Tommy Shelton Vindicated!, I hope. Options

[PeacefulBe]

The Conference in which I live has a convicted child molester as a member of one it it's congregations. He went to prison. He has served his time. He has been discharged.

He tells people:

I did it.

I was guilty.

It was wrong.

I could do it again.

I should not be around children.

You should supervise me at all times when I am either attending church functions, or on church property.

Folks, that man is as close to a cure as I have seen. Yet, he is not cured. But, he has taken responsibility. He has accepted his need to be supervised so that he does not offend again.

And, the congregation has accepted the responsibility to supervise him.

This is called accountability. While not cured it is the only way to limit the likelihood of him reoffending. It gives the parents and fellow church family members the knowledge they need to protect their children.

Interestingly enough, without this frank openness and lack of accountablility it is likely that more would be victimized.

OK I'll bite. Some families are so dysfunctional that clear boundaries have never been in place. The wall has been broken down between acceptable adult/child love and sexual love. Once this wall is broken down, it is hard to rebuild. In such a home, actions that seem abhorrent to most of us are no big deal. It is here that the larger community will have to put on appropriate pressure to get results.

Ralph, how true this is! And we, here on the 3abn forum, are part of that larger community so we can't be silent.

[sister]

OK I'll bite. Some families are so dysfunctional that clear boundaries have never been in place. The wall has been broken down between acceptable adult/child love and sexual love. Once this wall is broken down, it is hard to rebuild. In such a home, actions that seem abhorrent to most of us are no big deal. It is here that the larger community will have to put on appropriate pressure to get results.

With my knowledge of the Shelton family, I would say the above explanation is the situation that exists there and why such abhorrent actions of one family member is so easily tolerated by other family members. Clear boundaries that should exist within a family are not present there and the same dysfunctional attitudes have been carried over into the administration of 3ABN: a Shelton family business with dysfunctional Shelton family "values", in my opinion.

[Clay]

there is no cure for pedophilia.... I stated that before..... talk therapy will not work... there are some things chemically that could be done but that would have to be in conjunction with strict accountability, i.e. knowing where the person was all the time, knowing who he was talking to, etc....

[PrincessDrRe]

Got a lot to speak on so let me get started....

I wasn't a member here when you first asked but here is what I would have answered: I would never let someone I didn't know babysit for me. Period!

...but see that's the main point. Many folks "claim" to "know" Tommy Shelton - and don't realize that he is a molestor. A child rapist! That being said.... well...you know the question.....

simplysaved, isn't it generally believed that pedophiles are not very good candidates for therapy in that they seldom if ever get over thier sexual preferences? From what I have heard and read, it is very predictable that they will offend again even after long periods of incarceration, and supposedly, counseling within the CJ system or places like state hospitals. What is your view on that?

For the most part pedophiles and child molesters rarely get over their obsession w/ children and sexual relationships w/ children. They are the hardest to "rehabilitate" per se.....

OK I'll bite. Some families are so dysfunctional that clear boundaries have never been in place. The wall has been broken down between acceptable adult/child love and sexual love. Once this wall is broken down, it is hard to rebuild. In such a home, actions that seem abhorrent to most of us are no big deal. It is here that the larger community will have to put on appropriate pressure to get results.

True...so true.

The Conference in which I live has a convicted child molester as a member of one it it's congregations. He went to prison. He has served his time. He has been discharged.

He tells people:

I did it.

I was guilty.

It was wrong.

I could do it again.

I should not be around children.

You should supervise me at all times when I am either attending church functions, or on church property.

Folks, that man is as close to a cure as I have seen. Yet, he is not cured. But, he has taken responsibility. He has accepted his need to be supervised so that he does not offend again.

And, the congregation has accepted the responsibility to supervise him.

...and that is the ultimate form of "responsibility" that I have ever heard of from a convicted child molestor. To admit that he must be supervised....that says that it's still in his heart. He may not be "acting" on it...but he knows that it's there...and that's way deep....

I know someone who had, I think, a good Christian counselor for a particular issue, and later had someone who perhaps caused a good bit of difficulty, or at least didn't help things any, resulting in a lot of grief.

Anyone who studies a bit of Freud, who, if I recall correctly, thought God was a volcano, can understand why Ellen White wrote the warnings she did about psychology. Yet not everyone who has the title of psychologist has a mind that is in the gutter like Freud's was.

Freud is not as "twisted" as folks may believe. They look at his beliefs about attraction to mother/father and not the "whole" picture. Freud studied the Bible more than many a SDA has (he was documented as reading the Bible 5+ times front to back and a deep "studier" of the word).

Everything that everyone writes is not to be followed at all times. Everything that Freud writes is not to be followed; however he had plenty good to discuss in regards to Psychotherapy and Psychotherapeutic interventions.

As for EG White's "warnings" about Psychology; psychology is not just "tell me your thoughts" - Psychology is also the discussion of why you feel the way you feel, why you are having trouble getting over the fact that you saw your Mommy kill your sister, and how do you cope with the death of your Father. You can pray. Yeah - you sure can. However the Bible also states to "consider/go to the physician"...which is what I will be upon finishing my studies, a Doctor of Psychology.

there is no cure for pedophilia.... I stated that before..... talk therapy will not work... there are some things chemically that could be done but that would have to be in conjunction with strict accountability, i.e. knowing where the person was all the time, knowing who he was talking to, etc....

Again - just as above...I agree.

Carry on!

[Observer]

there is no cure for pedophilia.... I stated that before..... talk therapy will not work... there are some things chemically that could be done but that would have to be in conjunction with strict accountability, i.e. knowing where the person was all the time, knowing who he was talking to, etc....

Chemical castration (or physical) will not solve the problems. Sexuality begins in the brain. The brain remains the same following castration.

Folks: You do not need genitalia to molest a child.

[Clay]

Chemical castration (or physical) will not solve the problems. Sexuality begins in the brain. The brain remains the same following castration.

Folks: You do not need genitalia to molest a child.

I did not say chemical castration will solve the problem... I said there are some things that can be done chemically IN CONJUNCTION with strict accountability... having said that there are some meds that would indeed block some of those receptors in the brain and dampen the sex drive... which is one of the reasons some people prefer not to take meds for some psychiatric problems because the unwanted side effect is sex drive dampening...

[Aunt B]

Molestation is not only about the act of penetration. It is about the sexual preying on of a child. Although it may not be called "molestation" out and out - Molestation has many different forms. If an adult asks a child to masturbate them; that's a form of molestation. If an adult masturbates and forces a child to watch; that's a form of molestation If an adult asks a child to look at a pornagraphic magazine with them; that is a form of molestation. If an adult just brushes up against a child for sexual gratification (frotteurism) that is a form of molestation.

Molestation goes way, WAY farther than just sex with a child. ...and many of the acts may seem "innocent" to others but are just as damaging as actual penetration sex.

Can I be next in line after Peaceful? I recently earned my bachelors degree in psychology; good for you for working on your Phd. I appreciate all you are saying here regarding counseling, therapy etc. Keep educating people regarding the science of psychology!

I see the results of molestation of children every day. As one who works with children who are in treatment foster care, almost 100% have been molested in some way. I have known of situations where the perpetrator didn't think he had done anything wrong, because there was no penetration. (a different situation than the rationalization that there had been "no touching" in the Walt Thompson letter) It is hard, long work to help these kids to heal.

Aunt B

[inga]

The aspect of "self-disclosure" does not weaken others - if you have ever been in a church that has a "Witness" section of service - people will talk about how the "LORD blessed them when they were in their lowest state." That's not weakening anyone...that is giving glory to GOD!

Yes, indeed!

When you have "been through" and can discuss with someone how you "came through" and show them through coping skills, helps, and prayer how they can come through that is COUNSELING and there is nothing ethically or morally wrong with that. The actual admittance of your own short-comings assists people in realizing that they are not alone and they too can make it out of their despair.

As administrator of several online support lists, I can vouch for that. It is amazing to see how such a little thing as just knowing that others are having the same struggle can actually be liberating.

Another thing I've observed is that admitting the exact nature of a problem, rather than denying it, is also liberating. Then it's possible to actually deal with the problem behavior, rather than spending all one's energy on suppression and denail.

My LORD. I hope you are not counseling ANYONE feeling that you are so above them that you cannot share of yourself to assist in their struggles....

Indeed!!! It sounds to me as though Ed White considers his preachy advice as "counseling." I don't see that as counseling at all. Furthermore, I see it as unlikely to help anyone. Genuine sharing by a lay person is likely to do more good than all the preaching from one who takes the position of being superior to the one in need.

[Ed White]

Though usually not nearly as quickly as those who stand in need of it and are in denial of that fact...

In His service,
Mr. J

There is no question Mr. J. that Tommy Shelton needs help, but maybe him & his brother have been looking for love in all the wrong places all these years. Black Hills could help if those counselors trained wrong don't get in the way to true lasting healing.

[awesumtenor]

There is no question Mr. J. that Tommy Shelton needs help, but maybe him & his brother have been looking for love in all the wrong places all these years. Black Hills could help if those counselors trained wrong don't get in the way to true lasting healing.

You presume I am speaking of the Sheltons... and in doing so, you err... They are not the only ones who could benefit from counseling... nor are they the only ones in denial about it.

In His service,
Mr. J

[simplysaved]

Ed:

Until there are present charges placed through the courts there will be little humanly possible to be done.

Prayer and faith are the only ways to handle this for now.

There is no question Mr. J. that Tommy Shelton needs help, but maybe him & his brother have been looking for love in all the wrong places all these years. Black Hills could help if those counselors trained wrong don't get in the way to true lasting healing.

[Clay]

this thread was split, the posts that dealt with counseling have been moved to the Cafe....

[husbandoftheyear]

It might be interesting to note that Tommy will be back at 3ABN in a couple of weeks to tape music with Dan. That took a long time!

[Ozzie]

It might be interesting to note that Tommy will be back at 3ABN in a couple of weeks to tape music with Dan. That took a long time!

Wonder why I'm not surprised???? Things go on, just as before.

[Fran]

Wonder why I'm not surprised???? Things go on, just as before.

This is sick!