Definition Of Molestation, Penetration, Fondling, and Forced Sexual Viewing Options

[Seraphim7]

Hi Seraph/m, thanks for the welcome…
...

So yes, all healing is Divine in origin, but some (like myself) whose abuse was at least partially attributed to God or His will (and much of the alleged abuse discussed here falls into that category) cannot immediately see God as the healer, since He was a big part of the problem (because of the abusers misrepresentation of Him). Yet in my experience the principles of emotional healing can be taught to them by professionals or a recovery group and practiced by them and healing can begin, whether or not they are “accepting Jesus as their Savior”. With me, the healing had to start first, then I began to be able to see the flaws in what I was taught about God, which then led to a new relationship with Him, which led to more healing… and so on.

Everyone’s journey is different, and none of us can speak for all of us. I am not trying to argue with what you said, just giving my perspective.

shepherdswife

I respect and appreciate where you are, as it relates to your experience, and thank you for your response. I am sorry to hear your experience drew you to see God as a big part of the problem. God have mercy on the souls of those who used Him as a means to prey on you and other victims. I agree that each of our experiences will be different and I thank the Lord Jesus for all He has done in our lives to bring us to the place where we are today. Remembering that every good thing comes from God.

Be Blessed,

Sera

This post has been edited by seraph|m: Apr 28 2007, 11:08 AM

[Fran]

Shepherdswife


Though I agree with much of what you have shared, in principle, I must ask the following. Did you mean to preface the above comments with question marks?

It has been my experience that some can forgive and forget and yes be healed of the brokenness they experience after being abused. Though that process will likely take years, if it happens at all, when the issue of their abuse are kept secret or, swept under the rug by those they love and trust and, the victim is not acknowledged as such or, given the opportunity to work through the pain, suffering and guilt that usually comes, in most cases, after one has been abused.

A victim can forgive, heal and move on with his/her life, though doing so, in most cases, is a very long process. Forgetting is also possible, through the renewing of our minds, which can ONLY be done through Christ Jesus. Forgetting, in the sense that the victim, through the healing process does not allow those memories to determine how he/she views every other aspect of life. Nor will the prior memories continually affect the decisions made in their lives. (I am sure you did not intended suggest it however, your statement could be read to mean "all decisions" seeing that you were not specific.) What will ultimately determine a persons ability to move on with his/her life is whether he/she has surrendered themselves to God and has allowed Him, through the Holy Spirit, to let this mind be in them that was also in Christ Jesus. To finish my thought on forgetting... it is possible in the sense that all decisions made will not be overshadowed by the memories of their experience. Whether in social relationships, areas like friendships, school, work. dating etc. they can make decisions that are based in the fact that their minds have been renewed, after one has surrendered to the Lord. Some victims attempt to move forward on simple will power and, though it is admirable that some try to move forward and not let their experience permeate every aspect of their lives, will power can not do what only Jesus Christ the righteous can.

Finally, bear in mind most of us are aware that everyone who has been a victim, of any kind, has not nor will they all accept Christ Jesus as their personal Savior. I am simply pointing out that the freedom to forgive and forget IS possible for anyone who makes the choice to make Jesus their personal Savior. Our challenge as believers is, if we daily submit our as we should, is to let our light so shine before men that they might see your good works and glorify our Father in heaven. The victims around us could very well be drawn to know Christ Jesus, who will be seen through the light of our lives. And the burdens they carry will be lifted, as we bear them up showing them love, compassion and acceptance. That's my 2cents worth.

Again, welcome and be blessed.

I read your post and am so thankful you have been able to forgive, move on, and forget. I do not question that you have done just what you said.

I personally hope victims will never forget. Forgive, move on, but never forget. This is denying reality. It did happen. If they forget, how can they help others to Forgive and move on? It is through sharing your forgiveness and showing others it is possible to move on that helps other victims.

Many victims accept abuse because they believe everyone lives a life like theirs. They see nice people, but can't accept that that is a real situation. They are convinced that everyone is abused and this is a reality of life, so they are silent. All of those other women in the Church don't complain, why should you.

Most of the victims of abuse wouldn't know what to do and who to tell because of these thoughts. I have never heard a sermon about child abuse, spousal abuse, self abuse, or workplace abuse. There needs to be information in all of our churches telling members where they can go for help. That would NOT be the pastor of the church. It would be a number with no name. You do not have to leave your number. You can just talk and get information. From there it can lead to life changing results.

I hope victims will never forget so they can be there to help others. But that is just my opinion. My opinion in no way intended to diminish you opinion. In this life, many opinions are good.

[ex3ABNemployee]

So yes, all healing is Divine in origin, but some (like myself) whose abuse was at least partially attributed to God or His will (and much of the alleged abuse discussed here falls into that category) cannot immediately see God as the healer, since He was a big part of the problem (because of the abusers misrepresentation of Him). Yet in my experience the principles of emotional healing can be taught to them by professionals or a recovery group and practiced by them and healing can begin, whether or not they are “accepting Jesus as their Savior”. With me, the healing had to start first, then I began to be able to see the flaws in what I was taught about God, which then led to a new relationship with Him, which led to more healing… and so on.

Everyone’s journey is different, and none of us can speak for all of us. I am not trying to argue with what you said, just giving my perspective.

shepherdswife

I'm glad you added that last paragraph. I'm tired of people telling me I "need" to go talk to a "professional" to "help" me through. How in the world can a "professional" help a sexual abuse victim if they've never experienced sexual abuse?

This is a real sore spot with me.

[princessdi]

Duane, it might be easier than you think to find one who is a survivor......just a thought......

I'm glad you added that last paragraph. I'm tired of people telling me I "need" to go talk to a "professional" to "help" me through. How in the world can a "professional" help a sexual abuse victim if they've never experienced sexual abuse?

This is a real sore spot with me.

[ex3ABNemployee]

Duane, it might be easier than you think to find one who is a survivor......just a thought......

Maybe so...but I am not interested AT ALL in professional counseling.

[Seraphim7]

Obviously we did not grasp what was stated in my post and I am sure it was not your intent to read into my post what is not there.

I read your post and am so thankful you have been able to forgive, move on, and forget. I do not question that you have done just what you said.

I personally hope victims will never forget. Forgive, move on, but never forget. This is denying reality. It did happen. If they forget, how can they help others to Forgive and move on? It is through sharing your forgiveness and showing others it is possible to move on that helps other victims.

...
Let's try this again...

Forgetting, in the sense that the victim, through the healing process does not allow those memories to determine how he/she views every other aspect of life. Nor will the prior memories continually affect the decisions made in their lives.

I hope victims will never forget so they can be there to help others. But that is just my opinion. My opinion in no way intended to diminish you opinion. In this life, many opinions are good.

To finish my thought on forgetting... it is possible in the sense that all decisions made will not be overshadowed by the memories of their experience.

It is clear, unless one has had a lobotomy or, has had some sort of long/short term memory issues, he or she will have "memories" of things that have happened in their lives. The point is, those memories do not have to dictate how a victim moves on with his or her life.

I can only hope that helps

This post has been edited by seraph|m: Apr 28 2007, 11:37 PM

[Shepherdswife]

Hey Duane, that is a good question. I would first of all say that I agree with you--no one else can tell you how you "should" feel or heal or what you need to do. There are all kinds of resources out there--books, groups, counselors, other survivors, and nothing is for everyone. I have taken advantage of various resources at various times, for various needs. It is a journey.

As to your other question--"How in the world can a "professional" help a sexual abuse victim if they've never experienced sexual abuse?" Many professionals have been drawn to helping professions because they have experienced abuse and want to help others, so the two are not mutually exclusive. But healing does not require a professional. I found a really interesting article by Dr. Bruce Perry, the pediatric psychiatrist who specializes in the effects of trauma on children--the one who was called in to help the kids who were released from the Waco compound before their families died in the fire. The entire article is fascinating, and I will put the web address below, but will quote his conclusions here...

"We learned that some of the most therapeutic experiences do not take place in "therapy," but in naturally occurring healthy relationships, whether between a professional like myself and a child, between an aunt and a scared little girl or between a calm Texas Ranger and an excitable boy. The children who did best after the Davidian apocalypse were not those who experienced the least stress or those who participated most enthusiastically in talking with us at the cottage. They were the ones who were released afterwards into the healthiest and most loving worlds, whether it was with family who still believed in the Davidian ways or with loved ones who rejected Koresh entirely. In fact, the research on the most effective treatments to help child trauma victims might be accurately summed up this way: what works best is anything that increases the quality and number of relationships in the child's life.

I also saw how bringing disparate groups together—even those with conflicting missions—could often be effective. Dozens of state, federal and local agencies had worked together to care for these children. The power of proximity—spending time side-by-side—had pulled us all to compromise in our efforts to help.

Relationships matter: the currency for systemic change was trust, and trust comes through forming healthy working relationships. People, not programs, change people. The cooperation, respect and collaboration we experienced gave us hope that we could make a difference, even though the raids themselves had ended in such catastrophe. The seeds of a new way of working with traumatized children were sown in the ashes of Waco."


This is encouraging to me--because we can all be part of this kind of healing.

shepherdswife



Read the entire article at:
http://www.psychotherapynetworker.org/inde...aven&page=1

[mozart]

Maybe so...but I am not interested AT ALL in professional counseling.

my prespective on forgetting is that "once you have addressed and settled the issue and gotten it straight within yourself" then you only remember that you are a victim for the sake of others. i think one should purpose themselves to refuse to dwell on it, think on it, relive it or stay angry or bitter about it. i think we should only remember that we were a victim for the sake of other victims or for the sake of aiding in the prevention of further victims. forget the details. for you own sake, you need to become emotionally "indifferent" to the details. don't speak of them unless it is nessassary or beneficial to others.
today while out on a beautiful day's drive we came across about 8 or 9 bikers. they passed us and we saw the big emblem on their leather vest that said "BACA", Bikers Against Child Abuse. they were going our way so we ended up following them to our exit where they also exited, to go into a local chinese buffet style restaurant. i said, "pull over, i want to give them some money and a book". we keep "steps to Christ" and "the great controversy" paperbacks in both our vehicles all the time. i got a $20. bill and put it between the pages of "the great controversy" and walked over and handed it to one of the women. i said, "here's a few bucks to help pay for your dinner". she gave me a long, huge, tight hug and a kiss on the cheek. i whispered i was a victim and this was a small token of my appreciation for what they are doing. a couple more guys came over and we talked about what they had done that day. they were on an "awareness ride" that was planned for this week-end, worldwide, by all their chapters from here to australia. they said they had all met at a nearby town at a shop where custom bikes were built and they had a ceremony where they released white balloons for all the victims of each state and red balloons for all the victims in our state that died last year because of abuse. it was very moving. they were precious and loving people and i'm so glad the Lord impressed me to stop and talk to them. as i walked away the lady smiled and said, "i'll put this in with the rest of our donations". ; )
there website is : http://www.bacausa.com --- check them out.
you hang in there DC and know there is lots of love and support out here for ya. remember the "IGGY" button. God bless.

This post has been edited by mozart: Apr 29 2007, 10:05 AM

[Observer]

I'm glad you added that last paragraph. I'm tired of people telling me I "need" to go talk to a "professional" to "help" me through. How in the world can a "professional" help a sexual abuse victim if they've never experienced sexual abuse?

This is a real sore spot with me.

Duane:

Everyone has their own journey to make. All must make their choices as to how they walk that path.

You raise a valid point: Some of the people best able to help another are thse who have walked that path before, and can share their journey. e.g. Some of the best alcoholism counselors are those who are alcoholics themselves. Some of the best divorce recovery people are those who have gone through divorce themself. Having said that, some pepople may work well with those who have not personally gone through a specific experience.

Another imoportant issue is that of getting the right counselor for the person seeking counseling. The bottom line is that no counselor is equally effective for everyone. There has to be a good match between the counselor and the counselee. What (Who) works for one person may not work for another.

Maybe so...but I am not interested AT ALL in professional counseling.

Duane:

That is your choice. You are responsible for your life. We welcome you here without judging you for in regard to whether or not you chose to seek professional coujnseling.

Please continue to grace us withe your presence and comments.

[watchbird]

I'm glad you added that last paragraph. I'm tired of people telling me I "need" to go talk to a "professional" to "help" me through. How in the world can a "professional" help a sexual abuse victim if they've never experienced sexual abuse?

This is a real sore spot with me.

I think it might soothe your "sore spot" on this issue if you realized that many of those who speak of going to a professional counselor are using the word "professional" to distinguish between the true professional and those who claim to be "counselors" who are little more than judgemental busybodies sure that they have all the answers to all the questions in the world, and the right and obligation to tell everyone what they can do.

A true professional is not primarily there to give answers... or even "help" in the sense of doing for you what you can only do for yourself. But a true professional is there to be an anchor point... a safe place... a listening and kindly ear.... while you work your way through your thoughts and feelings surrounding your previous experiences.... not only the abusive ones, but also in exploring the ways in which those may have affected your life since then.

Not every one needs such an anchor... and you may be one of those who do not. Or you may be one of those who already has such an anchor in friends or family.. or even in a solid enough relationship with Jesus Christ so He alone is sufficient anchor for you. And you may, by yourself, with the aid of books and self-help materials, be able to recognize all of the ways in which this has affected your life... and in which it may be expected to continue to affect it. This latter being especially important as it gives one clues as to what areas of life one needs to be especially on guard.

Personally, I found much more help in various "self-help" materials... especially those that had a lot of personal experience examples for me to compare myself to.... than in any professional counselling. But since the abuse I had as a teen was of a much more subtle psychological and spiritual kind rather than overt sexual or physical abuse I can only extrapolate from the process I went through to what I would consider must be a much greater process for those with much greater abuse histories.

With God's blessing you will find your way ...

[Shepherdswife]

Great post, Watchbird!!

[PrincessDrRe]

I'm glad you added that last paragraph. I'm tired of people telling me I "need" to go talk to a "professional" to "help" me through. How in the world can a "professional" help a sexual abuse victim if they've never experienced sexual abuse?

This is a real sore spot with me.

That is why I do what I do. I'm a survivor....and I help other survivors....

Duane, it might be easier than you think to find one who is a survivor......just a thought......

ITA! *(see my above post)*

Maybe so...but I am not interested AT ALL in professional counseling.

Whether you get there by boat, plane, bus, or train - the "journey" can be made in different ways....

Blessings to you!

[ex3ABNemployee]

That is why I do what I do. I'm a survivor....and I help other survivors....

There needs to be a lot more like you. A survivor is the ONLY one, other than God Himself, who can know how it feels to be here.

Thank you for the work that you do. I pray God's richest blessings on it.

[PrincessDrRe]

There needs to be a lot more like you. A survivor is the ONLY one, other than God Himself, who can know how it feels to be here.

Thank you for the work that you do. I pray God's richest blessings on it.

You don't know how much just this post blessed me today of all days...
Blessings to you too Duane!

[PrincessDrRe]

Bump! Definition stays on top....