3abn Jan. 2007 Letter Options

[Daryl Fawcett]

As long as they both are saying the same thing, which it seems they are, I would agree with you.

[Skyhook]

Johann, I like the title the prominent leader in our church gave D.S. The "self appointed pope." It sounds like it fits. Perhaps we should name him Pope Dan the first. Or better yet just "the SAP" for short.

This post has been edited by Skyhook: Jan 28 2007, 10:35 PM

[PeacefulBe]

Pickle, WHAT HAVE I MISSED HERE? Again, what are the credentials OF THE COMPETENT INVESTIGATOR, GAILON ARTHUR JOY?? How many indictments for embezzlement did he have? Was it 28? Or was it more? Gailon Arthur Joy reminds me of "Inspector Clouseau" the Pink Panther. Who has no conflict of interest? Get real Pickle.

Having watched all of the Pink Panther movies I might just state, for the record, that Inspector Clouseau always gets the bad guys.

[Richard Sherwin]

Touché!

Having watched all of the Pink Panther movies I might just state, for the record, that Inspector Clouseau always gets the bad guys.

This post has been edited by Richard Sherwin: Jan 29 2007, 06:10 PM

[Pickle]

Pickle, WHAT HAVE I MISSED HERE? Again, what are the credentials OF THE COMPETENT INVESTIGATOR, GAILON ARTHUR JOY?? How many indictments for embezzlement did he have? Was it 28? Or was it more?

eye witness,

If you do not know how to read the Vermont Statutes Annotated and at the same time comprehend what they say, I would strongly recommend that you seek a competent attorney to either explain them to you, or examine your post before you post it.

Otherwise, you are in danger of appearing ignorant, unlearned, and/or deceptive.

My apologies if that is too plain, and my apologies in advance if you can point out to me how I misunderstood what you were saying.

By the way, have you ever been indicted or charged for anything, or have you ever been involved in illegal activity?

This post has been edited by Pickle: Feb 1 2007, 09:20 AM

[Pickle]

Daryl:

Yes, I am aware that there are differences. I simply assume that Harold Lance sent his first version to us. Then he edited it and sent a second version to 3-ABN. I really do not make much of the two versions. I will assume that Harold rushed of a quick copy to us. Then when he decided to send one to 3-ABN, he decided to polish it up.

...

In the same sense, I do not have a problem with Harold providing 3-ABN with an edited version for them to publish.

That is O. K. also.

I do have a problem with it, and I doubt that is what happened. If that is what happened, then Harold Lance has extreme ethical problems.

I spoke with him at 4:38 pm (2:38 pm his time) on Wednesday, January 24, and alerted him to the fact that he had violated his own confidentiality agreement. I wrote him that night, and he replied at 5 pm on Thursday. I wrote him again by 6:30pm.

For him to polish up his statement and provide it to 3ABN would have been extremely unethical, especially since I had already on Wednesday alerted him to the fact that his document contained serious errors.

Thus I think he likely was not the one who polished it up. I can't imagine him being that blatantly crooked.

[eye witness]

eye witness,

If you do not know how to read the Vermont Statutes Annotated and at the same time comprehend what they say, I would strongly recommend that you seek a competent attorney to either explain them to you, or examine your post before you post it.

Otherwise, you are in danger of appearing ignorant, unlearned, and/or deceptive.

My apologies if that is too plain, and my apologies in advance if you can point out to me how I misunderstood what you were saying.

By the way, have you ever been indicted or charged for anything, or have you ever been involved in illegal activity?

I would recommend to you as a pastor to present yourself verbally, and physically, with Jesus as your example. You have been very unkind to many on this forum and speak very worldly and rude. Your quit a thing when you question the entire world around you about what they have done. You seem to allow ones sins forgiveness and others are held to the torment of your power. Pickle you have placed yourself in a dangerous position.
You have but a short time and you are working intently to kill, steal and destroy ministries and peoples lives. My friend the Gates of Hell can not prevail against God's church and when Jesus comes it will be the church triumphant. With you or without you.
Choose ye today whom you will serve.

[Pickle]

eye witness,

In this case I think I will follow Jesus' example.

No comment.

"He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth."

[PeacefulBe]

I would recommend to you as a pastor to present yourself verbally, and physically, with Jesus as your example. You have been very unkind to many on this forum and speak very worldly and rude. Your quit a thing when you question the entire world around you about what they have done. You seem to allow ones sins forgiveness and others are held to the torment of your power. Pickle you have placed yourself in a dangerous position.
You have but a short time and you are working intently to kill, steal and destroy ministries and peoples lives. My friend the Gates of Hell can not prevail against God's church and when Jesus comes it will be the church triumphant. With you or without you.
Choose ye today whom you will serve.

I can see Pastor Bob Pickle's fruits right here on this forum when I see victims of abuse coming out of the shadows and into the light. He has worked diligently to open the way for them to begin healing.

I have seen Pastor Tommy Shelton's fruits in the tormented testimonies of the Clem brothers, Brad Dunning and the mother of a victim (who was 8 or 9 when abused).

It is pretty easy to see who is choosing to serve the Lord and who is choosing to serve Satan and Self.

[eye witness]

eye witness,

In this case I think I will follow Jesus' example.

No comment.

What a wonderful Jesus. He bore the sins of many. Tommy Shelton, Gailon Joy, Eye Witness, Pickle and a world of people full of violence and sin. He died for the trangressions of all. As you have accepted that forgiveness, remember it was forgiveness for all.

[Clay]

What a wonderful Jesus. He bore the sins of many. Tommy Shelton, Gailon Joy, Eye Witness, Pickle and a world of people full of violence and sin. He died for the trangressions of all. As you have accepted that forgiveness, remember it was forgiveness for all.

typical adventist.... minimize the actions, ignore the problem, discount the testimony of others, and if it still comes out, then preach forgiveness so it will go away.....

I forgive you Eyewitness... now will you go away?

[eye witness]

typical adventist.... minimize the actions, ignore the problem, discount the testimony of others, and if it still comes out, then preach forgiveness so it will go away.....

I forgive you Eyewitness... now will you go away?

If you only knew more than you do, then your mind would not draw conclusions about people! With out the preaching of forgiveness, Clay, and Christ our Righteousness, there is a good possibility that no one would receive salvation. Salvation by works don't fit the bill. God knows the details you don't need them. God know the heart and my friend you can't read.... Tommy's or your own. It's deceitfully wicked!

[Grace]

What a wonderful Jesus. He bore the sins of many. Tommy Shelton, Gailon Joy, Eye Witness, Pickle and a world of people full of violence and sin. He died for the trangressions of all. As you have accepted that forgiveness, remember it was forgiveness for all.

For all who confess and repent.

[watchbird]

If you only knew more than you do, then your mind would not draw conclusions about people! With out the preaching of forgiveness, Clay, and Christ our Righteousness, there is a good possibility that no one would receive salvation. Salvation by works don't fit the bill. God knows the details you don't need them. God know the heart and my friend you can't read.... Tommy's or your own. It's deceitfully wicked!

Repentance and reformtion are not "works". They are part of salvation by God's Grace.

Restitution is not "works". It is part of what is required of every one who wears the robe of Christ's righteousness.

We cannot see the heart. But we can surely see the actions that the heart prompts. And we have not seen any evidence of any changed heart on the part of any of the abusers connected with 3abn.... yourself included!

Don't come preaching forgiveness while you are aiding and abetting someone to cover their sins. It is God's place to forgive. Our place is to protect the victims... and to do all we can to prevent others from becoming victimized.

[eye witness]

Repentance and reformtion are not "works". They are part of salvation by God's Grace.

Restitution is not "works". It is part of what is required of every one who wears the robe of Christ's righteousness.

We cannot see the heart. But we can surely see the actions that the heart prompts. And we have not seen any evidence of any changed heart on the part of any of the abusers connected with 3abn.... yourself included!

Don't come preaching forgiveness while you are aiding and abetting someone to cover their sins. It is God's place to forgive. Our place is to protect the victims... and to do all we can to prevent others from becoming victimized.

Watchbird who are the victims? And who are you victimizing? Is God's grace only written by your fingers? Repentance who needs to repent besides you and I? Reformation, tell me about reformation, is this not a work of the heart also? Do you know any of these peoples hearts? Tell me now about restitution, what is the depth of restitution and for whom would this resitution ride on? First we must be clear on what was taken and from whom. Tell me Watchbird what would the restitution be? Clearly there is a difference between works and salvation by Grace through Jesus Christ. Works are taking the law and anything that God has given to us and proceeding with any of it "on our own". We can't make the law holy, it already is. We can do nothing in and of ourselves otherwise it is works.
Please Watchbird tell me who is it that owns the guilt in this?