Thompson Responds To Abrahamsen...., borrowed from Maritime Options

[watchbird]

After reading this thread (thanks watchbird) I have a new opinion: I think what Linda and her daughter did was hilarious (the joke), even if it wasn't wise. To have that kind of man in the house--always suspicious--is the very root of evil in a home. Education, last chapter I think, describes what happens when men are always looking out of the corner of their eye at their family. Dark clouds of doubt aways hanging overhead. What a horrible way to build trust. I still think God hadn't been in that marriage for some time.

You're welcome. Actually it's been awhile so I'm not sure how much is here either. I know there is some discussion elsewhere that helps paint a picture of how humor was used in their house... which also would be a factor in why she did what she did.

[Johann]

After reading this thread (thanks watchbird) I have a new opinion: I think what Linda and her daughter did was hilarious (the joke), even if it wasn't wise. To have that kind of man in the house--always suspicious--is the very root of evil in a home. Education, last chapter I think, describes what happens when men are always looking out of the corner of their eye at their family. Dark clouds of doubt aways hanging overhead. What a horrible way to build trust. I still think God hadn't been in that marriage for some time.

Danny Shelton once described what was going on between him and Linda as a spirituial warfare which he insisted he had a patent on understanding. I agreed with him that it was a spiritual warfare, but I feared that he was on the wrong side of the fence.

What you say here, Laurence, I believe is a truth that some people do not perceive. I noticed that God was no longer in that marriage as far as Danny was concerned already when we all - Danny, Linda, Tommy, and I travelled together through Europe several months before the break. Already then I breathed a prayer, Lord save this marriage! But a marriage needs two people to be in agreement to stay together.

This post has been edited by Johann: Feb 27 2007, 12:29 PM

[Clay]

Danny had NO grounds for divorce.... none biblically that is..... so he contrived a story and some people have believed it from day one.... However the fact remains.... he had NO grounds for divorce....

[Johann]

More than a year ago this was posted. This time I have put my comments in itallics. They are just as true today as they were last year. Nobody has been able to refute any of what I said then.

(I happened to be perusing the threads on CA and Maritime and saw this letter in both places, but not here so I borrowed it...)
Below is a form letter Dr. Walther Thompson is sending out as a reaction to Dr. Arild Abrahamsen's document. You will find my comments in italics in between.

Dear 3abn friends,

I have maintained from the beginning that we have not seen Linda and the doctor in bed together. If that is the only legitimate designation of adultry, then we have no proof that adultery has been involved. Dr. Abrahamsen claims in his e mail that he has "never committed adultery, (emotional, physical, "spiritual"), and neither has Linda." If all of the things Dr. Abrahamsen talked about in his letter were true, than I would have to put some weight on this claim. Unfortunately, he has made many inaccurate statements and accusations about not only Danny, but Pastor Lomacang, Elder Denslow, Brenda Walsh, Kay Kuzma, myself and others. I know they are inaccurate because I was there to witness them. For this reason, I must question his other claims as well. I must ask you again, is it right for a woman to spend hours at a time secretely on the phone with another man - even if as claimed, they concerned her son? - when we have good evidence that her son was a peripheral matter, if at all.
[Johann Thorvaldsson]I was there too. . . see down below. . .

Is it right for a married woman to purchase a pregnancy test kit when she knows her husband is sterilized?

[Johann Thorvaldsson] This statement is ridiculous. Danny went into another woman's room, where he had no business, searching through a shopping bag where he found this pregnancy test. Looks like he needed so badly some evidence against Linda that he got a pregnancy test that he found in another woman's quarter, and then proclaimed to the whole world that now he had the proof!
Is it OK for one's wife to make plans to visit her doctor to spent time together seeing the sights of his homeland - a trip that was later made?

[Johann Thorvaldsson] When were these plans made and when did such a trip occur? Walt is really mixing up his chronology of events in this case, and this he has done frequently during this whole process

I have followed Linda's coming and going ever since 2003, and when did she make a trip together with Dr. Abrahamsen just to see the sights of his homeland? Be careful what statements you make, Walt! Irmgard tried to arrange a trip where Linda could see more of Norway, but Linda never went until Linda traveled to Bergen to attend Irmgard's funeral in August 2005. Such plans were never made while Danny and Linda were married.

Watch your chronology of events, Walt!

And what about other travel tickets that were purchased - even though the doctor claims no contacts were made?

[Johann Thorvaldsson] Are you referring to the tickets Mrs. Brenda Walsh bought? How can you blame Linda for Brenda making such travel plans? Watch your details, and chronology, Walt!

Is it proper for one's doctor to give his patient a nice wrist watch?

[Johann Thorvaldsson] Another ridiculous statement. In Scandinavia it is a custom to give one's hostess a gift. So Danny made the claim this was a sign of an engagement, claiming that this was a very expensive watch that Arild had given Linda. Now Walt merely calls it "nice"!

Arild and I received a catalog of things available on the aircraft. There was a rather cheap double-faced watch which interested Arild because it showed two time zones at the same time. So Arild bought it. Later we visited Linda and she gave us some tasty meals at Alyssa's place. So Arild gave Linda this watch as a token of our appreciation for her hospitality. I'm not sure Linda liked that watch very much. It really is not that "nice" and I have never seen her wearing it. But what methods doesn't a man use when he so desperately needs some proof that he has the right to divorce his wife?

Or to make a major loan of thousands of dollars?

[Johann Thorvaldsson] Another ridiculous statement. The gist of it is this: When Danny chased Linda out of their home, Linda bought a mobile home in Carbondale. I was there after she bought it. Elsewhere Walt has made reference to how nicely Danny treated Linda then, helping her improve the house, etc. If Danny had really wanted Linda back, why was he anxious she should move to Carbondale? And why did Danny lend Linda the money to buy this mobile home, if he really wanted to save their marriage? And what was Danny really doing in her house?

There were strong indications Danny made those installations merely to place hidden mikes at her place. Linda discovered evidence that these mikes were hidden around her. Danny wrote me e-mails where he bragged about how kind he was to Linda during this period, he even brought her flowers. . . This is what Danny told others as a play for the gallery. I had several talks with Linda during this period, and I sensed she was horrified at his brutality towards her. I called Walt and asked him if he would take the responsibility for Danny's actions, but he ridiculed me. This showed again that neither Walt nor any others of the counselors would listen to any signals Linda tried to give them. They were all in Danny's pocket.

Linda felt Carbondale was too close for comfort because she was constantly harassed by Danny there. And Alyssa was moving out of the apartment for students as she finished college. So Linda found a comfortable house in Springfield. Her main problem was that Walt and Danny had fired her, and without employment it was impossible for her to get a loan. Neither did she have any health insurance after she was fired, but Walt did not care as long as Danny got his will and a divorce.

Don't forget that Linda did not move to Springfield until September, and Danny succeeded in getting his divorce in June, and Brandy moved to Thompsonville shortly after that. Here an educated Christian steeps so low as to state that because a friend helps her got a loan to buy a home three months after her divorce, then she is unfaithful to her husband!!! And that this justifies the evil actions of that Board!!!

I thought timing was important in surgery, but I dare not risk my life having surgery done by a physician with no sense of chronology!!!
If these things are acceptable behavior for a wife, then perhaps our board has acted improperly. If, on the other hand you would not want your spouse doing these things, then I submit that Danny has grounds for doing what he has done.

[Johann Thorvaldsson] Only a psychopath could convince the board that Linda's behavior was unacceptable.

The Dr. calls Danny a psychopath. It might be understandable if a non professional person made this kind of a statement, but if Danny is anything, he definitely is not a psychopath.

[Johann Thorvaldsson] Walt's words could be stated by a person who is under the spell of a psychopath - and this, according to the experts - is a typical case.

The Dr. says that Linda never met with the small committee of the board. This is a blatantly false statement. He also said pastor Lomocang did not meet with Linda "during April and May" - possibly a correct statement because Linda had already written the pastor off. He had met with both he and Linda singly and together before that). We all met with her, but I will add this. A number of other meetings were sought, but were refused, postponed or canceled by Linda.

[Johann Thorvaldsson] At least you agree that this is true for the months of April and May. When else should the counseling have taken place?

I have a video tape of the live program in Green Bay where Linda told about her "new found friend." I don't think I ever referred to this as mind control.

[Johann Thorvaldsson] I'd like to see your copy of that video tape. Again, I think your chronology is rather faulty. Was this really a live program? I watched that program from Green Bay too, and I watched the hatred in Danny's eyes, and I heard the false statements he made in his so-called sermon!

The words you quote were not, as far as I recall, made in Green Bay. You must be referring to a cooking program where Linda appeared and used similar expressions, but where she never said what Danny and 3ABN now claims she said. That is pure manipulation of facts, and not very Christ-like to produce such things as a base for having Linda condemned by your Board.

Yes, we were anxious to help Linda.

[Johann Thorvaldsson] why didn't you, then? Why did you only listen to Danny and not to Linda? I spoke to you at that time, and I saw no signs in your expressions then that you were willing to listen to Linda!

The letter that I sent to her by registered mail when she was no longer responding to phone calls or e mails requested her to spend a month with some counselor acceptable by both her and us. She did not respond to that letter.

[Johann Thorvaldsson] Why? Because Linda had not experienced that any of you were willing to listen to her side of the story. You were just deaf ears, because you knew that Danny would dislike it if you listened to her. This is why you all labeled her a liar.

I also saw the conditions you proposed to Linda at that time. You merely gave her the opportunity to accept the counselor you had prepared for her. The whole program smelled like brainwashing sessions. All that Danny wanted - and I have letters from him that show his sentiments - was for someone to manipulate Linda so that she would admit she had committed adultery, because Danny wanted, as he stated to me, Biblical grounds to marry another woman, something he now has done.

The doctor has labeled statements such as these as slander and ungodly. I don't think it is slander to speak truth, and we have not done anything with the intent to hurt Linda in any way. When people have come to us with questions we have tried to respond intelligently and factually.

[Johann Thorvaldsson] Calling falsehood truth is nothing but slander. If you did not intend to hurt Linda, why did you? Is that being honest?

This letter does not speak to many of Dr. Abrahamsen's statements, but I hope I have touched on enough to demonstrate that 3abn has earnestly and honestly tried to do things right in this difficult situation. I, for one have made every effort to follow the leading of the Spirit of God in the things I have been responsible for. I believe God's continued blessing on this ministry confirms our decisions, as difficult as they have been. For my part, I know Linda is hurting.

[Johann Thorvaldsson] And whose responsibility is that?

It is not because she was not forewarned - by a number of people who cared for her.
[Johann Thorvaldsson] How can you claim such evil actions are based on care?

We still care about Linda and those who have sided with her in this time. All remain in my prayers.

May God give you wisdom and understanding as you come to your own conclusions about this challenge to 3ABN.

Sincerely in Jesus' precious name,

Walter Thompson MD
[Johann Thorvaldsson]I'd hesitate stamping your evil actions with the name of my Savior. The angels must be weeping because of what you have done to Linda.

========

This post has been edited by Johann: Aug 31 2007, 03:56 AM

[panther]

You mean "no one can refute" your statements like this?

"This statement is ridiculous"

"Another ridiculous statement."

"Only a psychopath could convince the board"

"Walt's words could be stated by a person who is under the spell of a psychopath"

"I think your chronology is rather faulty"

NO ONE wants to refute these statements Johann because they are ONLY your OPINION and nothing more!!!

[Johann]

You mean "no one can refute" your statements like this?

"This statement is ridiculous"

"Another ridiculous statement."

"Only a psychopath could convince the board"

"Walt's words could be stated by a person who is under the spell of a psychopath"

"I think your chronology is rather faulty"

NO ONE wants to refute these statements Johann because they are ONLY your OPINION and nothing more!!!

In each case I gave my reason from my own experience. That has nothing to do with opinion. But you only quote the opening words, and not the arguments. Is that being fair? In whose eyes?

[Johann]

Ask yourself how you would know if there were outright lies or truth in Kay Kuzma’s statement. You were not present any more than I was. Definitely someone is lying, but it is very doubtful it is Kay Kuzma. Even if her character would allow her to lie, I very much doubt she would risk her professional life doing it and especially in this instance. She has no personal involvement in the outcome. Maybe you should be questioning the person or persons who told you the statement had outright lies. Do they have a personal involvement in the outcome?

Dona

Was my wording too blunt? In that telephone conversation Kay was very open to me. She was so open that she even told me that certain people at 3ABN might not approve of her telling me all those things. She gave me some excellent insights of what was going on in the ongoing process. She seemed eager to be able to share the heavy burden that lay on her heart. She told me what she was supposed to do, and what she could not not touch.

The information she gave me at that point was shocking to me. She and her husband and my wife and I had shared several very pleasant moments together at 3ABN and at the hospital where our spouses were treated or examined. For the time being I did not disclose what Kay told me about the assignment in connection with Linda.

It was when Linda's world collapsed I realized how they had been using Kay in a futile attempt to get things to fit together. Then I collected my notes on the phone conversation, and saw how the puzzle was made up. So I wrote the statement to reveal what I had experienced.

It was no surprise to me that Kay had to deny what she had told me earlier. Now 3ABN had to use legal terms to divert the attention away from the facts of what had happened. Perhaps a legal expert helped Kay formulate that letter you posted? It reminds of the legal terms in dispute used in connections with the Joy/Pickle lawsuit. What is the truth?

Kay stated one thing in her phone conversation, and in the letter she really did not quite deny what I had said about our phone conversation, but she tries to divert the attention in another direction? Cold you call this circumventing the truth?

Now let me point out just a few of the false statements in her letter:

Dear Calvin,

I have become aware that your site published Johann Thorvaldsson's article about "The Story of Linda Shelton."

Since I am mentioned in that article, I thought you might be interested in publishing a response to correct the misinformation given about my involvement.

If you need to call me, my # is xxx-xxx-xxxx.

Thank you.
Kay Kuzma

Here is my statement:

To those who may question my involvement with 3ABN and the circumstances which led up to Linda Shelton leaving 3ABN:

Yes, I was involved in what happened at 3ABN concerning Linda however the internet article in which you read about my involvement titled "The Story of Linda Shelton" by Johann Thorvaldsson, is saturated with the writer's biased personal perceptions and has very little to do with what actually happened. I was there – I know.

Rather than address each falsehood, which would be too time consuming, I will simply address the three major errors concerning me:

Here is what was printed about me: "Long before Linda's dismissal, Dr. Kay Kuzma was assigned to help Linda manage after being fired. She was also supposed to interview staff members to find a good reason to fire her, so one wonders what really is behind this upheaval?"

Here is what actually happened:

1) I was not brought in early – in fact, I was brought in during the last six weeks after Danny and Linda had been in months of counseling with professionals – with Linda still refusing to follow what the counselors suggested, i.e., unanimously the counselors told her that she would have to give up her relationship with the doctor in Norway who she was spending up to six hours each day talking with.

Johann responding:

a) Six weeks is long time when you are in a critical situation.

Linda had not been in months of counseling with professional. This is a false statements.

c) Which professional counselors had told her after months of counseling what to do? This statement is not accurate.


2) I was not brought in to help Linda "manage" after she was fired – she was never fired. The committee I was on (and later the Board) repeatedly gave her opportunity to talk with them trying to bring resolution and restoration to both her ministry at 3ABN and her marriage. She refused at every point. There was never discussion concerning "firing" Linda when I became involved – only a discussion on how to help her. There was such a concern for Linda's reputation that the entire Board was not initially notified about the situation until it became an absolute necessity to do so. I was on a small committee of two Board members, the 3ABN attorney, and myself. The small committee's discussion centered on how to save Linda for ministry. Linda talked to me one time and refused any further contact I tried to make with her.

Johann:

a) Kay told me on the phone that one of her assignments was to get Linda ready to live apart from 3ABN. Did Kay not use the term "manage"? At least the meaning was there.

Despite what Kay stated here, Linda was fired.

c) What the committee and the board offered Linda is disputed. I had frequent conversations with Linda during this time, and she never felt they - and in particular Danny - gave her any other choice than to admit that she had committed adultery, and the case should be treated as such. Remember that Linda was also under constant pressure from Danny, and it is understandable that it was often difficult for her to distinguish what Danny was saying and what the committee was telling her.



- - -
Sincerely,
Kay Kuzma

When was Kay telling the truth? When I talked to her on the phone or when she wrote this?

What makes you claim that I was no more there than you were? Were you there to check if I was? How can you then bear witness to what you do not know?


This post has been edited by Johann: Aug 31 2007, 10:59 AM

[Aletheia]

In each case I gave my reason from my own experience. That has nothing to do with opinion. But you only quote the opening words, and not the arguments. Is that being fair? In whose eyes?

Ok, you want someone to address your claims? Let's start here:

[Walt Thompson]
Is it OK for one's wife to make plans to visit her doctor to spent time together seeing the sights of his homeland - a trip that was later made?

[Johann Thorvaldsson] When were these plans made and when did such a trip occur? Walt is really mixing up his chronology of events in this case, and this he has done frequently during this whole process

I have followed Linda's coming and going ever since 2003, and when did she make a trip together with Dr. Abrahamsen just to see the sights of his homeland? Be careful what statements you make, Walt! Irmgard tried to arrange a trip where Linda could see more of Norway, but Linda never went until Linda traveled to Bergen to attend Irmgard's funeral in August 2005

When?

A little more than two years ago a live television program aired on 3abn from Green Bay, Wisconsin. During that program Linda told of meeting a special person that had changed her life. She did not give the name or the sex of that person, but we later learned that he was listening in Norway. A few months earlier, a doctor visited 3ABN from Norway. He found out about Linda's son being hooked on drugs and told Linda that if he would come to his place in Norway for a month, he would be cured. Arrangements were made and Nathan went there in Feb. 04. While there Linda and one of her closest friends went to visit and spent 3 days with them. During this time Linda and the doctor struck up a relationship that her friend became very concerned about, and eventually came to the place where she decided she needed to speak out. I have heard that testimony. I will not describe it in detail, but it was described as much more than the usual doctor - client relationship. One of the things was that Linda had made arrangements to meet the doctor in Norway to spend 10 days with him touring the pretty places in the country during the following June.

http://references4links.blogspot.com/2007/...-questions.html

Johann did you forget that Linda flew to Norway the summer of 2004, twice? The first immediatly following the divorce in June? Just as she had planned beforehand?

Did you forget save3abn published Linda's letter to Danny while there saying she needed that time to travel?

Did you forget you yourself admitted that to wwjd on this forum?

Did you forget save3ABn published the letters to you from Danny explaining that Linda had just spent the last couple of weeks with the Doctor and you didn't bother telling him that wasn't true because you had followed her comings and goings since 2003??

Did you forget save3ABN published the letter from Danny to Linda regarding her wanting to move the furniture when she returned from Europe and that it states she had spent 5 out of the past 8 weeks with the Doctor?

Need the links and references or do you remember now?

I do think that living 8 hrs away from the Doctor as you did, that you were probably not with them there at all times, or when they traveled, is that correct?

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Aug 31 2007, 12:42 PM

[princessdi]

I am trying my best to figure out why you are questioning someone who is/was involved, and knows everyone involved. You weren't there for anything and don't know a soul. How can you question him like that? His version owuld be more credible than yours on all points, especially since you claim nobody told you anything, you just "know" all this information.

Ok, you want someone to address your claims? Let's start here:
When?
Johann did you forget that Linda flew to Norway the summer of 2004, twice? The first immediatly following the divorce in June? Just as she had planned beforehand?

Did you forget save3abn published Linda's letter to Danny while there saying she needed that time to travel?

Did you forget you yourself admitted that to wwjd on this forum?

Did you forget save3ABn published the letters to you from Danny explaining that Linda had just spent the last couple of weeks with the Doctor and you didn't bother telling him that wasn't true because you had followed her comings and goings since 2003??

Did you forget save3ABN published the letter from Danny to Linda regarding her wanting to move the furniture when she returned from Europe and that it states she had spent 5 out of the past 8 weeks with the Doctor?

Need the links and references or do you remember now?

I do think that living 8 hrs away from the Doctor as you did, that you were probably not with them there at all times, or when they traveled, is that correct?

[Pickle]

Aletheia,

Johann appears to be talking about when Linda went to Norway to see the sights of the place, rather than just going to Norway. I noticed the discrepancy too, and that's how I took it.

So did she go sightseeing around Norway prior to when Johann says that she did? That is the question.

[Aletheia]

Aletheia,

Johann appears to be talking about when Linda went to Norway to see the sights of the place, rather than just going to Norway. I noticed the discrepancy too, and that's how I took it.

So did she go sightseeing around Norway prior to when Johann says that she did? That is the question.

So what are you saying? Linda herself told Danny in a letter published on save3ABN she was travelling.

You're saying she's wrong and No, that didn't happen, she simply stayed with the Doctor for 5 out of 8 weeks?

what!?

[ex3ABNemployee]

I am trying my best to figure out why you are questioning someone who is/was involved, and knows everyone involved. You weren't there for anything and don't know a soul. How can you question him like that? His version owuld be more credible than yours on all points, especially since you claim nobody told you anything, you just "know" all this information.

Di, Cindy isn't interested in first-hand accounts, or even facts for that matter. She just wants exoneration for Danny, Tommy or anyone else involved with 3ABN. The very idea she would dare question Johann is laughable.

[Pickle]

So what are you saying? Linda herself told Danny in a letter published on save3ABN she was travelling.

Travelling to Norway and travelling around Norway are not necessarily the same thing. That was my point.

[Johann]

Ok, you want someone to address your claims? Let's start here:
When?
Johann did you forget that Linda flew to Norway the summer of 2004, twice? The first immediatly following the divorce in June? Just as she had planned beforehand?

Did you forget save3abn published Linda's letter to Danny while there saying she needed that time to travel?

Did you forget you yourself admitted that to wwjd on this forum?

Did you forget save3ABn published the letters to you from Danny explaining that Linda had just spent the last couple of weeks with the Doctor and you didn't bother telling him that wasn't true because you had followed her comings and goings since 2003??

Did you forget save3ABN published the letter from Danny to Linda regarding her wanting to move the furniture when she returned from Europe and that it states she had spent 5 out of the past 8 weeks with the Doctor?

Need the links and references or do you remember now?

I do think that living 8 hrs away from the Doctor as you did, that you were probably not with them there at all times, or when they traveled, is that correct?

All you do is twisting my words and putting your own interpretation into them. Try for once to read what I say. Since y9u will not do that I cen merely ignore your strange utterances.

[Rosyroi]

Re: discussion about Linda doing foolish things like buying a pg test to let Danny find....

In the past, while working, when I was under a lot of stress for some time and I was told not to do a certain thing, I would end up doing that which I was told NOT to do. Not that I wanted to, I just did it. I have done that so many times. It is very embarrassing.

JMHO
Rosyroi

This post has been edited by Rosyroi: Aug 31 2007, 09:58 PM