Things That Make You Go Hmmm..., --letters on save 3ABN not -- contradict earlier testimony here Options

[Aletheia]

Bob,

AFAIC The more letters you publish the more it calls into account the credibility and truthfulness of the previous testimony on this forum.

Let's start here.

Bob Pickle posted on Dec 26 2006, 09:28 AM:
.....

Regarding furnishings and such, that stems from an email from Walt Thompson, posted courtesy of Gregory Matthews:

(Walt Thompson)
".....He bought her interest in the house, helped her move to Southern Illinois, build a porch on her home there, gave her all of the things in their home including things that were really his. (He did these things with money obtained in a loan from a friend.) Over and over again he took her out to eat and did many other things to show how much he really cared for her. In fact, many of the employees and some of us on the board were concerned because of how she was leading him on and keeping him in turmoil. Over and over, she threatened him, saying, that if she was going down, she would bring him and the ministry down with him."

Since Danny was the sole source of Walt's information about the Tommy Shelton child molestation allegations, we can assume that Danny is possibly the sole source of his information here.

Now notice the following quote from a person that I will not name:

6) Yes, he did buy my half of the house.

7) Well, I guess if you can call bringing truckloads of my clothes and dumping them on my living room floor "helping me move" to Carbondale, then he helped me move. At that time I was locked out of the house and the only things I got were the things he allowed me to have.

8) Yes, he did build a porch on to my mobile home in Carbondale.

9) No, he did not give me "all of the things in the home..." He has all of the furniture, the boat, the jacuzzi, the sauna, about 18 Gibson guitars, the horses, horse trailor, etc...subject to divorce case which is pending.

10) We did meet occasionally in Marion at a restaurant to discuss the issues.

...

Aletheia, if you would be so kind, why don't you start another thread where we can hash out other issues other than questions that need to be directed to Joe. I really don't want to get into he said, she said here. How could we prove whether Danny gave the furnishings or not?

....

Here you go Bob..

----- Original Message -----
From: ****
To: ~ Cindy
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 12:41 AM

"I was in the house some time after she moved out and she had taken almost everything including stripping the walls of everything. I asked DS why he had let her take practically everything when actually he had paid her his share for it, he said , well I know, but she wanted it.....And people say he didn't love her and just wanted to dump her!!!! Yes, I remember they got a truck, a Uhaul or something"

Excerpt from Newest letter published on Save3ABN:

-------- Original Message --------
From: Danny Shelton
To: Linda Shelton
Date: Monday, September 06, 2004 12:17 AM

...

Alyssa said you wanted to move on Sunday the 19th.

I have a board meeting that day so it won't work to get the rest of the furniture out of my house. You have lots of books too that need moving.

I guess if they took everything early in the day on the truck that's already loaded maybe they could load up the furniture at my house late in the day.

There's alot more...

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Mar 22 2007, 07:44 AM

[Clay]

For whose benefit are you sharing this? Or let me ask another way, do you really think that those people who really believe that Danny, Tommy and others are guilty of something are going to be convinced by the "information" you are attempting to provide?

You have not been swayed that they are guilty and I suspect that those who believe that they are guilty are as firm in their position as are you.....

[Aletheia]

For whose benefit are you sharing this? Or let me ask another way, do you really think that those people who really believe that Danny, Tommy and others are guilty of something are going to be convinced by the "information" you are attempting to provide?

You have not been swayed that they are guilty and I suspect that those who believe that they are guilty are as firm in their position as are you.....

Well if Linda lies, how can you trust anything that's come from her? or those like Johann who bear testimony based on what she's told them?

Truth matters to those who have a heart for the Lord, Clay. Those are the ones I'm writing for.

[awesumtenor]

Well if Linda lies, how can you trust anything that's come from her? or those like Johann who bear testimony based on what she's told them?

Truth matters to those who have a heart for the Lord, Clay. Those are the ones I'm writing for.

Bystander and others in your camp have lied... more than once...and have been caught in their lies... and yet you have no problem trusting what they say... you, yourself have lied... yet you insist that people trust whay you say... so that dog is not hunting, Cindy.

You are not in a position to say who does or does not 'have a heart for the Lord'... and for the umpteenth time... your attacking Linda... or Pickle... or Gailon... or sister... or Duane Clem... or whoever... does not justify or vindicate Danny or Tommy or whoever.

In His service,
Mr. J

[Aletheia]

Bystander and others in your camp have lied... more than once...and have been caught in their lies... and yet you have no problem trusting what they say... you, yourself have lied... yet you insist that people trust whay you say... so that dog is not hunting, Cindy.

You are not in a position to say who does or does not 'have a heart for the Lord'... and for the umpteenth time... your attacking Linda... or Pickle... or Gailon... or sister... or Duane Clem... or whoever... does not justify or vindicate Danny or Tommy or whoever.

In His service,
Mr. J

I know that Bystander has admitted to being mistaken and moved to correct that, and I certainly wouldn't call that lying.

I have not lied either. I have no idea who else you are accusing of lying here....

And Mr J, even if what you say was true (it's not) didn't your Mama ever teach you 2 wrongs don't make a right? Using your own standard which you just posted, what you just wrote doesn't justify or vindicate her. Please try nnot to be so partial.

Linda lied. or Pickle did. I provided the evidence to show that. The thing about lies is they can be proven.

Where's your proof?

Also-- I did not say who does or does not have a heart for the Lord, as you claim. The bible plainly says God's people have a love of the truth. I am writing for them, whoever they may be.

later--

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Mar 22 2007, 08:29 AM

[awesumtenor]

I know that Bystander has admitted to being mistaken and moved to correct that, and I certainly wouldn't call that lying.

I have not lied either. I have no idea who else you are accusing of lying here....
And Mr J, even if what you say was true (it's not) didn't your Mama ever teach you 2 wrongs don't make a right?

Linda lied. or Pickle did. I provided the evidence to show that. The thing about lies is they can be proven. Where's your proof?

Also-- I did not say who does or does not have a heart for the Lord. The bible plainly says God's people have a love of the truth. I am writing for them, whoever they may be.

later--

Evidence of missteps, misstatements and outright fabrications by you and yours are extensively documented. You've seen them as everyone else has.

And what you claim as truth is largely spin and deflection. Not once have you or any in your camp provided the 'truth' you claim to have that convicts Linda and exonerates Danny. Until you do so, your attacks are an exercise in futility... not to mention inconsistent with your purported love of 'truth'.

And for all your camp's complaining about these 'oh so horrible discussions'... you do nothing but perpetuate them. If you have the 'truth' you claim, why do you not just post it and end them?

This question has been presented to you time and time and time again... and not a one of you has stepped up and provided anything verifiable... you claim to know about events... but amazingly when asked were you there and did you see it... the answer is consistently 'no... but I heard...'.


And yet you expect that to be deemed a more trustworthy report that that of people who *were* there.

And you think this silliness to be truth on your part... not to mention representative of God...



Not even close.

In His service,
Mr. J

[Clay]

why would one ask for proof when one will not accept the proof that has been provided?

Is the real request give me something else other than what has already been provided because I don't believe that "proof?"

The denial that some here who have come to Danny's defense have not been engaged in reality shaping, spin and/or distraction is interesting but rings hollow.... IMO.....

[Aletheia]

Mr J,

Unsupported accusations may be repeated over and over, and a hunded people may even jump up and repeat them also, but repetition will never establish them as the truth. Only facts and evidence can prove what is true or false.

Your unsupported accusations, and constant railings, aren't facts and evidence, they are only opinion, and say more about yourself then who you are attacking. You are entitled to your opinion, but it proves nothing.


Feel free to carry on and do what you must though...

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Mar 22 2007, 08:51 AM

[Clay]

Cindy said:

Unsupported accusations may be repeated over and over, and a hunded people may jump up and repeat it also, but repetition will never establish it as the truth. Only facts and evidence can prove what is true or false.

Your opinions, and unsupported accusations, and constant railings, aren't facts and evidence, sorry.

Of course the same can be said about your comments here..... as your attempt to establish yourself as credible has had its obstacles....

You stated if Linda lies how can you believe anything from her... so if a person is engaged in twisting the "facts" or spinning the story a certain way, how are they to be believed?

This post has been edited by Clay: Mar 22 2007, 08:51 AM

[Aletheia]

why would one ask for proof when one will not accept the proof that has been provided?

Is the real request give me something else other than what has already been provided because I don't believe that "proof?"

The denial that some here who have come to Danny's defense have not been engaged in reality shaping, spin and/or distraction is interesting but rings hollow.... IMO.....

That is a rather general statement, so I'm not sure what you are talking about specifically.

But Clay, respectfully, I think what you are calling proof, is evidence.

Evidence and or testimony for one side of an issue, may be rebutted.

If you were the one being falsely accused I am quite sure you would not call the evidence against you, "proof"

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Mar 22 2007, 09:00 AM

[awesumtenor]

Mr J,

Unsupported accusations may be repeated over and over, and a hunded people may even jump up and repeat them also, but repetition will never establish them as the truth. Only facts and evidence can prove what is true or false.

Your unsupported accusations, and constant railings, aren't facts and evidence, they are only opinion, and say more about yourself then who you are attacking. You are entitled to your opinion, but it proves nothing.
Feel free to carry on and do what you must though...

My observations of your behavior are not 'unsupported accusations'. Facts and evidence have been given to support said observations. You have attempted to rationalize said behavior but you have not been able to deny it...

As for your second statement... "physician, heal thyself..."

In His service,
Mr. J

[Clay]

That is a rather general statement, so I'm not sure what you are talking about specifically.

But Clay, respectfully, I think what you are calling proof, is evidence.

Evidence and or testimony for one side of an issue, may be rebutted.

If you were the one being falsely accused I am quite sure you would not call the evidence against you, "proof"

Cindy,
We are in the 3abn subforum, in a thread you started.... so my statement is not as general as it appears....

I know what proof is, and I know what evidence.... my position is that whatever the evidence is, because you don't believe Danny and others have done anything, you will not believe any of it because it does not agree with your perception.

Likewise if there was evidence of wrongdoing on Linda's part it would have surfaced by now.

However, that is not the core issue, which some people who have defended Danny continue to ignore. The sinple fact is this, even if Linda did every thing she was accused of, even if she was a modern day Gomer, she should not have been treated as she was. That's it in a nutshell for me. It seems to me that those who support Danny have condoned his initial treatment of her. I do not. His treatment lacked compassion, justice and humility... it did however include humiliation...

[Aletheia]

Cindy said:
Of course the same can be said about your comments here..... as your attempt to establish yourself as credible has had its obstacles....

You stated if Linda lies how can you believe anything from her... so if a person is engaged in twisting the "facts" or spinning the story a certain way, how are they to be believed?

Let me correct that please, I am not trying to establish myself as credible or anything else. I personally am nobody. I simply came here with questions. I read what was posted, as so many kept telling me to do. I have tried on my own, whenever possible, to find out what was, or was not credible by making inquiries of others, and trying to verify things. Others can do the same.



But I am not a witness. I am merely commenting on and posting about what has been presented here, and citing the material when I do so, which supports my understanding and conclusions. It seems to me, if people disagree, then that could be addressed and objected to, or rebutted, with other or further evidence, rather then taking issue with me personally.

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Mar 22 2007, 09:17 AM

[Clay]

Let me correct that please, I am not trying to establish myself as credible or anything else. I simply came here and read what was posted, as so many kept telling me to do, I tried on my own whenever possible to find out what was or was not credible by making inqiries of others, and trying to verify things. Others can do the same.
But I am not a witness. I am merely commenting on and posting about what has been presented here, and citing the material when I do so, which supports my understanding and conclusions. It seems to me, if people disagree, then that could be adressed and objected to, or rebutted rather then taking issue with me personally.

Cindy, your correction is problematic... you stated:

Truth matters to those who have a heart for the Lord, Clay. Those are the ones I'm writing for

so if you are writing for those who have a heart for the Lord, there must be some credibility. So how can you write for those, and yet not have a degree of credibility?

I have not made our discussion today personal, so I am assuming you are talking past tense?

I am not a witness either, I have only been following this story since it unfolded... and as I stated, even if Linda was the devil incarnate, she should not have been treated as she was..... do you not agree?

[HUGGINS130]

Let me correct that please, I am not trying to establish myself as credible or anything else. I simply came here and read what was posted, as so many kept telling me to do, I tried on my own whenever possible to find out what was or was not credible by making inqiries of others, and trying to verify things. Others can do the same.
But I am not a witness. I am merely commenting on and posting about what has been presented here, and citing the material when I do so, which supports my understanding and conclusions. It seems to me, if people disagree, then that could be adressed and objected to, or rebutted rather then taking issue with me personally.

No one is taking issue with you personally, all they have done is asked you to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have verifiable proof that Linda cheated...we have no proof, only what has been said, and as Clay pointed out, even if Linda did the things she has been accused of, in Christian Spirit, she should have never been treated in the manner that she was...What you are failing to understand is that it's not our business to make her look good and to make Danny look bad, as a ministry this should have been handled in a manner in which it was not...As for concrete evidence, Calvin said this long ago, none of us knows exactly what went on in their marriage, but as for spiritual adultery, that is not even close to coming to biblical grounds for divorce...Are you even married???