3abn Jan. 2007 Letter Options

[Aletheia]

I wrote in another post about what my FIL did to me and to several others...one person did go to the police but no charges were pressed. That does not mean that those actions didn't happen. Since FIL was what they call "A man about town", let's just say the police were on his side.

I am very sorry for that, and while that may be true, it doesn't mean that was the case in West frankfort, or that the incident with Mr Dunning did happen as is claimed...

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Jan 27 2007, 10:41 PM

[ex3ABNemployee]

That may be true true, but it also doesn't mean ithe incident with Mr Dunning did happen...

Do you believe my statement?

[lookin4truth]

You apparently are confused about the difference between evidence and proven facts.
Evidence can be rebutted and shown or proven false. That's why the accused has a right to face his accusers, and witnesses have to identify themselves and are closely questioned. Brad Dunning claims he went to the police years ago, and they investigated and didn't press any charges..

I am not the least bit confused about Tommy Shelton. And I am seeing you more clearly all the time. When I first starting reading your posts, and all the questions you brought out, I thought you were honestly looking for answers. But over time, it has become very clear that you are doing nothing more than denying the facts you say are not there.

I know you will have some witty and oh so intelligent response. Don't bother. If I might take the liberty of quoting Clay

"...tiresome you are"

[Aletheia]

Ok, Alethia... The "members in the pews", including my mom, my aunt, and other people that send in monthly checks, people that that will large portions of their assets to 3ABN and execute trust agreements with them need to be aware that there are at least some serious questions based on the publicly available information about 3ABN finances. This information includes erroneous court filings, documents that fail to state income, etc.

No, they are not stock holders or anything like that, but they may be suckers - additional victims if you please. A truly Christian organization should not need to hide behind legalistic interpretations to avoid truth or at least obscure it.

"may be suckers" and "may not be suckers"....

If what is claimed here is true, then 3ABN is acting criminally, and IF that is proven and they are charged, and found guilty, then those people you talk about will probably see the need to do as you say.


But to warn with evil surmisings, gossip and slander, and unproven accusations? That is not of God.
We are never called to issue those kind of warnings.

[ex3ABNemployee]

Boy, it's amazing how quiet some people get when asked a direct question.

Brad Dunning's statement revealed details I didn't know about until I read it here. According to Brad, he was told the EXACT same thing by Tommy that I was about his "medical condition." Brad and I have not talked since he left the Ezra school. If he's lying, that was still a pretty good trick to know the exact wording that was told to me, even though he hadn't asked me about it.

But then again, why deal with the facts?

This post has been edited by ex3ABNemployee: Jan 27 2007, 10:53 PM

[Clay]

That "members in the pews" statement shows your ignorance.

Donations aren't stocks, and church members aren't stockholders, as 3ABN is a ministry and not for profit. You have yet to prove how the accountant at 3ABN, and the auditors are all diots compared to you, how you have more information then they have, or how 3ABN does not have a check and balance system, and has at present no accountability.

They don't have to legally reveal all to the public, but they do have to legally reveal it to those who matter.

Your personal interpretation and opinion of their findings. is just that your personal findings and opinions.
You apparently are confused about the difference between evidence and proven facts.
Evidence can be rebutted and shown or proven false. That's why the accused has a right to face his accusers, and witnesses have to identify themselves and are closely questioned. Brad Dunning claims he went to the police years ago, and they investigated and didn't press any charges...

you have the nerve to suggest that someone is ignorant? While you might have been blessed with a brain, it is clear that it has not been used in some time...the content of your posts is nothing more than hot air looking for a place to escape..... lucky for you that bsda allows everyone to be heard no matter how ludicrous they are, or clueless they might be...

you remain tiresome.... totally...

[Aletheia]

I am not the least bit confused about Tommy Shelton. And I am seeing you more clearly all the time. When I first starting reading your posts, and all the questions you brought out, I thought you were honestly looking for answers. But over time, it has become very clear that you are doing nothing more than denying the facts you say are not there.

I know you will have some witty and oh so intelligent response. Don't bother. If I might take the liberty of quoting Clay

"...tiresome you are"

Well dude, that's because not finding answers here, I have tried to verify for myself (off this board)what has been posted here and am having some difficulty doing so. Have you bothered to do that, or is that tiresome also?

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Jan 27 2007, 10:53 PM

[Clay]

Well dude, that's because not finding answers here, I have tried to verify for myself what has been posted here and am having some difficulty doing so. Have you bothered to do that, or is that tiresome also?

you are having difficulty because in the words of my mother, "you don't have the mind of a duck...." Yet you continue to badger people who do have the info..... why are you here again? Oh that's right, you are a Danny apologist.... can't refute the message but maybe you can distract people from it....

totally tiresome... you are....

[lookin4truth]

Well dude, that's because not finding answers here, I have tried to verify for myself (off this board)what has been posted here and am having some difficulty doing so. Have you bothered to do that, or is that tiresome also?

Have you really tried to verify? Have you contacted Scott Clem? Roger Clem? Duane Clem? Brad Dunning?

I am sure it would not be to hard to do that. Duane is on this board all the time. Why don't you PM him and talk to him? Brad Dunning's contact info is on the web site. Why don't you ask him if the letter is real?

You go about saying you are verifying. If I remember correctly, it was you who said the title would not show void on it. It took me all of two minutes to find the documentation to prove that when copied, it would.

As I said, at first I thought you were truly seeking the facts.

[Aletheia]

QUOTE(Aletheia @ Jan 27 2007, 10:36 PM)

That may be true true, but it also doesn't mean ithe incident with Mr Dunning did happen...

Do you believe my statement?

I'm sorry, I don't know what statement you made, other then your login name.

You are a ex-3Abn employee from the church of God? and went to work with someone you are accusing of child abuse and the people you claim are covering for him? That seems weird, but I am listening.
What is your statement?

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Jan 27 2007, 11:12 PM

[husbandoftheyear]

Sex offenders are not supposed to work in any area where children are present.

But organizations hire them to work with children anyway. Any info on if they have a right to do that...legally. Since Bystander has already said, 3ABN knew Bill was a sex offender but hired him anyway because it was "only once" and he had repented...

[Clay]

QUOTE(Aletheia @ Jan 27 2007, 10:36 PM)

That may be true true, but it also doesn't mean ithe incident with Mr Dunning did happen...
I'm sorry, I don't know what staement you made, other then your login name.

You are a ex-3Abn employee from the church of God? and went to work with someone you are accusing of child abuse and the people you claim are covering for him? That seems weird, but I am listening.
What is your staement?

this comment proves it... you have not been paying attention... nor have you been seeking the truth.... if you had you would know who he was and what he said... it appears you are without a clue as well as tiresome...

[sonshineonme]

"may be suckers" and "may not be suckers"....

If what is claimed here is true, then 3ABN is acting criminally, and IF that is proven and they are charged, and found guilty, then those people you talk about will probably see the need to do as you say.
But to warn with evil surmisings, gossip and slander, and unproven accusations? That is not of God.
We are never called to issue those kind of warnings.

Alethia, I have read most of your posts. I think as a person just looking at what you ask, I would like to think you are doing just that - asking. But, some of your replies and comments back are saying more then just "well, I think there should be MORE proof" or "I dont know if I can accept it yet myself with just this amount of info" or maybe say NOTHING? - could be, you will have to WAIT till some boulder drops on your head and you feel the pain and see the rock in your living room for you to remove all doubt of what happend? I am not being sarcastic, but, if you have ever been on a jury(have you?) and you hear from the witnesses and other people who tell of other pieces that help you put a circumstancial situation together (and this is not all circimstantial I might add, there are concrete documents as well) to decide who is lieing and who isn't, you learn that there are many things you have to decide your conclusion on things that you can't see for yourself, but have to trust those giving testimony. We have common sense, brains and senses that come together to help us discern things. Now, this is not a court of law, this is true, but you came here. You choose to read, reply and discuss things. No one is forcing you. If you want to glean all you can, take what you get and wait for the rest to take place if you need more. Keep in mind; no one is going to spend time sitting here telling you of their "witness" or "testimoney" just for the fun of it. There are some SERIOUS issues going on that exist for a reason - and we can't simply say "it's the devil". Maybe I made it too simple. But like I said to you once before, keep it simple. Don't make it more complicated. And if you don't agree, say it once. Or don't say it, but if you are sincerely looking for truth and facts, you either take what you can find here or leave and look somewhere else. What you find here is what you get. You are in a sense chasing your tail.

[Aletheia]

Have you really tried to verify? Have you contacted Scott Clem? Roger Clem? Duane Clem? Brad Dunning?

I am sure it would not be to hard to do that. Duane is on this board all the time. Why don't you PM him and talk to him? Brad Dunning's contact info is on the web site. Why don't you ask him if the letter is real?

You go about saying you are verifying. If I remember correctly, it was you who said the title would not show void on it. It took me all of two minutes to find the documentation to prove that when copied, it would.

As I said, at first I thought you were truly seeking the facts.

No, I have not contacted any of the Clems, as i can't find them and no contact info has been given.


If Duane is on the board all the time, then perhaps you can identify him, or he will please contact me privately after reading this post?

I actually requested that sometime back on the forums.

Thank you.

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Jan 27 2007, 11:16 PM

[ex3ABNemployee]

QUOTE(Aletheia @ Jan 27 2007, 10:36 PM)

That may be true true, but it also doesn't mean ithe incident with Mr Dunning did happen...
I'm sorry, I don't know what staement you made, other then your login name.

You are a ex-3Abn employee from the church of God? and went to work with someone you are accusing of child abuse and the people you claim are covering for him? That seems weird, but I am listening.
What is your staement?

My name is Duane Clem. You know full well about my statement. I've seen you refer to it (and try to discredit it) in other posts.

I worked at 3ABN in the 80's, long before Tommy Shelton was employed there. Brad Dunning, as well as two other boys who have yet to come forward, told me Tommy had done exactly the same thing to them and he did me. If you choose to not believe me, that's your business. It doesn't change the facts, however.