Unanswered Questions, For Aletheia and Bystander Options

[PeacefulBe]

Watchman, where do you find this statement?

We are also told that the time of trouble will be so dreadful that the insane man will become instantly sane.

PB

[Watchman]

It was not intended to be an exact quote, but since it was a startling statement, thank you for bringing this to my attention. The exact quote is startling enough on its own, given ones understanding of the use of language in the era in which it was penned. The following statement is from the book: MARANATHA -(1976) Ch.251

"A Little Time of Peace"
"For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape." 1 Thess. 5:3
"While the work of salvation is closing, trouble will be coming on the earth, and the nations will be angry, yet held in check so as not to prevent the work of the third angel. At that time the "latter rain," or refreshing from the presence of the Lord, will come, to give power to the loud voice of the third angel, and prepare the saints to stand in the period when the seven last plagues shall be poured out.
"I was shown the inhabitants of the earth in the utmost confusion. War, bloodshed, privation, want, famine, and pestilence were abroad in the land. As these things surrounded God's people, they began to press together, and to cast aside their little difficulties. Self-dignity no longer controlled them; deep humility took its place. SUFFERING, PERPLEXITY, AND PRIVATION CAUSED REASON TO RESUME ITS THRONE, AND THE PASSIONATE AND UNREASONABLE MAN BECAME SANE, AND ACTED WITH DISCRETION AND WISDOM" (This is what I referred to.)
"Angels are now restraining the winds of strife, until the world shall be warned of its coming doom; but a storm is gathering, ready to burst upon the earth, and when God shall bid His angels loose the winds, there will be such a scene of strife as no pen can picture....A moment of respite has been graciously given us of God. Every power lent us of heaven is to be used in doing the work assigned us by the Lord for those who are perishing in ignorance."

[PeacefulBe]

Watchman,
Yes this is a startling quote from the pen of SOP. Those of us who want to be among those able to stand through this time certainly must make our connection with the Lord top priority.

I really do want to know from you what you would do if you found out that numerous young men/boys had been sexually abused, betrayed by a pastor they loved and trusted. Would you speak out for these young people? Would you do everything in your power to see that no more young people would be abused by this individual?

What would you do if you found out, through the testimonies of these alleged victims, that this pastor's younger brother, who is the president of a world wide Christian ministry, was doing all he could to keep the allegations secret instead of making his brother accept responsibility for the devastating behavior and keeping more youth from being victimized?

What would you do if you found out that instead of calling for his brother to make Biblical restitution to these alleged victims this ministry leader instead made calls to threaten victims into silence and even had ministry lawyers write letters to intimidate them?

Would hold up your hands, turn away and let God deal with it in his own time?

I have read the words of our Savior: "For in as much as ye have done it to the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto Me."

PB

[wwjd]

Has anyone noticed that Danny and Bystander both use the unique mispelling (sp?) of the abreviation for the latin expression "et cetera"? It should be etc. instead of ect. Here is a copy of part of Danny's letter on the latest save3abn post and from one of Bystanders posts. Has Danny been identifried (sp?)
Voktar

Wow, huge coincidence, I bet no one in the whole world does that except those 2. Kind of like sister and princess Di's little "that dog don't hunt" phrases.

hey V of Z.... yeah we noticed, and yeah we probably figure that there are several people using those screennames... no biggie though... their words reveal their heart....

Relax. Bystander is not Danny and Danny is not bystander. Only one person has ever posted under bystander and it is not he.....

[Watchman]

Dear PB: "Quoting from the inspired writings January 25, 1883 entitled Christian Unity
"Contentions, strife and lawsuits between brethren are a disgrace to the cause of truth. (I personally add once more that two wrongs do not make one right). Those who take such a course EXPOSE the church to the ridicule of her enemies, and cause the powers of darkness to triumph. They are piercing the wounds of Christ afresh, and putting Him to an open shame. By ignoring the authority of the church, they show contempt for God, who gave to the church its authority....Paul...greatly desired that the false teachers might be separated from the church, but their influence had affected so many of the believers that it seemed hazardous to take action against them. There was danger of causing strife and division which would be RUINOUS to the spiritual interests of the church. He therefore sought to impress upon his brethren the importance of trying to help one another in love.....A house divided against itself cannot stand. When Christians contend, Satan COMES IN TO TAKE CONTROL. How often has he succeeded in destroying the peace and harmony of churches....Paul charged his brethren to beware lest in trying to correct the faults of others, they should commit sins equally great themselves. He warns them that hatred, emulation, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, and envyings are as truly the works of the flesh as are LASCIVIOUSNESS, ADULTERY, drunkenness, MURDER, and will as surely CLOSE THE GATE OF HEAVEN AGAINS THE GUILTY. Whoever...by a wrong example misleads a disciple of Christ, is guilty of a great sin. Whoever would make him an object of slander or ridicule is INSULTING JESUS. Our Saviour marks every wrong done to His followers." End of quote. MY COMMENT IS THIS: Jesus does not have double standards. He said He is no respector of persons. Sin is sin. The greatest sin taking place here, if I am to understand the aforementioned quotation is the sin of flinging the cause and therefore honour, of God into the dust,-- and putting Christ to OPEN--I MEAN--WORLDWIDE--SHAME, with all this disgraceful laundry hanging out on this sullied website. If people would humble themselves and band together, weeping and praying, and yes, LOVING the souls of the sinners in Zion--they would repent. Of course, that would take sacrifice.

[Seraphim7]

Dear PB: "Quoting from the inspired writings January 25, 1883 entitled Christian Unity

[Observer]

Watchman, where do you find this statement?
PB

That statement may be found in 1T 268 para. 2.

[awesumtenor]

Relax. Bystander is not Danny and Danny is not bystander. Only one person has ever posted under bystander and it is not he.....

You mean only one *other* person has ever posted under bystander; by your own admission you have... unless, of course, you and bystander are, in fact, one in the same person... but that would make what you told Calvin to get back in here a lie, n'est-ce pas?

Freudian slip, peut-etre?

I believe that would be the rock to your left and the hard place to your right...

In His service,
Mr. J

[Voktar of Zargon]

Perhaps another Freudian slip would be the use of the same distinctive misspelling ECT by 3 of the apologists. (are they one in the same, or do they just all conform to Danny's bad spelling?). Perhaps their subconscious is telling them they are in need of ECT (electro convulsive therapy) for vigorously trying to defend accused molestors (pl.) - instead of putting them both on formal leave until these matters are sorted out.
Voktar

[Voktar of Zargon]

Of course fear of injury to the "ministry" (bottom-line?) supercedes propriety. Shades of the Catholic scandal. ECT (electro Catholic therapy?).

[Seraphim7]

Oh my, this is sounding more and more like Edgar J. Bergen and Charlie McCarthy.

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[PeacefulBe]

Dear PB: "Quoting from the inspired writings January 25, 1883 entitled Christian Unity
"Contentions, strife and lawsuits between brethren are a disgrace to the cause of truth. (I personally add once more that two wrongs do not make one right). Those who take such a course EXPOSE the church to the ridicule of her enemies, and cause the powers of darkness to triumph. They are piercing the wounds of Christ afresh, and putting Him to an open shame. By ignoring the authority of the church, they show contempt for God, who gave to the church its authority....Paul...greatly desired that the false teachers might be separated from the church, but their influence had affected so many of the believers that it seemed hazardous to take action against them. There was danger of causing strife and division which would be RUINOUS to the spiritual interests of the church. He therefore sought to impress upon his brethren the importance of trying to help one another in love.....A house divided against itself cannot stand. When Christians contend, Satan COMES IN TO TAKE CONTROL. How often has he succeeded in destroying the peace and harmony of churches....Paul charged his brethren to beware lest in trying to correct the faults of others, they should commit sins equally great themselves. He warns them that hatred, emulation, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, and envyings are as truly the works of the flesh as are LASCIVIOUSNESS, ADULTERY, drunkenness, MURDER, and will as surely CLOSE THE GATE OF HEAVEN AGAINS THE GUILTY. Whoever...by a wrong example misleads a disciple of Christ, is guilty of a great sin. Whoever would make him an object of slander or ridicule is INSULTING JESUS. Our Saviour marks every wrong done to His followers." End of quote. MY COMMENT IS THIS: Jesus does not have double standards. He said He is no respector of persons. Sin is sin. The greatest sin taking place here, if I am to understand the aforementioned quotation is the sin of flinging the cause and therefore honour, of God into the dust,-- and putting Christ to OPEN--I MEAN--WORLDWIDE--SHAME, with all this disgraceful laundry hanging out on this sullied website. If people would humble themselves and band together, weeping and praying, and yes, LOVING the souls of the sinners in Zion--they would repent. Of course, that would take sacrifice.

Watchman,

While I always feel edified after reading quotes from Ellen White I really don't see this as an answer to my questions in my post #62. Of course if you have determined that all of the people on this site are guilty of spreading "hatred, emulation, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, and envyings" I believe your judgement is faulty.

Let's create a hypothetical situation for a momemnt. If you discovered that a brother of yours was molesting young people what would you do? Would you humble yourself, band together, weep and pray and love the souls of the sinners in Zion and expect that would solve the problem and cause your brother to repent? Would you explain this to your brother's victims and his future victims so that they would see the wisdom of your actions? Would you threaten to take the victims to court if they tried to tell about the abuse?

If this is what you would do, wouldn't you be just as guilty of the abuse of these young people as your brother? There are plenty of scriptures and counsels from SOP that say so.

It is unfortunate that the "alleged" abuse by Tommy Shelton was not handled properly in the beginning. How many young men would have avoided becoming victims? How much better it would have been if, instead of using his power and position to threaten Tommy's alleged victims, Danny Shelton and other family members had done the lawful and Christian thing and demanded accountability from this brother. If the problem had been handled properly in the beginning, many of the people on this forum would not be here. I know I wouldn't be. So, who is it that is responsible for worldwide shame?

I just have to wonder what the Lord, the angels and the people on the unfallen worlds are thinking about a ministry leader that would protect the reputation of his brother by denial, cover-up and intimidation at the expense of the alleged victims of his brother's heinous behavior.

Perhaps another Freudian slip would be the use of the same distinctive misspelling ECT by 3 of the apologists. (are they one in the same, or do they just all conform to Danny's bad spelling?). Perhaps their subconscious is telling them they are in need of ECT (electro convulsive therapy) for vigorously trying to defend accused molestors (pl.) - instead of putting them both on formal leave until these matters are sorted out.
Voktar

There are several possiblilites:

1. All are one and the same person (Danny, Bystander, wwjd and even glenetta).

2. All are from the same extended family.

3. All had the same English teacher in school.


I lean towards the second possibility.

Someday, when I have some extra time, I plan on going through Joe Smith and Kaiser Schlabotnick's posts to see if the common thread appears in them as well. Someday.

PB

[inga]

We are in a war. During time of war the enemy infiltrates the camp, even as the 12 spies did Canaan. Why would we not believe that we too have spies in our midst from the other side, stirring up the unsuspecting people of God, to disgrace our God?

Right on, Watchman!
That's what we're concerned about! Don't you think it's better that folks be alerted to who the infiltrators are -- folks who take vilify their ex-spouses whom they divorced for frivolous reasons, protect a child molester and intimidate his victims and bring aberrant doctrines into the church?

Maybe if you'd pay attention to the posts instead of pasting in long passages of Scripture or SOP, you'd figure out who the infiltrators really are.

(By the way, I suspect we all own Bibles, and many of us can copy and paste as well as you from digital version of the Bible and the SOP.)

[lookin4truth]

During time of war the enemy infiltrates the camp, even as the 12 spies did Canaan.

Watchman, you may note that the spies, who infiltrated, were the children of Israel, infiltrating the enemy.

If 10 of those spies would have used the information they found correctly, Israel would have entered the promised land and overthrown the enemy.

It was because those who had the information were afraid, the enemy won, and the Israelites spent 40 years wandering.

Only 2 spies were willing to speak up. Even though the majority wanted to listen to the 10. those two entered the promised land, while the others died in the wilderness.

Sometimes we must take aggressive action to expose the enemy.



This post has been edited by lookin4truth: Feb 12 2007, 04:09 PM

[PeacefulBe]

Watchman, you may note that the spies, who infiltrated, were the children of Israel, infiltrating the enemy.

If 10 of those spies would have used the information they found correctly, Israel would have entered the promised land and overthrown the enemy.

It was because those who had the information were afraid, the enemy won, and the Israelites spent 40 years wandering.

Only 2 spies were willing to speak up. Even though the majority wanted to listen to the 10. those two entered the promised land, while the others died in the wilderness.

Sometimes we must take aggressive action to expose the enemy.

Right on the mark, lookin4truth!

PB