A Question Of Ethical Behavior, How far will some people go? Options

[fallible humanbe...]

I received the email quoted below from Bob Pickle tonight, February 9, 2007 at 4:26 PM. It arrived at my personal email address which is not available on either BSDA or MSDAOL. I know how Mr. Pickle acquired this email address and believe that aside from violating the Terms of Service (Respect the privacy of others) here on BSDA this should cause members and guests here concern. It should lead to questions of what it means to violate basic moral and ethical principles when taking part in an open discussion forum. This email was also sent to Mollie Steenson, John Lomacang, Tommy Shelton, and Joe Smith.

On 2/9/07, Bob <bob@************> wrote:

Hi everyone.

I haven't gotten any response to the questions I sent Danny about the child molestation allegations, even though it's been more than ten weeks now since I sent my first inquiry. Perhaps some of you can help me out?

Tommy, this is by no means meant to embarrass you, but merely to get down to the bottom of things, and arrive at the truth of the situation. Perhaps you will feel free to answer this yourself, because certainly you would know the facts of the matter.

3ABN board chairman Dr. Walt Thompson gave me information about these allegations in his emails of November 24 and 27, 2006, and stated:

"I would like to request that you ... varify[sic] [this letter's] contents."


In his email of November 27, Walt wrote:

"I was also told that one leader pestered Tommy over and over again until Tommy voluntarily gave up his ministerial license."


Please take a look at the 1985 letter suspending Tommy's ordination posted at Gailon Joy's site, http://www.Save3ABN.com/. That letter came from the "Illinois Ministerial Credentials Committee of the General Assembly of the Church of God in Illinois." You will notice that it is signed by two individuals, not one, that it represents the decision of an entire committee, and that it does not portray a voluntary surrender on the part of Tommy of his ministerial license. Thus,

Question: Does anyone have any idea who gave Walt the idea that a single leader was involved in Tommy's surrendering of his ministerial license, and who gave him the idea that Tommy's surrendering of that license was voluntary; or, did Tommy surrender his license on multiple occasions, and was Walt referring to a different occasion altogether?

Thanks so much for your assistance.

Have a good Sabbath.

Bob

The following is some of the verification I have that Bob used duplicitous means to gain access to my personal email address. I have edited this down for size. Nothing that was edited out would change the understanding of or context of the content in any way. I have also received the permission of the individual who sent me this email to post it's contents.

[I]t all started w[hen] Bob kept sending me messages, and PM's pretending to be supportive of me, pretending he had the same concerns and questions I had, and then began saying things like " I wish they would stop thinking you are from 3ABN" or "I wish they would understand you aren't FHB" and then he began to explain why -- because [name deleted] had some info about you and she thought I was you and he was trying to assure her that I was a good friend etc. I never was told what [name deleted] thought or said, but assumed by her posts to me on MSDAOL that she was talking about you when she wrote of this person she labelled [sic] "Voltaire' and then tried to tie me into, either being you, or just like you (???).

Then he emailed me that you were hammering him in emails (or Pm's) I am not sure and attacking him, and that he had evidence you were being deceptive as you were registered in Florida but evidence showed you lived or were posting from very near my location in ******. He wanted to know if I knew you and I answered No, that the first time I had ever heard of you was when you sent me a welcome PM when I joined BSDA, and other then a couple messages and emails that was all I knew, but I considered you to be sincere based on those. I also told him I did not agree with what you were doing and writing to him.

That last was wrong, I know now, and I have no excuse, except to say I have known Bob for some years, [17 words deleted offering personal opinion]. Quite simply, I accepted what he told me and didn't question him as I should have. I was alarmed by his warnings and about the fact that you might be someone I knew and out to get me. It is hard not to be paranoid in the middle of so much paranoia and mass hysteria, engendered by the mob on BSDA, and MSDAOL.

[37 words deleted that are of no significance to the issue of this thread]

Bob asked if your email to me showed that you were in my area, and I said no, it didn't reveal anything about your location.

Anyway, despite all this I did feel somewhat bad, and told Bob that I preferred to give people the benefit of the doubt, and that included you, because what you had emailed me sounded so sincere.

Bob, then pm'd me asking if I could forward the letter [email] to him by attatchment so he could use it to persuade the others of your sincerity and honesty also, and my own as well.

So I pm'd him back and said that it went against my feelings and convictions about people's rights to privacy, and so was torn, and asked him to assure me he wouldn't use it against you, as I didn't want to hurt you, and that he wouldn't post it.

He said that he was only trying to help, and didn't want to hurt you either, and couldn't promise he wouldn't post it until he saw it, but if it wasn't negative( or something like that) then there would be no need to.

Well it wasn't negative so I sent it to him by email, [8 words deleted of a personal information nature], even before he sent me a message in response saying that he tried to trace it from the properties and you did have a anonymous account and it revealed nothing about your location.

Is this the way information should be gathered?

Is this honest?

I believe Bob was seeking information in order to attempt to silence me and to keep me from posting on BSDA and MSDAOL. In the post linked here ( #93 in the thread "Another newbie critical of BSDA") Bob was fishing for my IP address. Both incidents were a concerted effort to discover my identity. What for? I will leave that to you to decide.

I do not live in the state where the individual whose email is quoted above lives, and never have. I know the writer of the email only through our personal correspondence on BSDA and private email communications since meeting on this forum, but have no reason to doubt them on any issue or point as they have always been forthright and honest with me in all things.

So Bob, here are my questions:

Question #1: Why did you need my private, unpublicized email address? And what did you intend to do with it if you got it?

Question #2: Why did you use it once you had it and it reveled nothing to you?

Question #3: Why did you attempt to make someone believe they were in danger from me?

Question #4: Who were you going to "persuade" in regards to my "sincerity and honesty"?

Question #5: How would this individuals sharing of my private email address prove they were sincere and honest?

- FHB

[inga]

FHB, the first thing that comes to my mind in answer to your questions is that Bob Pickle was attempting to determine whether you were really someone who just happened on this forum and didn't like what you saw or whether you were much closer to 3ABN administration. That's what his behind-the-scenes email says to me.

As for the one he sent you -- it sounds very much like his other fact-finding emails.

As for violating TOS, I'm guessing that your post here is as much or more in violation as anything Bob did/wrote.

[Ralph]

FHB, the first thing that comes to my mind in answer to your questions is that Bob Pickle was attempting to determine whether you were really someone who just happened on this forum and didn't like what you saw or whether you were much closer to 3ABN administration. That's what his behind-the-scenes email says to me.

As for the one he sent you -- it sounds very much like his other fact-finding emails.

As for violating TOS, I'm guessing that your post here is as much or more in violation as anything Bob did/wrote.

That is how I felt. FHB's insinuations don't fly with me. To question Bob's integrity puts him (FHB) in a very poor light with anyone who knows Bob.

[Pickle]

I'll answer your questions based on the best that I can recall.

Question #1: I didn't. Nothing.

Question #2: Because I wanted to write you too, and see if you could help me out.

Question #3: I didn't. A better question would be, "Did you?" I think that approach would be better rather than just taking one person's recollection as being what had to have happened.

Question #4: This issue never came up in our discussion.

Question #5: Never came up in our discussion.

As far as why there might be some discrepancies in the above, I think it would be better for all of us to just leave that one alone.

Regarding your link to my post, I wasn't fishing for your IP address, and that should be fairly clear.

Now that I have answered you questions, how about answering mine before we continue:

Question: Does anyone have any idea who gave Walt the idea that a single leader was involved in Tommy's surrendering of his ministerial license, and who gave him the idea that Tommy's surrendering of that license was voluntary; or, did Tommy surrender his license on multiple occasions, and was Walt referring to a different occasion altogether?

And if you simply do not know the answer to it, could you please comment on how you feel about Walt's information gained from his "investigation" differing so drastically from the facts?

[fallible humanbe...]

I'll answer your questions based on the best that I can recall.

. . .

As far as why there might be some discrepancies in the above, I think it would be better for all of us to just leave that one alone.

Let's review the questions:

Question #1: Why did you need my private, unpublicized email address? And what did you intend to do with it if you got it?

BP Response: I didn't. Nothing.

- Then why did you go to such great lengths to discover it?

Question #2: Why did you use it once you had it and it reveled nothing to you?

BP Response: Because I wanted to write you too, and see if you could help me out.

- Bob, it should have been clear to you over the course of time that you and I are on two opposite sides of the fence. I disagree with your methods and most of your conclusions. You know that, knew that, and I can not imagine why would think I could "help" you.

Question #3: Why did you attempt to make someone believe they were in danger from me?

BP Response: I didn't. A better question would be, "Did you?" I think that approach would be better rather than just taking one person's recollection as being what had to have happened.

- Bob, you will have to live with yourself on this one. You know the question is full of merit and that you did, the evidence is unmistakeable. Your insinuation that I did something to make someone afraid is about as underhanded as I have seen. I trust this individual to tell me the truth, why, because they have shown themselves trustworthy.

Question #4: Who were you going to "persuade" in regards to my "sincerity and honesty"?

BP Response: This issue never came up in our discussion.

- So then you are calling the individual a liar. That would be rather typical of your approach. Again evidence will prove you are not being forthright on this.

Question #5: How would this individuals sharing of my private email address prove they were sincere and honest?

BP Response: Never came up in our discussion.

- Again, call the individual a liar. Bob, you can't get away with that any longer. It did come up, you did make this claim as well as the others.

- FHB

This post has been edited by fallible humanbeing: Feb 10 2007, 08:34 PM

[fallible humanbe...]

As a means to make things more context friendly. In the email from another member of BSDA there is a comment that Bob told them that I was "hammering" him via PM.

What is being refered to here by Bob are a series of 22 PM's (that would be the total of both our messages) and posts that appeared on MSDAOL where I challenged Bob on his tendenacy to put words into peoples mouths that they never spoke. This included his attributing claims to the chairman of the BoD and Danny that neither one ever made.

He may very well have felt "hammered", but I felt equally that his method of putting words in peoples mouths that they never said was dishonest and created false perceptions that would possibly enhance his own personal claims.

- FHB

[Clay]

if you felt he violated terms you should PM Calvin... not start a thread.....

[calvin]

There is no violation of BSDA TOS. Your IP and email address are only available to me, Clay and PrincessDi. Please note: When you email a member from BSDA you expose your email address to the recipient and if you respond to an email sent from here, you have likewise exposed your email to them. Anytime you use email, you can expect that the message and your address can end up in anywhere on the net.

FHB and Picke take this discussion offline.