3ABN Lawsuit Speculation, What if, Why, Possible outcome? Options

[Bystander]

Bystander,


YOu can do that by selling my idea of 12 Sdas jury to 3abn and danny

erik

Truthfully, Erik, I hope they do something similar to what you are saying as far as the church goes. That will not stop what goes forward in a court of law. Everyone thinks because papers have not been served legally or because the evidence LS requests has not "popped" up, that nothing is happening. There are many on here that claim to be "educated" yet doesn't have the sense to know that the wheels of justice turn slowly, but they do turn. When everything is in order, then we will see what we will see.
Also, Erik, to address what you were saying about counter suing and all that: If 3abn brings a suit against slanderous statements that are false, that is what the suit is about, period. 3abn might or might not have to prove that the said allegations are false for it to be considered slander. I don't know the legal rules as far as slander goes. If proof must be shown that the allegations are false, obviously they have no problem with that, or, they wouldn't be doing it.
Now, let's use princess Dr Re since she gave a rousing speech that "she wouldn't play" and she would end up with money for her education and so on.....We shall use her in a hypothetical situation. If she was served with papers from 3abn for making slanderous statements, she would be required to come to court, wherever that might be....It could be very likely that it wouldn't be in her state, so she would have to pay her own expenses for travel...Once there, the 3abn attorneys would put her on a witness stand and would show her, what, if any, allegations and/or slanderous and liable remarks that she had made during the course of however many months that she had been making them. Now, she would have to admit making them (after all they would have been taking them right off of her posts), so, If 3abn has to prove the accusations are false, that action would take place next. They would have to go down the list of slanderous statements that princess made, one at a time, and show proof that the allegations were false. If they can prove the statements are lies, then princess is held accountable legally, and financially for her part in hurting a ministry and the reputations of those involved.
Now if 3abn doesn't have to prove the allegations are false and only have to show where said allegations have hurt the ministry and the people that run that ministry, then it ends a lot sooner and princess is still held to the same accountability. Either way, she is found liable . The only way she would be found innocent was if she could prove that she didn't make those statements, (as in someone made them under her name) or if she could prove that her statements in no way, hurt anyone or hurt the ministry. That would be pretty much impossible.
Now she talks about getting money from 3abn. For what? If she countersued what grounds would she counter on? If proven in court that she made slanderous statements that directly contributed to some kind of loss to the ministry and the individuals involved and was found guilty of such, what is she going to counter sue on? She wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Even if she tried she would be responsible for all of her own legal fees over the period of time that the suit took place and in the end, she would have no grounds to stand on anyway. Instead of getting money awarded, she would be out thousands and thousands of dollars for a suit that had no basis. (I am sure it would never go that far, because a legit attorney would know this from the get go an refuse to take a losing case.)As observer always points out, I am certainly am not a legal expert, but am giving my opinion based on my understanding of this situation.

Another point I wanted to make to you is a suit for slander is a suit for slander. You are not allowed to bring in all kinds of other things. If a person is charged with murder, evidence of a possible robbery that he may have done that has absolutely no bearing on the murder trial, cannot be brought up. that would be a separate case altogether.
Another important thing to think about is, that whoever is charged with slander and served papers, will not only have to pay their own transportation fees to whatever state or city, they will have to pay an attorney to defend them unless they want to be their own defense. Many attorneys, now days, charge 500.00 an hour. In my opinion, there is no way I would want to involve myself and others in something so serious just to be able to "air" my opinions in a chat room. It is one thing to say He might have, or she may have it is quite another to refer to specific individuals as Pedophiles, embezzlers, child molesters, adulterers, liars ...that is where it gets serious, especially, if you are wrong and making these judgments and statements on the heresay of others and can be proven that what you are involved in has caused harm to the organization and public figures involved.
As far as your suggestion where the church is concerned, I would like to see something like that happen, and it might, in time. I think though that the panel should consists of 4 or 5 well known and well respected individuals in the denomination. If there is evidence against LS it could be presented and then a public statement could be made as to the panels conclusions. It is my understanding that LS had a chance to do this with the 3abn board and did not.
Regardless of what is done, it all takes time and organization. It is ridiculous to think because 3abn hasn't responded to a demand from LS a week ago, that they have nothing or will not do nothing. A week is nothing, just like in the legal system. Many times trials take years to get through.
I wish with all my heart that no one would have to go through anything like this, but people cannot go around making statements of accusation, some of a criminal nature, that could end up destroying people's lives and a huge ministry without accountability.
Hope this gives you a better understanding Erik. Again it is just my understanding of the situation. I certainly don't know all that the law demands on this subject.

I think I'd rather not know who this character Bystander admittedly is. I would hate to think he is who he appears to be. This character likes to leave people to guess. By contrast, Christ didn't. And, that speaks as much for itself as does, "by their fruits shall ye know them."

Until you apply your statement about Christ to the others on this board who say they have first hand evidence, you only show your partiality to that side. Have you applied your statement to sister who has given a large percentage of the information that has been posted. Certainly down through the months, everyone else has carried on with it but we are talking origination. Sonshineonme and watchbird also speak (by their own admission) for Linda. Have you applied your statement to them also?
Sorry, criticism just for my identity doesn't fly here, when there are so many others. Just happens, I am on the wrong side, so receive all the flak. That's ok I can take it.

[erik]

Truthfully, Erik, I hope they do something similar to what you are saying as far as the church goes. That will not stop what goes forward in a court of law. Everyone thinks because papers have not been served legally or because the evidence LS requests has not "popped" up, that nothing is happening. There are many on here that claim to be "educated" yet doesn't have the sense to know that the wheels of justice turn slowly, but they do turn. When everything is in order, then we will see what we will see.
Also, Erik, to address what you were saying about counter suing and all that: If 3abn brings a suit against slanderous statements that are false, that is what the suit is about, period. 3abn might or might not have to prove that the said allegations are false for it to be considered slander. I don't know the legal rules as far as slander goes. If proof must be shown that the allegations are false, obviously they have no problem with that, or, they wouldn't be doing it.
Now, let's use princess Dr Re since she gave a rousing speech that "she wouldn't play" and she would end up with money for her education and so on.....We shall use her in a hypothetical situation. If she was served with papers from 3abn for making slanderous statements, she would be required to come to court, wherever that might be....It could be very likely that it wouldn't be in her state, so she would have to pay her own expenses for travel...Once there, the 3abn attorneys would put her on a witness stand and would show her, what, if any, allegations and/or slanderous and liable remarks that she had made during the course of however many months that she had been making them. Now, she would have to admit making them (after all they would have been taking them right off of her posts), so, If 3abn has to prove the accusations are false, that action would take place next. They would have to go down the list of slanderous statements that princess made, one at a time, and show proof that the allegations were false. If they can prove the statements are lies, then princess is held accountable legally, and financially for her part in hurting a ministry and the reputations of those involved.
Now if 3abn doesn't have to prove the allegations are false and only have to show where said allegations have hurt the ministry and the people that run that ministry, then it ends a lot sooner and princess is still held to the same accountability. Either way, she is found liable . The only way she would be found innocent was if she could prove that she didn't make those statements, (as in someone made them under her name) or if she could prove that her statements in no way, hurt anyone or hurt the ministry. That would be pretty much impossible.
Now she talks about getting money from 3abn. For what? If she countersued what grounds would she counter on? If proven in court that she made slanderous statements that directly contributed to some kind of loss to the ministry and the individuals involved and was found guilty of such, what is she going to counter sue on? She wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Even if she tried she would be responsible for all of her own legal fees over the period of time that the suit took place and in the end, she would have no grounds to stand on anyway. Instead of getting money awarded, she would be out thousands and thousands of dollars for a suit that had no basis. (I am sure it would never go that far, because a legit attorney would know this from the get go an refuse to take a losing case.)As observer always points out, I am certainly am not a legal expert, but am giving my opinion based on my understanding of this situation.

Another point I wanted to make to you is a suit for slander is a suit for slander. You are not allowed to bring in all kinds of other things. If a person is charged with murder, evidence of a possible robbery that he may have done that has absolutely no bearing on the murder trial, cannot be brought up. that would be a separate case altogether.
Another important thing to think about is, that whoever is charged with slander and served papers, will not only have to pay their own transportation fees to whatever state or city, they will have to pay an attorney to defend them unless they want to be their own defense. Many attorneys, now days, charge 500.00 an hour. In my opinion, there is no way I would want to involve myself and others in something so serious just to be able to "air" my opinions in a chat room. It is one thing to say He might have, or she may have it is quite another to refer to specific individuals as Pedophiles, embezzlers, child molesters, adulterers, liars ...that is where it gets serious, especially, if you are wrong and making these judgments and statements on the heresay of others and can be proven that what you are involved in has caused harm to the organization and public figures involved.
As far as your suggestion where the church is concerned, I would like to see something like that happen, and it might, in time. I think though that the panel should consists of 4 or 5 well known and well respected individuals in the denomination. If there is evidence against LS it could be presented and then a public statement could be made as to the panels conclusions. It is my understanding that LS had a chance to do this with the 3abn board and did not.
Regardless of what is done, it all takes time and organization. It is ridiculous to think because 3abn hasn't responded to a demand from LS a week ago, that they have nothing or will not do nothing. A week is nothing, just like in the legal system. Many times trials take years to get through.
I wish with all my heart that no one would have to go through anything like this, but people cannot go around making statements of accusation, some of a criminal nature, that could end up destroying people's lives and a huge ministry without accountability.
Hope this gives you a better understanding Erik. Again it is just my understanding of the situation. I certainly don't know all that the law demands on this subject.

bystander,

Thank you for your thoughtful post, my reason for picking 12 common sda is because it would remove any charge of favorism form the hearing of proof.

Slander is a tough thing to prove, because you have to prove the that the person making the charge know it was false and was trying to hurt the person(entity) being slandered.

Some on here you could maybe make that stick but others it would be much harder to prove.

the lawyers were live need to move to were you live because they are not making 500.00 any hour.

I mean lets take Johann for example to prove his posts have been slanderous one would need to able to prove his personal experiences here in fact figments of his imagination.

Or lets take daune and the others that have written letters about tommy, for someone to prove slander they are going to have to prove that tommy and the guys and boys did in fact not have anything happen between them, that is going to a tall order considering that in tommy's and carols letters that failed to flat out deny the charges against tommy,.

now lets get to your example of a poster on the forum you takes filters information and then states option, if we are basing our comments on the first hand testominy of others then slander becomes a tough sell has i read the law in my state.

The other thing is you are going to have to prove that exact dollar amount of damage done, by one person and could be very tough in itself, most certainly anyone posting on the Blacksda site because you have pointed out to us that we are not the attacks that were discussed the other night.



I would hope for the sake of truth that 3abn would do a better job getting the truth about all of this out then a court case that will take years.

Again i go back to the 12 person jury instead of the church, made of common sda so that no charge of favorism or cronism can be leveled. then if people are still going after 3abn drag their sorry buttons to court.

Erik

[Richard Sherwin]

So Bystander if I'm hearing you correctly it's more important to protect 3abn from harm by showing their statements hurt the ministry than to prove that someone said something that was a lie? (See bold)

Truthfully, Erik, I hope they do something similar to what you are saying as far as the church goes. That will not stop what goes forward in a court of law. Everyone thinks because papers have not been served legally or because the evidence LS requests has not "popped" up, that nothing is happening. There are many on here that claim to be "educated" yet doesn't have the sense to know that the wheels of justice turn slowly, but they do turn. When everything is in order, then we will see what we will see.
Also, Erik, to address what you were saying about counter suing and all that: If 3abn brings a suit against slanderous statements that are false, that is what the suit is about, period. 3abn might or might not have to prove that the said allegations are false for it to be considered slander. I don't know the legal rules as far as slander goes. If proof must be shown that the allegations are false, obviously they have no problem with that, or, they wouldn't be doing it.
Now, let's use princess Dr Re since she gave a rousing speech that "she wouldn't play" and she would end up with money for her education and so on.....We shall use her in a hypothetical situation. If she was served with papers from 3abn for making slanderous statements, she would be required to come to court, wherever that might be....It could be very likely that it wouldn't be in her state, so she would have to pay her own expenses for travel...Once there, the 3abn attorneys would put her on a witness stand and would show her, what, if any, allegations and/or slanderous and liable remarks that she had made during the course of however many months that she had been making them. Now, she would have to admit making them (after all they would have been taking them right off of her posts), so, If 3abn has to prove the accusations are false, that action would take place next. They would have to go down the list of slanderous statements that princess made, one at a time, and show proof that the allegations were false. If they can prove the statements are lies, then princess is held accountable legally, and financially for her part in hurting a ministry and the reputations of those involved.
Now if 3abn doesn't have to prove the allegations are false and only have to show where said allegations have hurt the ministry and the people that run that ministry, then it ends a lot sooner and princess is still held to the same accountability. Either way, she is found liable . The only way she would be found innocent was if she could prove that she didn't make those statements, (as in someone made them under her name) or if she could prove that her statements in no way, hurt anyone or hurt the ministry. That would be pretty much impossible.
Now she talks about getting money from 3abn. For what? If she countersued what grounds would she counter on? If proven in court that she made slanderous statements that directly contributed to some kind of loss to the ministry and the individuals involved and was found guilty of such, what is she going to counter sue on? She wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Even if she tried she would be responsible for all of her own legal fees over the period of time that the suit took place and in the end, she would have no grounds to stand on anyway. Instead of getting money awarded, she would be out thousands and thousands of dollars for a suit that had no basis. (I am sure it would never go that far, because a legit attorney would know this from the get go an refuse to take a losing case.)As observer always points out, I am certainly am not a legal expert, but am giving my opinion based on my understanding of this situation.

Another point I wanted to make to you is a suit for slander is a suit for slander. You are not allowed to bring in all kinds of other things. If a person is charged with murder, evidence of a possible robbery that he may have done that has absolutely no bearing on the murder trial, cannot be brought up. that would be a separate case altogether.
Another important thing to think about is, that whoever is charged with slander and served papers, will not only have to pay their own transportation fees to whatever state or city, they will have to pay an attorney to defend them unless they want to be their own defense. Many attorneys, now days, charge 500.00 an hour. In my opinion, there is no way I would want to involve myself and others in something so serious just to be able to "air" my opinions in a chat room. It is one thing to say He might have, or she may have it is quite another to refer to specific individuals as Pedophiles, embezzlers, child molesters, adulterers, liars ...that is where it gets serious, especially, if you are wrong and making these judgments and statements on the heresay of others and can be proven that what you are involved in has caused harm to the organization and public figures involved.
As far as your suggestion where the church is concerned, I would like to see something like that happen, and it might, in time. I think though that the panel should consists of 4 or 5 well known and well respected individuals in the denomination. If there is evidence against LS it could be presented and then a public statement could be made as to the panels conclusions. It is my understanding that LS had a chance to do this with the 3abn board and did not.
Regardless of what is done, it all takes time and organization. It is ridiculous to think because 3abn hasn't responded to a demand from LS a week ago, that they have nothing or will not do nothing. A week is nothing, just like in the legal system. Many times trials take years to get through.
I wish with all my heart that no one would have to go through anything like this, but people cannot go around making statements of accusation, some of a criminal nature, that could end up destroying people's lives and a huge ministry without accountability.
Hope this gives you a better understanding Erik. Again it is just my understanding of the situation. I certainly don't know all that the law demands on this subject.
Until you apply your statement about Christ to the others on this board who say they have first hand evidence, you only show your partiality to that side. Have you applied your statement to sister who has given a large percentage of the information that has been posted. Certainly down through the months, everyone else has carried on with it but we are talking origination. Sonshineonme and watchbird also speak (by their own admission) for Linda. Have you applied your statement to them also?
Sorry, criticism just for my identity doesn't fly here, when there are so many others. Just happens, I am on the wrong side, so receive all the flak. That's ok I can take it.

This post has been edited by Richard Sherwin: Feb 27 2007, 03:35 PM

[LaurenceD]

Until you apply your statement about Christ to the others on this board who say they have first hand evidence, you only show your partiality to that side. Have you applied your statement to sister who has given a large percentage of the information that has been posted. Certainly down through the months, everyone else has carried on with it but we are talking origination. Sonshineonme and watchbird also speak (by their own admission) for Linda. Have you applied your statement to them also?

I realize you'd like to quickly shift attention to another card, but your card is on the table right now. Focus.

As for your knowlegdge of internet liable, slander, and defamation, I'd suggest you take your case to JudgeJudy.com. You may want to consider new counsel also. There's several dozens of things you haven't thought of yet.

This post has been edited by LaurenceD: Feb 27 2007, 03:51 PM

[Observer]

Truthfully, Erik, I hope they do something similar to what you are saying as far as the church goes. That will not stop what goes forward in a court of law. Everyone thinks because papers have not been served legally or because the evidence LS requests has not "popped" up, that nothing is happening. There are many on here that claim to be "educated" yet doesn't have the sense to know that the wheels of justice turn slowly, but they do turn. When everything is in order, then we will see what we will see.
Also, Erik, to address what you were saying about counter suing and all that: If 3abn brings a suit against slanderous statements that are false, that is what the suit is about, period. 3abn might or might not have to prove that the said allegations are false for it to be considered slander. I don't know the legal rules as far as slander goes. If proof must be shown that the allegations are false, obviously they have no problem with that, or, they wouldn't be doing it.
Now, let's use princess Dr Re since she gave a rousing speech that "she wouldn't play" and she would end up with money for her education and so on.....We shall use her in a hypothetical situation. If she was served with papers from 3abn for making slanderous statements, she would be required to come to court, wherever that might be....It could be very likely that it wouldn't be in her state, so she would have to pay her own expenses for travel...Once there, the 3abn attorneys would put her on a witness stand and would show her, what, if any, allegations and/or slanderous and liable remarks that she had made during the course of however many months that she had been making them. Now, she would have to admit making them (after all they would have been taking them right off of her posts), so, If 3abn has to prove the accusations are false, that action would take place next. They would have to go down the list of slanderous statements that princess made, one at a time, and show proof that the allegations were false. If they can prove the statements are lies, then princess is held accountable legally, and financially for her part in hurting a ministry and the reputations of those involved.
Now if 3abn doesn't have to prove the allegations are false and only have to show where said allegations have hurt the ministry and the people that run that ministry, then it ends a lot sooner and princess is still held to the same accountability. Either way, she is found liable . The only way she would be found innocent was if she could prove that she didn't make those statements, (as in someone made them under her name) or if she could prove that her statements in no way, hurt anyone or hurt the ministry. That would be pretty much impossible.
Now she talks about getting money from 3abn. For what? If she countersued what grounds would she counter on? If proven in court that she made slanderous statements that directly contributed to some kind of loss to the ministry and the individuals involved and was found guilty of such, what is she going to counter sue on? She wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Even if she tried she would be responsible for all of her own legal fees over the period of time that the suit took place and in the end, she would have no grounds to stand on anyway. Instead of getting money awarded, she would be out thousands and thousands of dollars for a suit that had no basis. (I am sure it would never go that far, because a legit attorney would know this from the get go an refuse to take a losing case.)As observer always points out, I am certainly am not a legal expert, but am giving my opinion based on my understanding of this situation.

Another point I wanted to make to you is a suit for slander is a suit for slander. You are not allowed to bring in all kinds of other things. If a person is charged with murder, evidence of a possible robbery that he may have done that has absolutely no bearing on the murder trial, cannot be brought up. that would be a separate case altogether.
Another important thing to think about is, that whoever is charged with slander and served papers, will not only have to pay their own transportation fees to whatever state or city, they will have to pay an attorney to defend them unless they want to be their own defense. Many attorneys, now days, charge 500.00 an hour. In my opinion, there is no way I would want to involve myself and others in something so serious just to be able to "air" my opinions in a chat room. It is one thing to say He might have, or she may have it is quite another to refer to specific individuals as Pedophiles, embezzlers, child molesters, adulterers, liars ...that is where it gets serious, especially, if you are wrong and making these judgments and statements on the heresay of others and can be proven that what you are involved in has caused harm to the organization and public figures involved.
As far as your suggestion where the church is concerned, I would like to see something like that happen, and it might, in time. I think though that the panel should consists of 4 or 5 well known and well respected individuals in the denomination. If there is evidence against LS it could be presented and then a public statement could be made as to the panels conclusions. It is my understanding that LS had a chance to do this with the 3abn board and did not.
Regardless of what is done, it all takes time and organization. It is ridiculous to think because 3abn hasn't responded to a demand from LS a week ago, that they have nothing or will not do nothing. A week is nothing, just like in the legal system. Many times trials take years to get through.
I wish with all my heart that no one would have to go through anything like this, but people cannot go around making statements of accusation, some of a criminal nature, that could end up destroying people's lives and a huge ministry without accountability.
Hope this gives you a better understanding Erik. Again it is just my understanding of the situation. I certainly don't know all that the law demands on this subject.
Until you apply your statement about Christ to the others on this board who say they have first hand evidence, you only show your partiality to that side. Have you applied your statement to sister who has given a large percentage of the information that has been posted. Certainly down through the months, everyone else has carried on with it but we are talking origination. Sonshineonme and watchbird also speak (by their own admission) for Linda. Have you applied your statement to them also?
Sorry, criticism just for my identity doesn't fly here, when there are so many others. Just happens, I am on the wrong side, so receive all the flak. That's ok I can take it.

Bystander has posted a mixture of information. Some of it is true. However, it appears to me to be somewhat deficient in application, as well as in legal knowledge. That is evident in what appears to be a failure to recognize the legal difference between slander and libel. The three legal issues in the above post are slander, libel, and defamation of character.

Bystander is correct that the wheels of justice revolve very slowly at times. The fact that various people have not been served, or litigation filed, does not mean that it will not be filed.

Litigation is only about the litigated issue. A trademark case may (?) depending on various issues, not be about any of the content, but only the use of a trademark. If a libel case is filed over a statement that X robbed a bank, the court will not consider a statement that X filed a false income tax return.

However, my personal prediction, and speaking an a person without legal training, is that attorneys for the plaintiff will attempt to keep the case very narrow, and attorneys for the defendant will seek to expand it. Folks, that can happen. It can happen due to testimony admitted into court. It can happen due to errors by an attorney. It can happen. I do not predict how such litigation will develop. No one else can predict such with 100 per-cent reliability.

There is another factor that Bystander did not consider. Those who believe that litigation may soon begin, are making plans to defend those who are served papers. It remains to be seen what will happen. I can not predict how the defense will develop. But, I can say to Bystander that it may develop in ways that he did not mention in his post. Only time will tell.

[Richard Sherwin]

The ONLY reason for 3abn and Danny taking anyone to court is so that their lawyers can speak for them on their terms in a tightly controlled venue. If they really wanted the truth to be known they could just state it on here or on their web site. If Danny really wanted the truth to get out there would not be any need for the courts. They are just so sad and pitiful. It's all about the money IMO.

Richard

[LaurenceD]

The court system is already plugged with frivolous law suits. Judges throw them out, typically, and tell the disturbed parties to settle their differences on the street where they belong. Bystander seems fairly street-smart.

I still think this one would do well on Judge Judy's TV show.

[princessdi]

The court system is already plugged with frivolous law suits. Judges throw them out, typically, and tell the disturbed parties to settle their differences on the street where they belong. Bystander seems fairly street-smart.

I still think this one would do well on Judge Judy's TV show.

[Richard Sherwin]

I think we would know the truth because of what you stated. There are many who have not come forward. They could vouch for Danny if he were to tell the truth. But also there are many on here, like Johann who were there during much of what was supposed to have taken place. And then there are those like HOTY and Sister who can verify certain facts I believe.

My fear is that the only reason Danny would take anyone to court would be because his high priced lawyers feel they could control the proceeding so that the outcome would be weighed in their favor.

I believe in the power of prayer, and the Holy Spirit in changing hearts and lives. Danny's heart can be reached, if he will let God do it.

Richard

At this point, would you really know if or what is truth if it came from DS? I'm not sure he knows how to tell the straight truth. He mixes a little truth with a lot of error. I think the court room is the only place for the real truth to come out now. AND, many who have come together here to tell their stories. What DS doesn't realize (or maybe he does) is there are MANY who are here...not all have spoken yet. What has worked and still works here is how many tellings of expiriences from those that have shared so far here fit together so well without anyone forcing it. It just comes together, because truth is what it is - truth. You can't just change truth as some have tried. It is what it is.

This post has been edited by Richard Sherwin: Feb 27 2007, 06:32 PM

[sonshineonme]

I think we would know the truth because of what you stated. There are many who have not come forward. They could vouch for Danny if he were to tell the truth. But also there are many on here, like Johann who were there during much of what was supposed to have taken place. And then there are those like HOTY and Sister who can verify certain facts I believe.

My fear is that the only reason Danny would take anyone to court would be because his high priced lawyers feel they could control the proceeding so that the outcome would be weighed in their favor.

I believe in the power of prayer, and the Holy Spirit in changing hearts and lives. Danny's heart can be reached, if he will let God do it.

Richard

You are correct on all points Richard.
There are many here besides Johann and Sister....many. Some have spoken and some have not. Some you are not aware of their connection and they could make it known, and may.
Yes, Danny may be willing to go to court if he feels he could win (obviously that is the only reason he would go), but like Observer has said, that outcome is still very unprediciable, and no matter what, it will be out in the public forum, regardless of a court proceeding.
As for the power of prayer, I believe in it very much myself. You are correct, Danny's heart can change. Lets hope that's what happens. And I would say if that does happen, there will be NO DOUBT about it to all that have been trampled on as well as the general sda public. It will take more then mere words for it to be evident. The fruit of that conversion will be actions.

[Richard Sherwin]

Why would a court proceeding be out of the public forum, or did I misunderstand you? I thought all court proceedings are public. (Although I've been a jury member and foremen a couple times I still don't know that much about them since I've never watched Law and Order Or any other prime time shows for that matter)

You are correct on all points Richard.
There are many here besides Johann and Sister....many. Some have spoken and some have not. Some you are not aware of their connection and they could make it known, and may.
Yes, Danny may be willing to go to court if he feels he could win (obviously that is the only reason he would go), but like Observer has said, that outcome is still very unprediciable, and no matter what, it will be out in the public forum, regardless of a court proceeding.
As for the power of prayer, I believe in it very much myself. You are correct, Danny's heart can change. Lets hope that's what happens. And I would say if that does happen, there will be NO DOUBT about it to all that have been trampled on as well as the general sda public. It will take more then mere words for it to be evident. The fruit of that conversion will be actions.

[PrincessDrRe]

.....Now, let's use princess Dr Re since she gave a rousing speech that "she wouldn't play" and she would end up with money for her education and so on.....We shall use her in a hypothetical situation. If she was served with papers from 3abn for making slanderous statements, she would be required to come to court, wherever that might be....It could be very likely that it wouldn't be in her state, so she would have to pay her own expenses for travel...Once there, the 3abn attorneys would put her on a witness stand and would show her, what, if any, allegations and/or slanderous and liable remarks that she had made during the course of however many months that she had been making them. Now, she would have to admit making them (after all they would have been taking them right off of her posts), so, If 3abn has to prove the accusations are false, that action would take place next. They would have to go down the list of slanderous statements that princess made, one at a time, and show proof that the allegations were false. If they can prove the statements are lies, then princess is held accountable legally, and financially for her part in hurting a ministry and the reputations of those involved.
Now if 3abn doesn't have to prove the allegations are false and only have to show where said allegations have hurt the ministry and the people that run that ministry, then it ends a lot sooner and princess is still held to the same accountability. Either way, she is found liable . The only way she would be found innocent was if she could prove that she didn't make those statements, (as in someone made them under her name) or if she could prove that her statements in no way, hurt anyone or hurt the ministry. That would be pretty much impossible.
Now she talks about getting money from 3abn. For what? If she countersued what grounds would she counter on? If proven in court that she made slanderous statements that directly contributed to some kind of loss to the ministry and the individuals involved and was found guilty of such, what is she going to counter sue on? She wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Even if she tried she would be responsible for all of her own legal fees over the period of time that the suit took place and in the end, she would have no grounds to stand on anyway. Instead of getting money awarded, she would be out thousands and thousands of dollars for a suit that had no basis. (I am sure it would never go that far, because a legit attorney would know this from the get go an refuse to take a losing case.)As observer always points out, I am certainly am not a legal expert, but am giving my opinion based on my understanding of this situation.

Thank you for using me as an "example" demonic force of Satan. Satan the LORD rebuke you in the name of JESUS.

Now.

Try me.

I would counter-sue on the fact that it is a "fluff" lawsuit - used as a means of mainpulation or "shutting up folks" if you will. The fact remains that I am speaking about actions, statements, and ideas that are being investigated, have been investigated...and lastly..... The man himself (Tommy Shelton) will not deny per his own letters/writings and out his own mouth!!! Even that of his wife!!! Since the lawyers that I will have to hire for this "impending" slander suit will have all of their evidence in discovery and can call whom they want as witnesses per the witness list - I will call Tommy Shelton himself. Once he confirms that he did write letters that ask for "forgiveness" for his acts that will be the end of the trial.....

Now.

Try me.

Get a lawsuit going. Do it. Again.... you really don't want to see how the LORD handles those that "mess" with his children. I am a child of the LORD....and the LORD never "threatened" folks. He told them what would happen and he followed through unless they changed their ways.....

Satan the LORD rebuke you in the name of JESUS. I do not fear you or your trumpted up threats of lawsuit. GOD and his son JESUS will prevail.



BTW: I got airline miles up the wazoo...so my travel will be free.... and I have three attorneys' in my home conference, know one up here that would have no problem representing me Pro Bono, and finally......

the LORD will rebuke Satan. In the end his child will have victory. If you play with a child of the LORD you will fail.

This post has been edited by PrincessDrRe: Feb 28 2007, 08:48 PM

[Lee]

Bystander is not a "demonic force of Satan," nor is he Satan.

Please be careful with name calling PDR, I believe the rules of this forum do not allow people to stoop to name-calling.

Thank you.

[LaurenceD]

1 Corinthians 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. 5I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 6But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. 7Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? 8Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.

Matthew 5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

If you're not of God, unfortunately, there's only one choice left.

[Johann]

Thank you for using me as an "example" demonic force of Satan. Satan the LORD rebuke you in the name of JESUS.

Now.

Try me.

I would counter-sue on the fact that it is a "fluff" lawsuit - used as a means of mainpulation or "shutting up folks" if you will. The fact remains that I am speaking about actions, statements, and ideas that are being investigated, have been investigated...and lastly..... [size]The man himself (Tommy Shelton) will not deny per his own letters/writings and out his own mouth!!! Even that of his wife!!![/size] Since the lawyers that I will have to hire for this "impending" slander suit will have all of their evidence in discovery and can call whom they want as witnesses per the witness list - I will call Tommy Shelton himself. Once he confirms that he did write letters that ask for "forgiveness" for his acts that will be the end of the trial.....

Now.

Try me.

Get a lawsuit going. Do it. Again.... you really don't want to see how the LORD handles those that "mess" with his children. I am a child of the LORD....and the LORD never "threatened" folks. He told them what would happen and he followed through unless they changed their ways.....

Satan the LORD rebuke you in the name of JESUS. I do not fear you or your trumpted up threats of lawsuit. GOD and his son JESUS will prevail.



BTW: I got airline miles up the wazoo...so my travel will be free.... and I have three attorneys' in my home conference, know one up here that would have no problem representing me Pro Bono, and finally......

the LORD will rebuke Satan. In the end his child will have victory. If you play with a child of the LORD you will fail.

I get the impression that a number of good lawyers are reading, even studying, this thread, even indicating willingness to come to the aid of those attacked by the dannyscribes, if needed.

Bystander is not a "demonic force of Satan," nor is he Satan.

Please be careful with name calling PDR, I believe the rules of this forum do not allow people to stoop to name-calling.

Thank you.

Lee, you really must forgive Re for judging by appearance. This is, after all, a general human weakness.