The Church Can Speak. Options

[Observer]

It has been widely stated that the denomination cannot effectively deal with many of the issues that involve 3-ABN. I agree with that position. I believe that many of the issues can only be resolved by the civil authorities. I do not believe that the SDA Church can effectively resolve them in fairness to all. However, I have stated that the Church can make a statement. I will develop this here in this post.

In the 1980's the denomination became concerned in regard to the following independent organizations: Hope International, Hartland Institute, Prophecy Countdown, Steps to Life Church in Wichita, and the Rolling Hills congregation. This concern reached the point where the denomination decided that it had " . . . a responsibility to make clear its relationship to these [those] organizations." In response to its duty it took the following actions:

1) On October 15, 1992, the North American Division Year-end Meetings authorized the following statement: "564-92N STATEMENT PERTAINING TO ISSUES BETWEEN THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHRUCH AND CERATIN PRIVATE ORGANIZATIONS. This statement was seven pages in length. It went out with a cover letter dated October 21, 1992, and signed by A. C. McClure, President of the North American Division.

2) In addition, the following 467 page book was published: ISSUES: THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH AND CERTAIN PRIVATE MINISTRIES. This book was placed in Conference ABCs for sale. And it was freely distributed among SDA pastors, along with the documents listed in # 1.

Let me be clear: Many of the specifics listed in the above documents and the book do NOT apply to 3-ABN. Yet there is a very common ground. If one were to give study to the above documents, one could conclude that there are some commonalities between the situation and 3-ABN. There are differences, and commonalities.


Perhaps, the situation described here could provide a possible way in which the SDA Church could intervene and make a statement?

It remains to be seen as to whether or not this will happen.

In any case, I expect that resolution of many issues will only be decided in the civil realm.

This post has been edited by Observer: Feb 19 2007, 09:31 AM

[Lee]

When the SDA church wrote those phamplets making their statements against the independent ministires, it didn't do any good! Predominately most SDA's ignored the Church leadership. If anything, all the more SDA's started giving more donations to these ministires. If the Church had of been silent, it would have been better. As it was, God did take care of those Independent ministires that were corrupt. In His time some of these ministries folded. The others have been blessed by God abundantly: Amazing Facts/3ABN/Quiet Hour and It is Written as well as Hartland and Hope. They are all thriving and doing well.

[September]

The others have been blessed by God abundantly: Amazing Facts/3ABN/Quiet Hour and It is Written as well as Hartland and Hope. They are all thriving and doing well.

Outwardly they may appear to be thriving...but only God knows the hearts and what goes on behind closed doors, so to speak. I think we have to be very careful making blanket statements like that based upon outward appearances.

[watchbird]

When the SDA church wrote those phamplets making their statements against the independent ministires, it didn't do any good! Predominately most SDA's ignored the Church leadership. If anything, all the more SDA's started giving more donations to these ministires. If the Church had of been silent, it would have been better. As it was, God did take care of those Independent ministires that were corrupt. In His time some of these ministries folded. The others have been blessed by God abundantly: Amazing Facts/3ABN/Quiet Hour and It is Written as well as Hartland and Hope. They are all thriving and doing well.

I disagree. It did a great deal of good. Maybe not as much as it could have if they had been more specific and to the point rather than so generalized. But it did good, as it gave those who were "in the valley of decision" an official statement as to what the relationship was between those independent ministries and the main body of the church.

I also disagree that more SDA's started giving more donations to "these ministries". While there may have been those who recognized that their loyalties lay closer to the goals of the errant ministries than to the church itself, and thus chose to cling to them even more tightly, there were others, even from among their followers for whom it was a wakeup call and they separated themselves from them and ceased supporting them. So it certainly would NOT have been "better" had the church remained silent.

You can give God the credit for those which folded if you wish... and truly God deserves the credit for "every good gift" that comes to us. But whatever He did directly, He also used human hands and minds to the extent that they cooperated with him.

I also SHARPLY disagree with the appropriateness of mentioning Quiet Hour and It is Written in the same sentence as the others in your lineup! Amazing Facts may be borderline... for they started out under a definite cloud... but as they have come closer and closer to the main body through the years, they do not deserve to be linked with Hope at least... and should not be linked with 3abn, though they certainly lay themselves open for that charge by their own close association with 3abn.

Anyway, the lines are not so neatly drawn as you seem to draw them... with "thriving" being equated with God's approval and "folding" as a sign of His disapproval. We do live in the midst of the battlefield between Christ and Satan.... and God does allow the wicked to prosper. And the Psalmist DOES tell us that this fact should not cause our feet to "stumble".

It is who is inside and who is outside in the FINAL confrontation that really matters. Take heed, therefore, to yourself, that you not be joined to those who are headed for the wrong side of the walls.

[Lee]

Outwardly they may appear to be thriving...but only God knows the hearts and what goes on behind closed doors, so to speak. I think we have to be very careful making blanket statements like that based upon outward appearances.

I am personally acquainted with many in these ministires. I know what goes on "behind closed doors" and there is NOTHING hidden in these ministries. I wasn't making a "blanket" statement. But you certainly were.

Watchbird, you can disagree all you want with me. It wouldn't matter what I posted, you would find something to disagree about. You are welcome to your own opinion, it doesn't make it correct.

[September]

Deleted...

I'm not interested in arguing with anyone here and so will not post further on this thread. I know what I know, based upon my personal experience and to argue is moot as far as I'm concerned.

Carry on.

This post has been edited by September: Feb 19 2007, 10:53 AM

[Observer]

When the SDA church wrote those phamplets making their statements against the independent ministires, it didn't do any good! Predominately most SDA's ignored the Church leadership. If anything, all the more SDA's started giving more donations to these ministires. If the Church had of been silent, it would have been better. As it was, God did take care of those Independent ministires that were corrupt. In His time some of these ministries folded. The others have been blessed by God abundantly: Amazing Facts/3ABN/Quiet Hour and It is Written as well as Hartland and Hope. They are all thriving and doing well.

Here are the independent ministries that the documents I referenced addressed: Hope International, Hartland Institute, Prophecy Countdown, Steps to Life Church in Wichita, and the Rolling Hills congregation. It Is Written, Amazing Facts, and The Quiet Hour were not addressed in those documents.

You are mixing apples and cherries by bringing them into the equation.

[husbandoftheyear]

The others have been blessed by God abundantly: Amazing Facts/3ABN/Quiet Hour and It is Written as well as Hartland and Hope. They are all thriving and doing well.

[wwjd]

Can you show facts that say otherwise? Other than a head shake of course.

[husbandoftheyear]

Can you show facts that say otherwise? Other than a head shake of course.

Aside from all the scandals? I heard like everyone else watching the BTS program last week.

[daylily]

What is the BTS program??

[September]

Behind the Scenes

[daylily]

Thanks!

[Seraphim7]

Not holding break.