More Newbies Coming!, Let's be kind to them and patient ... Options

[inga]

So far proof has "not been released" against Linda. Has it ever occured to any of you (I know it hasn't because this would put a positive light on 3ABN) that they have tried to avoid doing that, maybe to the extreme, because of hurting the innocent individuals that are involved. Children, families, friends, ect.

Oh, please!! This has been the Danny line from Day 1, being published on the 3ABN web site! After all the trashing that has been done and is still being done, do you still expect us to buy that?

As was posted here before, there is no way that certain information could have been posted here without coming directly from Linda. I have been told by people that worked closely with her that certain snippets and pieces of conversation that they had with her alone have appeared here and other places only with lots of fiction added to it.

Ah, so you are verifying that the information here is accurate, except (your words)
"certain fiction being added."

Did it ever occur to you that some of these things might have been shared by Linda before any of this happened? Did it ever occur to you that some might have overheard? Did it occur to you that what Linda has shared in the past is being used on this website right now without her necessarily being aware of it? Privately, posters have shared that Linda refuses to visit this forum or any other. She has occasionally answered questions, and the answers have been attributed to her. That does not make her responsible for the bulk of the things being posted here. Not to mention that such responsibility would make her a true Superwoman.

Many of you are Linda's friends and would not want to hurt her. That makes me wonder about the constant requests and pushing for "proof" against her.

I am not one of Linda's friends. I have made my own judgments based on what I have seen/heard Dan & supporters say and what I have seen of evidence on this forum. As I understand it Linda is wanting complete transparency. She wants everything out in the open!

But, no one is perfect

And neither is Linda. I think it's unwise to push that Linda was never emotionally drawn to the doctor or that she never had any conversations with him that were not about Nathan. Only Linda knows what her actual thoughts and feelings were. But that does not constitute grounds for divorce.

I do not agree with you that there could even be a question. If any of the allegations directed at TommyS. are true she could not have been in the family for 20 years without knowing.

Whoa there!! A victim's own mother did not know for nearly that long, and you say that Linda should have known!!! That Danny knew has been demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt, but can you prove that he told Linda about it?

Of course, I don't know that Linda didn't know. But to say that she must have known is taking a big leap.

[husbandoftheyear]

Whoa there!! A victim's own mother did not know for nearly that long, and you say that Linda should have known!!! That Danny knew has been demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt, but can you prove that he told Linda about it?

Of course, I don't know that Linda didn't know. But to say that she must have known is taking a big leap.

Yes, I agree with you, Inga. Isn't this what we ask ourselves everytime that we hear of a parent or step-parent abusing a child. Don't we say "The other parent should have known?" I know I do. But it isn't the case much of the time...

[awesumtenor]

PB,

The Lord healed me years ago... I was speaking of what I have learned and what i went through in the past tense. You might re-read what I wrote.

You like to believe so... but your reactions and statements tell a different story.

Mr J knows me not, and has nothing to judge me on except what I myself wrote, since he conttradicts what I myself said, how can he be correct? And how could you let him tell you about me and base your opnion on his judgment and statements about me?!?

Exactly; I have nothing to discern from save your statements... and out of the abundance of your heart your mouth speaks. I haven't contradicted what you said, Cindy; *you* have. I have simply weighed you in the same balance in which you have tried to weigh others... and you keep being found wanting. How could she let me tell her about you? She didn't... you tell everyone about you every time you open your mouth... and I have only stated what is seen when you do that; the fact that others see exactly what I do without our having had any conversation about you whatsoever speaks volumes.

This is a big problem on this forum.

It's only a problem to you when you are on the receiving end... when you are the one making judgements and presumptions of guilt or innocence about people you admit you don't know and have not met, you have no problem with it... and what's sauce for the goose...

In His service,
Mr. J

[Observer]

Oh, please!! This has been the Danny line from Day 1, being published on the 3ABN web site! After all the trashing that has been done and is still being done, do you still expect us to buy that? Ah, so you are verifying that the information here is accurate, except (your words)
"certain fiction being added."

Did it ever occur to you that some of these things might have been shared by Linda before any of this happened? Did it ever occur to you that some might have overheard? Did it occur to you that what Linda has shared in the past is being used on this website right now without her necessarily being aware of it? Privately, posters have shared that Linda refuses to visit this forum or any other. She has occasionally answered questions, and the answers have been attributed to her. That does not make her responsible for the bulk of the things being posted here. Not to mention that such responsibility would make her a true Superwoman. I am not one of Linda's friends. I have made my own judgments based on what I have seen/heard Dan & supporters say and what I have seen of evidence on this forum. As I understand it Linda is wanting complete transparency. She wants everything out in the open! And neither is Linda. I think it's unwise to push that Linda was never emotionally drawn to the doctor or that she never had any conversations with him that were not about Nathan. Only Linda knows what her actual thoughts and feelings were. But that does not constitute grounds for divorce.
Whoa there!! A victim's own mother did not know for nearly that long, and you say that Linda should have known!!! That Danny knew has been demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt, but can you prove that he told Linda about it?

Of course, I don't know that Linda didn't know. But to say that she must have known is taking a big leap.

Inga:

You have made several important points.

Linda has been so trashed that she feels that she has nothing to lose. Yes, she will likely be revealed as human, and imperfect. But, none of use who support her have deified her. She wants the whole truth to come out into the open. People can then make up their minds about her. She is willing to accept that. So are we.

Yes, Linda likely considered Dr. A. to be a friend of hers. I think it likely that any mother who had an addicted son, would consider the physician helping her son to overcome his addiction would consider that doctor to be a friend. She probably had other friends who were male. Johann may have been one. But, for a married female to have a male friend is not grounds for divorce. Danny likely had female friends. Such would not be grounds for divorce. The grounds for a divorce rest in relationships. The standard for a Biblical divorce, as accepted by conservative Adventists is physical adultery. That is the question for both Danny and Linda. If Linda committed physical adultery than Danny had Biblical grounds to divorce her. Both Danny and Dr. Thompson has stated that they do not have proof that she did such. If Danny committed physical adultery, then Linda had Biblical grounds to divorce him. The friendship of either with a person of the opposite gender is not Biblical grounds for divorce. So called "spiritual adultery," as used int his case is not grounds for a Biblical divorce on the part of either Danny or Linda.

As to what Linda knew about Tommy Shelton: Why would we assume that Danny would tell anyone, to include Linda, the full story? Why would we assume that Linda would not have simply accepted what little Danny said?

This post has been edited by Observer: Jan 28 2007, 05:31 AM

[Nuggie]

Even if you should be 100% right in what you say here above, why was Linda not treated by 3ABN the way Jesus would have done it?

This question has been asked a number of times in different threads, but I haven't seen the Danny apologists give an answer yet...interesting, indeed...the silence speaks volumes...

[Harold T]

[quote name='inga' date='Jan 24 2007, 03:57 AM' post='172137']
It's likely that folks are even now GOOGLING for 3ABN information from sites other than 3ABN.

Please, let's be kind to them and very patient.

You see, I'm sure they'll sound just like Dan Shelton, and most of us have had our fill of him. However, a great many folks will sound like Dan Shelton when they come on here because they've been listening to him so long and so much that they actually believe what he says. They believe that Linda committed adultery -- if not physically, then at least spiritually. After all, didn't John Lomacang and his church say that Dan had was perfectly free to remarry?

They believe that all those claimed miracles are true. They believe that Dan was chosen by God. They believe that 3ABN is doing the work of God, and all those baptisms they claim wouldn't possibly come about if Dan were not chosen by God. And they believe that anyone who opposes the work of 3ABN opposes the work of God and endangers his/her salvation.

How do I know?

Well, I have a mother who believes just that -- in spite of my having tried several times to enlighten her. Finally, she wrote me a long and serious email, imploring me to examine my heart, etc. etc. If she came on this board, she would sound just like Dan Shelton. Though she would not make the same errors that are typical for him, she would make some errors because English is her second language. Being ridiculed for those would certainly convince her that we're all in cahoots with Satan and that nothing said here is true. (Believe it or not, she's an intelligent woman, and she's quite reasonable in most other things.)

So, please be kind to the newbies! One of them may be my mother.

There's nothing to lose by assuming that the ones who find this site are innocents who have been sent here by Dan's "live" program -- folks who know nothing but what they have heard him say.

I believe at one time PB was someone like that. There will be more, and they will likely sound just like Dan.


How about an 'Old' Newbie?
How about a Newbie who has worked at 3ABN for over 10 years? How about a Newbie who KNOWS all these people you are talking about? I have read the letter from the doctor in Europe, I have read the letter from Dr. Thompson. I don't know the doctor, I DO know Dr. Walt. I have known him for quite some time. I just wonder why people call his letter lies and the doctor's letter truth? I have them both, side by side, and I must say someone really is productive. I have a suggestion. Why not go to 3ABN and talk to some of the workers who have been there for at least ten years. See what they have to say about what went on and what IS going on. How many on this forum will do that instead of taking someone elses ideas as 'facts'? You don't have any "facts" if you haven't been there, done that.
Harold

[Observer]

Re: "I have a suggestion. Why not go to 3ABN and talk to some of the workers who have been there for at least ten years. See what they have to say about what went on and what IS going on. How many on this forum will do that instead of taking someone elses ideas as 'facts'? You don't have any "facts" if you haven't been there, done that.
Harold"

How many of you believe that Danny would allow someone to come on 3-ABN property and have unrestricted, private, contact with any and all employeed by 3-ABN.

[Harold T]

Re: "I have a suggestion. Why not go to 3ABN and talk to some of the workers who have been there for at least ten years. See what they have to say about what went on and what IS going on. How many on this forum will do that instead of taking someone elses ideas as 'facts'? You don't have any "facts" if you haven't been there, done that.
Harold"

How many of you believe that Danny would allow someone to come on 3-ABN property and have unrestricted, private, contact with any and all employeed by 3-ABN.

I don't know. I only know that I have been going there for over 10 years, have unrestricted access to all employees and can talk about anything I want. I consider all of them friends. I also know what they all think of Linda. I won't say any more about that because that is none of my or your business. When you find something about 3ABN that you know to be fact, tell about it. 3ABN is doing just what it has set out to do. I have supported them for over 15 years with both labor and money. I have watched, in person, their growth from a little one sattelite set to one with now at least 9. That growth didn't come from being lax with their funds. When I started going there, they had about 30 employees and one or two volunteers. Now there are over 100 employees and on average 10 or 15 volunteers. It is getting so that we can't find much to do when we do go there. Try it. You might like it.
Harold.

[PrincessDrRe]

When folks were here at BS, Michigan when Danny came if they asked him any questions they were "ushered" to the side and then .....AWAY.

That was per a friend that ventured into PMC. I didn't even watch it on TV.

Now.

Explain that.

[Hersheys99]

I have supported them for over 15 years with both labor and money.

Gee that is most of it right there in a nutshell as long as you support him especially money wise things are good. I know I have been there before & they wouldn't even give me the time of day let alone even say hi.

As for volunteering for them won't happen with me. I had 2 kids that worked there & I know some of the stuff that went on there.

Like the saying goes this ain't Sabbath School we pay attention here.

[wwjd]

I don't know. I only know that I have been going there for over 10 years, have unrestricted access to all employees and can talk about anything I want. I consider all of them friends. I also know what they all think of Linda. I won't say any more about that because that is none of my or your business. When you find something about 3ABN that you know to be fact, tell about it. 3ABN is doing just what it has set out to do. I have supported them for over 15 years with both labor and money. I have watched, in person, their growth from a little one sattelite set to one with now at least 9. That growth didn't come from being lax with their funds. When I started going there, they had about 30 employees and one or two volunteers. Now there are over 100 employees and on average 10 or 15 volunteers. It is getting so that we can't find much to do when we do go there. Try it. You might like it.
Harold.

Harold, help me solve this puzzle. Why is it that anything that hoty says is taken as fact because he works there. Now you have come on the scene and have been there just as long or longer but nothing you say is really "credible." Why would that be??? You have as much or more validity than hoty but because your "take" on the situation isn't negative, it will be disregarded. I have friends that have stopped at 3abn as they passed through the area on vacation or whatever and they have told me how they were allowed to do exactly what observer says they can't do....To walk freely all over, go to all the different buildings and talk to anyone they wanted to do. They didn't mention anything about barb wire fences or guard towers being in place. I have never seen all of this Linda bashing on the air and I watch quite often. When the split first happened I called and ask about Linda and was told politely and kindly that they must follow the 3abn policy of not discussing any personal information. Now if they wanted to bash, they sure had thousands of opportunities to do so to the many many calls that they receive.
Harold, tell it like it is and I thank you for a fair and unbiased opinion. You are simply telling what you know and your long experience there makes a believer out of me. If hoty things administration is so corrupt, he would either leave and work for another ministry or he would/should get enough gumption to make his views known to the administration and try to help whatever he thinks is wrong there. Instead he hides behind bsda's skirts to spout his condemnation.

[Rosyroi]

Harold, help me solve this puzzle. Why is it that anything that hoty says is taken as fact because he works there. Now you have come on the scene and have been there just as long or longer but nothing you say is really "credible." Why would that be??? You have as much or more validity than hoty but because your "take" on the situation isn't negative, it will be disregarded. I have friends that have stopped at 3abn as they passed through the area on vacation or whatever and they have told me how they were allowed to do exactly what observer says they can't do....To walk freely all over, go to all the different buildings and talk to anyone they wanted to do. They didn't mention anything about barb wire fences or guard towers being in place. I have never seen all of this Linda bashing on the air and I watch quite often. When the split first happened I called and ask about Linda and was told politely and kindly that they must follow the 3abn policy of not discussing any personal information. Now if they wanted to bash, they sure had thousands of opportunities to do so to the many many calls that they receive.
Harold, tell it like it is and I thank you for a fair and unbiased opinion. You are simply telling what you know and your long experience there makes a believer out of me. If hoty things administration is so corrupt, he would either leave and work for another ministry or he would/should get enough gumption to make his views known to the administration and try to help whatever he thinks is wrong there. Instead he hides behind bsda's skirts to spout his condemnation.

??3ABN policy of not discussing any personal information?? I know for fact that over here in the Northwest US of A email and rumors abounded about Linda. Folks said the information was straight from the offices of 3ABN. I said on another thread that there were more bad things mentioned that have been mentioned here at BSDA. Since they were from 3ABN and bad reports I refused to listen. But I still believed in 3ABN ministry and still do.

[awesumtenor]

Harold, help me solve this puzzle. Why is it that anything that hoty says is taken as fact because he works there. Now you have come on the scene and have been there just as long or longer but nothing you say is really "credible." Why would that be??? You have as much or more validity than hoty but because your "take" on the situation isn't negative, it will be disregarded.

Flip this around and you're talking about the man in the mirror. Answer me this...are you currently employed at 3ABN or there on a daily basis?

Yes or no.

If no, then you are not in a position to say HOTY is not telling the truth....or that Harold T is. You choose to agree with Harold's spin because his postion approximates your own... and your perspective is far from objective. The fact of the matter is, both men can be right... and both can be wrong. As one who is there continuously, HOTY would be privy to things that Harold may not be... Harold says he 'volunteers'... how frequently? For how long? He says he knows all of the employees that have worked there over the time he has been volunteering... yet there are current and former employees of 3ABN who have been here for months prior to Harold's showing up who have made statements about events that harold says he knows nothing about... because of this you conclude that Harold must be telling the truth and all who differ with him must be lying?

Wake up Muttley; you're dreamin' again.

In His service,
Mr. J

[Observer]

Re: "I have friends that have stopped at 3abn as they passed through the area on vacation or whatever and they have told me how they were allowed to do exactly what observer says they can't do....To walk freely all over, go to all the different buildings and talk to anyone they wanted to do. "

In all honesty I appreciate it when people point out that I have not been clear in what I wanted to say. I would rather have it pointed out, and have an opportunity to correct (clarify) it, than for it to go on unclear.

No, I do not think that there are guard towers, police, or escorts that show up every time a strange face shows up on the property.

As an ethical standard of conduct, I happen to believe that If I want to do a survey of an organization's employees, on organizational property, during working hours, I should coordinate that with the organization. I.e. I should not simply show up, unannounced, and expect to wander throughout all working areas, talking to individual employees for as long as I pleased while I collected information.

My personal belief is that if I, Gailon, Bob Pickle were to ask to be allowed to do such a survey, the answer would be NO. Don't show up. That belief stems in part, from a prior experience in which Bob Pickle was invited to come to 3-ABN and review certain documents, and then that permission to see those documents was withdrawn.

My comment that I do not believe that 3-ABN would allow such a survey of their employees does not imply a judgment of them. It is simply a statement of what I think. And, it is a response to a prior post that suggest that people ought to obtain better facts by interviewing 3-ABN employees.

[Hersheys99]

(wwjd @ Jan 28 2007, 05:13 PM) I have never seen all of this Linda bashing on the air and I watch quite often. When the split first happened I called and ask about Linda and was told politely and kindly that they must follow the 3abn policy of not discussing any personal information. Now if they wanted to bash, they sure had thousands of opportunities to do so to the many many calls that they receive.

Ok stop trying to pretend that you called & asked about Linda when you are family. Your PM didn't scare me into silence like you wanted. The thing is what you implied in your PM to me about my past you know what has NOTHING to do with the fact of what you all are doing or have done & trying to cover it all up. This has nothing to do with me or my family so move on & stop trying to divert everyone's attention of the real facts.

This post has been edited by Hersheys99: Jan 28 2007, 09:32 PM