Unanswered Questions, For Aletheia and Bystander Options

[Aletheia]

do you actually believe the foolishness you write? America was not founded on Godly principles.... while the founding fathers were penning "we believe that all men are created equal" some of them OWNED slaves.... so they were not talking about slaves, neither were they talking about women.... distraction by minutiae on your first point.....
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Dude, those slaves were men, and God did create them equal, that's the same principle Paul declared to the early Christins, no jews no gentiles, no salve no master, no man no woman, all equal in Christ.

it is self evident that we all have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness! Our very beings, our brains, hearts, and our very conscience declares it!

Just because some were very ignorant, doesn't mean that wasn't a Godly principle, for without that principle being in the founding documentsslavery never would have been abolished.

You are tiresome. Rights come from God, not a government.
Governments either trample on them or defend and uphold them.

[Clay]

do you actually believe the foolishness you write? America was not founded on Godly principles.... while the founding fathers were penning "we believe that all men are created equal" some of them OWNED slaves.... so they were not talking about slaves, neither were they talking about women.... distraction by minutiae on your first point.....
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Dude, those slaves were men, and God did create them equal, that's the same principle Paul declared to the early Christins, no jews no gentiles, no salve no master, no man no woman, all equal in Christ.

it is self evident that we all have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness! Our very beings, our brains, hearts, and our very conscience declares it!

Just because some were very ignorant, doesn't mean that wasn't a Godly principle, for without that principle being in the founding documentsslavery never would have been abolished.

You are tiresome. Rights come from God, not a government.
Governments either trample on them or defend and uphold them.

you need to go back and read your history.... clearly you don't have a clue.... slavery was not abolished because of what was written in the declaration of independence....

you are past tiresome.... where is my 14 yr old child, she makes more sense than you will ever hope to make.... you wallow in minutiae..... isnt there something at 3abn you need to do?

[Aletheia]

Personally I have read your posts Aletheia - and regardless - REGARDLESS of your actions of trying to "explain" them away. You stated that the legal age of consent is 17.

What is the purpose of bringing up the "legal age of consent" but to try to prove that the "child" was/could legally consent to having sex with a man?

Nothing about the homosexuality of it.
Nothing about the man being a Pastor.

Just the "legal age of consent". Then when it was determined that the (now) man was NOT of legal age to consent - you still will not conceed.

That says volumes for what you will allow and not allow in your home/church/with your own children.

Why do I say your own children?

Because if you will bring up the "legal age of consent" for someone else in regards to their sexual molestation by a Pastor - you obviously will have to use the same criteria and boundaries when speaking of your own children in the same situation.

Therefore.....

If your son, was approached by a Pastor, and ended up being corerced into a sexual relationship/trist/one-night stand with this said Pastor, at the age of 17, you would have to state the same statement that you stated for others.....

"My child is of the 'legal age of consent' therefore I cannot do anything..."
This is actually a good thing to know....

Why?

If I ever find out your real name.... we could not be friends....

Why?

Because I couldn't trust you around MY children; being that I know your definition of "legal" and such....

After you screaming "child molestation" repetetively for how long now? After claiming that Tommy shouldn't have been working around kids, and bringing this up every single time you entered a thread and found someone trying to post about something else here in the 3ABN forums, and accusing them of not caring about children and protecting and defending a child molester?

How dare you come when I point out the age of consent law rules out child molestation; and try to pretend that the issue is homosexuality, and the issue was the man being a Pastor, when that was NEVER your issue?!?


Sexual assualt can occur with those older then the age of consent, I'm not defending that, but it also needs to be proved.

Homosexuality and being a Pastor can be issues for the Church to take care of but are not civil crimes, and don't try to push the homosexuality issue with Inga. (just a friendly heads up)

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Jan 30 2007, 11:14 AM

[princessdi]

I DO NOT stand by molestation of kids. That is a LIE.

Problem is the age should not be an issue, but you keep making it an issues, so it looks like you are condoning Tommy's behavior as consentual sex if the young man is 17 years of age, as you stated the age of consent in IL. I am sure this technicality would not comfort you if Tommy had been propositioning your 17 year old son.

I stand for calling things by their right names, and proving all things. And I stand for the American way. Those who stand accused are innocent till proven guilty and have a right to face their accusers.

You need to give this up, Cindy. You came here asking for "first hand" knowledge you ahve recieved it and still reject it. How much more fist hand can you get than abuse victims? So what exactly is your point? Now you just we people are bashing the Sheltons and 3ABN because they are aksing themt o be accountable for their actions. Get your boy to address the issues at hand and they will go away, not quickly, but the will go.

I also stand for going to the police when there is a criminal offense and pressing charges.

And I stand for following biblical principles in our Church when it comes to taking care of sin, error and any disputes. Those principles do NOT include talebearing or publishing things to those outside the Church.

The problem with this is, the church did not 'handle" the situation at all. GC has seen all the same evidence we have here, and probably more, and yet they are silent. So then everyone is just supposed to act like nothing is going on, because the church does?

If you don't like that? I guess that would be your problem.

Gurl please!

[Ralph]

Sexual assualt can occur with those older then the age of consent, I'm not defending that, but it also needs to be proved.

What would you accept as proof?

[awesumtenor]

What would you accept as proof?

History says absolutely nothing; each time she has set the bar for proof... when it was met, she moved the bar...

In His service,
Mr. J

[PrincessDrRe]

After you screaming "child molestation" repetetively for how long now? After claiming that Tommy shouldn't have been working around kids, and bringing this up every single time you entered a thread and found someone trying to post about something else here in the 3ABN forums, and accusing them of not caring about children and protecting and defending a child molester?

How dare you come when I point out the age of consent law rules out child molestation; and try to pretend that the issue is homosexuality, and the issue was the man being a Pastor, when that was NEVER your issue?!?

Sexual assualt can occur with those older then the age of consent, I'm not defending that, but it also needs to be proved.

Homosexuality and being a Pastor can be issues for the Church to take care of but are not civil crimes, and don't try to push the homosexuality issue with Inga. (just a friendly heads up)

I'm not pushing the homosexuality issue. I'm not even pushing the issue of him being a Pastor. all of that is just icing on the cake....

What I will continue to push is that the man had sex with a child. Point blank. That is it.

You can post "legal age of consent" all you want. The fact of the matter is the man had sex with a child. Not your child.... so of course it dosen't matter to you...but a child nonetheless.

Now.

Had you not posted anything about "legal age of consent" it wouldn't be viewed as making excuses as to why it was okay for the Pastor to have sex with the now known CHILD!!!

I can conceed the homosexuality. I can conceed the man being a Pastor and having sex out of marriage..... that again is just icing.

I will not however conceed that you, Aletheia post "legal age of consent" as if that gives it the legal ramifications to make it necessary for a man to have sex with a child. For it to be "okay" with you.

It's not your child/children, grandchildren, or kinfolk right now...but you done put some stank karma/vibes out there. I don't wish it on you...but what you put out comes back to you. (Remember generational curses in the BIBLE?)

You putting out "legal age of consent" for others....don't be surprised if it visits your own home.

[ex3ABNemployee]

If it's a matter of civil law and crimnal behavior, I expect them to go to their local police with their evidence, and file a report, so it can be investigated, or so they can press charges. Isn't that common sense?

Excuse me. You have no right to expect anything from me or any of the other victims. All you're doing is trying to cast doubt on the testimonies posted here. You have three written statements online, and I have personally been told by three other guys that the same thing happened to them. It's the truth. It happened. Deal with it.

I'm getting tired of all the questions

YOU'RE getting tired of the questions? That's rich. I'm getting tired of my sexual orientation being questioned. I'm getting tired of whether or not we "consented" being questioned. I'm getting tired of my feelings about Glenn Dryden and how that plays into this being questioned. I'm getting tired of totally irrelevant details (who really owns Linda's website, were charges ever filed, etc.) being questioned.

You think you're tired? You don't know the half of it.

[PeacefulBe]

Excuse me. You have no right to expect anything from me or any of the other victims. All you're doing is trying to cast doubt on the testimonies posted here. You have three written statements online, and I have personally been told by three other guys that the same thing happened to them. It's the truth. It happened. Deal with it.
YOU'RE getting tired of the questions? That's rich. I'm getting tired of my sexual orientation being questioned. I'm getting tired of whether or not we "consented" being questioned. I'm getting tired of my feelings about Glenn Dryden and how that plays into this being questioned. I'm getting tired of totally irrelevant details (who really owns Linda's website, were charges ever filed, etc.) being questioned.

You think you're tired? You don't know the half of it.

You said it all, Duane!

[Ralph]

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If it's a matter of civil law and crimnal behavior, I expect them to go to their local police with their evidence, and file a report, so it can be investigated, or so they can press charges. Isn't that common sense?

Yes, Aletheia, it is common sense. And it appears that you are equating sexual assault with any other kind of assault. If a person was threatened with a knife, both his head and his emotions would direct him to the police station immediately.
BUT
In case of sexual assault, we are dealing with something altogether different. Cognitively, the person knows that this should be reported, but emotionally the person has conflicting feelings. The assaulted person isn't sure whether or not his thinking is correct. He is not certain that he would not be blamed and told that he was just making up stories. Sexuality is so much a part of a person's very being that it is embarrassing to discuss such issues with anyone else.

I hope that you write the way you do because you are naive and not crass. If you were the person at the desk, and I reported sexual assault, I am wondering whether or not you would listen and write up the report while giving me comfort and reassurance.

Maybe it is just because I hear the pain in the voice of so many people that I have no question that they are telling the truth.

[dewayneholden]

To Whom it May Concern,


I believe this post is bogus, totally made up. Contents deleted.

[Hersheys99]

Good gracious...just when I thought this saga couldn't get any worse...the water keeps getting muddier. Now, who are you that we should believe your story?

Exactly!!

[Johann]

After you screaming
- - -

Cindy, the total contents of your posts is becoming a great help to me - in one diretion. They direct me to my Saviour Jesus Christis and I must thank Him that he came to this world to save sinners, sinners just like you and me.

Jesus loves the sinner, but He hates sin. Sin polutes, and sin polutes the Church of God, and these issues are polluting the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

Perhaps you don't mean to, but your total writings give me the appearance of defending and perhaps glorifying the sin that pollutes the end-time church which needs cleansing before the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Satan knows how to use Scripture and also the SOP, and I fear that you have a tendency to use his methods

By defending wickedness Satan gains an avenue into the Church where he can destroy the people of God and make them fit for perdition.

But don't despair, Cindy, the way to treat this is to kneel before the Cross, discovering that there is a Balm in Gilead. This goes for me, for you, for Danny, for Tommy, and for all. Without this there is no hope for any of us, but in the consecration and acceptance of forgiveness we obtain eternal life.

The Institution that satan has attacked and tried to keep it a hotbead of wickedness can be cleansed and become a great tool again in saving souls. Let that be our prayer!

[Ex3ABNViewer]

If 3ABN has Nothing to hide why don't they come here with their real names and tell the truth? According to them....If none of this is true than why hide who you are?

[ex3ABNemployee]

If 3ABN has Nothing to hide why don't they come here with their real names and tell the truth? According to them....If none of this is true than why hide who you are?

My point exactly.