Lawsuit Secrecy, ...and other pieces of a bigger puzzle Options

[Jnana15]

[quote]quote name='Shiny Penny' date='May 3 2007, 04:17 PM' post='194040']

Actually, I'm a little surprised by your question...I thought here at BlackSDA we wanted to know everything. I'm asking questions. I'm hoping that I can get some answers. So far...the answers I've gotten have been vague or no answer at all. [quote][/quote]

Dig a little deeper and you will find the truth. Search other websites. That's how I stumbled onto this site, being nosey and seeking the truth.


[quote]About finding someone listed whom I know, well, most everyone around here is anonymous. So should I ask some of these people to identify themselves so that I determine whether I know them?[/quote]

I think that the Boss will tell you that this is a NO, NO. For a moment, you reminded me of someone who is banned from here.

[Shiny Penny]

Shiny Penny...your questions are innocent enough, but there's also something kinda fishy. We're not easily fooled. Why not do a little horse trading? We might answer your questions if you begin by answering ours. I posted two for you this morning on the other thread. Let us get to know you for a while first.

BTW, I looked at a shiny penny today, just for good measure, and I saw copper colored skin, and copper colored hair on the image. And a nice little mansion on the back side. I was reminded to follow the money...as sister would say.

LaurenceD - thanks for telling me that you had asked questions on another thread. I'm still new to navigating around bsda and had not seen your reply/questions. I've responded briefly on the other thread.

In that thread you asked me about my opinions. I'm not sure how my opinions will help anyone get to the truth (or facts). And what's more is my opinion is evolving as I learn more information or as I've taken more time to mull over the facts that I am aware of. So forgive me for not generously expressing my opinion.

An opinion is just what the person is thinking at the time, and not necessarily the truth of the matter. So pardon me for not expressing my opinion or not expressing it in detail.

My questions on this forum so far are about facts and about details. And I hope that if someone on this forum has the facts that they can be kind enough to share them. There are lots of opinions freely expressed that are not helpful to me in finding out the facts - or the truth.

Opinion vs fact --- at this point this is the question for me.

Shiny Penny

Dig a little deeper and you will find the truth. Search other websites. That's how I stumbled onto this site, being nosey and seeking the truth.
I think that the Boss will tell you that this is a NO, NO. For a moment, you reminded me of someone who is banned from here.

Jnana15 - I'm digging around here looking for the truth and finding some parts. Asking some questions and hoping to get closer to the whole. Thank you. Shiny Penny

[princessdi]

Shiny Penny, Start diggin in the pinned thread of the 3ABN forum. They are pinned and closed because they contain documents, emails, etc. That is your best bet.

[watchbird]

Perhaps you could go back to the source from which you heard this and ask more questions and bring us word of what you learn.
If this is of interest to you, perhaps you could do some original investigation and bring us word. Both Weimar and Amazing Facts have websites, so you could find contact information there. You might even find someone listed whom you know and to whom you could direct your questions.

AF merging with Weimar is of a passing interest to me. I had not heard about it before Pew's post, and was hoping that someone here could provide some information. I suppose I could try and do this research myself, but I doubt I will find the time to do so. I was hoping that someone on this site had information that could be shared with us all.

About finding someone listed whom I know, well, most everyone around here is anonymous. So should I ask some of these people to identify themselves so that I determine whether I know them?

Penny, you will learn more if you read more carefully. Please read what I said again.

I was talking about finding people on the Weimar and Amazing Facts websites... not here. Weimar, being a college, no doubt has a goodly number of their staff listed. Amazing Facts has a number of choices on their response form. These are all real names of real people.

I gave you directions so you could locate things for yourself here on BSDA rather than standing like a pan-handler on the street corner with his hand stretched out and a quavery call for donations. But when it comes to the Weimar deal... so far as I know, that has not been mentioned on BSDA before the recent mention. Facts regarding that will have to come from those involved. And they won't float in on cyberwings. Someone will have to find them and report to us here. It could be you as well as anyone else.

[Shiny Penny]

Penny, you will learn more if you read more carefully. Please read what I said again.

I was talking about finding people on the Weimar and Amazing Facts websites... not here. Weimar, being a college, no doubt has a goodly number of their staff listed. Amazing Facts has a number of choices on their response form. These are all real names of real people.

I gave you directions so you could locate things for yourself here on BSDA rather than standing like a pan-handler on the street corner with his hand stretched out and a quavery call for donations. But when it comes to the Weimar deal... so far as I know, that has not been mentioned on BSDA before the recent mention. Facts regarding that will have to come from those involved. And they won't float in on cyberwings. Someone will have to find them and report to us here. It could be you as well as anyone else.

Watchbird - Sister posted information about AF/Weimar - she obviously knows something, so maybe she could provide some facts that she was referring to? You have a way with words "a pan-handler on the street corner with his hand stretched out and a quavery call for donations." That is such a wonderful description, oh that I could live up to it...and so far donations are slim, but growing! Shiny Penny

[watchbird]

Watchbird - Sister posted information about AF/Weimar - she obviously knows something, so maybe she could provide some facts that she was referring to? You have a way with words "a pan-handler on the street corner with his hand stretched out and a quavery call for donations." That is such a wonderful description, oh that I could live up to it...and so far donations are slim, but growing! Shiny Penny

Well... if that is the reputation you want to build... just keep on the way you are... you're making great progress.

[PrincessDrRe]

Shiny Penny, Start diggin in the pinned thread of the 3ABN forum. They are pinned and closed because they contain documents, emails, etc. That is your best bet.

I agree.....

Well... if that is the reputation you want to build... just keep on the way you are... you're making great progress.

I also agree....

Although BSDA is a forum of "truth"...it is also a forum that requires READING.

1. Read the threads.
2. Ask questions.
3. Repeat - read the threads.
4. Ask questions.

The fact that you asked a question that is kinda "out of order" - (not asking "little things" first) states that you may be suspect. That is all....

[runner4him]

Why are the contents of the lawsuit against Pickle and Joy sealed? What does Danny and 3ABN have to hide?

I am assuming that the request to the court came from the long list of attorneys that Garwin McNeilus' money has bought and paid for, rather than from Pickle and Joy who have pushed for full disclosure in all matters: from Danny's divorce of Linda---without Biblical grounds---to his mismanagement of 3ABN and other covert activities. Why the secrecy if this is a simple matter of copyright infringement? What is it that 3ABN does not want the general public or the stockholders in the pews to know?

In the past Danny has only threaten lawsuits, claiming that financially he can drag anyone he chooses through the courts until they have been ruined and lost all their assets. His threats have always been nothing more than posturing, a paper tiger roaring loudly to frighten the underdog nipping at his ankles. Again I ask, why is he proceeding now? And more importantly, why the secrecy? What is Dan so afraid of Pickle and Joy discovering that he and McNeilus are now pulling out the big guns in an attempt to silence them and discredit any further information their investigation may bring to light or the means of spreading that information worldwide?

I know for a fact that the information that has been revealed to date concerning Danny Shelton and improprieties in the management of 3ABN on www.save3abn.org is only the tip of the iceberg in regard to what has actually taken place.

Donations have been down at 3ABN the entire first quarter. This fact was confirmed by Mollie Steenson on the Thursday night live, where the merger of 3ABN and Amazing Facts was announced. On the same program Danny also called out for the need of millions of dollars for the new merged organization. If both organizations are financially sound and will continue with their current operations at this time and merely combine their boards into one entity, why the sudden need for millions? Amazing Facts has speakers and potential programming, 3ABN already has the equipment and the studios, why the sudden need for millions of dollars pumped into the combined budget? What information is being withheld from the viewing public? Why has there been no information regarding the addition of other "self supporting" ministries to this new organization? Amazing Facts has been in negotiations with Weimar Institute and College to add them to the package. What other ministries will be brokered into the mix?

The matchmaker for the marriage of Amazing Facts and 3ABN was Garwin McNeilus. Garwin was the faceless man, in CA Murray's "dream", who did so much of the talking at the merger meeting in Colorado. He is the money man behind the scenes who pays for attorneys, provides locations for secret merger meetings, is the power and authority behind ASI and is silently building a new empire within the "self supporting ministries" of Adventism. This empire begins with the merging of 3ABN, Amazing Facts, Weimar Institute and College, and the support of unnamed persons and entities within ASI. The consortium that backs this marriage, headed by Garwin McNeilus, is a group of very wealthy SDA business men. Men who have money and desire for greater power. They made an attempt for a takeover in the running of OCI (Outposts Centers International) a little over 2 years ago, at that time the attempt failed. Now they build their base upon a broader foundation: 3ABN/Amazing Facts/Weimar Institute and College merger. What is their plan and what is their goal? And why is it so important for them to stop the investagations of Pickle and Joy?

Why the lawsuit now and the secrecy surrounding it's particulars? Follow the money trail...

Thank you Sister for all the above info. I just went to the save3abn web site and saw the new posting for today.....it is loaded! We can rejoice even in the midst of this mess which appears like a dark cloud hanging over the church and His people. Truth will prevail! Our God is an awesome God who IS able! Let us all bend the knee to Him and pray diligently so that we might see Him perform a wonderous work not only with the current legal situation but also in each of us.

[sonshineonme]

Thank you Sister for all the above info. I just went to the save3abn web site and saw the new posting for today.....it is loaded! We can rejoice even in the midst of this mess which appears like a dark cloud hanging over the church and His people. Truth will prevail! Our God is an awesome God who IS able! Let us all bend the knee to Him and pray diligently so that we might see Him perform a wonderous work not only with the current legal situation but also in each of us.

You are so right r4h!! (btw, I use to be a runner too!)
I just read up on the newest addition at save3abn, very exciting! Seems, Dan can't win either way.

[sonshineonme]

I agree.....

I also agree....

Although BSDA is a forum of "truth"...it is also a forum that requires READING.

1. Read the threads.
2. Ask questions.
3. Repeat - read the threads.
4. Ask questions.

The fact that you asked a question that is kinda "out of order" - (not asking "little things" first) states that you may be suspect. That is all....

such good points re, and as sp can see, many are pointing things out...hopefully, (shiny penny) listening and learning will take place....after all, we bsda'ers weren't born yesterday, now were we? We are pretty smart cookies, and we have seen it all here (well, we can always be more surprised I guess)....advice to SP, READ for yourself. That's what we do here. Then we discuss. I would try to follow this type of regime if I were you. Otherwise you will get more of the same you are getting now. Not much and ample suspicion....you don't want that now do you?

[LaurenceD]

LaurenceD - thanks for telling me that you had asked questions on another thread. I'm still new to navigating around bsda and had not seen your reply/questions. I've responded briefly on the other thread.

In that thread you asked me about my opinions. I'm not sure how my opinions will help anyone get to the truth (or facts). And what's more is my opinion is evolving as I learn more information or as I've taken more time to mull over the facts that I am aware of. So forgive me for not generously expressing my opinion.

An opinion is just what the person is thinking at the time, and not necessarily the truth of the matter. So pardon me for not expressing my opinion or not expressing it in detail.

My questions on this forum so far are about facts and about details. And I hope that if someone on this forum has the facts that they can be kind enough to share them. There are lots of opinions freely expressed that are not helpful to me in finding out the facts - or the truth.

Opinion vs fact --- at this point this is the question for me.

Re: Barbara Kerr - this one has me wondering. I read her letter(s) some time ago. Perhaps I should go and reread again, before replying to your question, but I do have other things to do and some of the letters are so long - I'm one of those people who likes things short and to the point. But I had thought why not release the tapes to her. I cannot recall ever reading why 3ABN would not release the tapes to her.

About the State of Illinois case - isn't that being appealed? And help me out - what was 3ABN doing that was wrong? Do you know if they are still doing that stuff wrong?

(addressing the bolded from the top above)

Don't worry, you're doing as good as anyone navigating around here. You came right into BSDA like a pro.

It probably wasn't obvious, but I wanted to know how you felt about those two question so we could get to know you. From your reluctance to read, retain, react, and commit...it looks like it will take a lot longer than usual to get to know you. So, be patience with us if we don't respond to your queries for a while. It' important to know what you've learned and how you feel about things first so we can know if our time will be well spent in education.

Yes, that's what we strive for also...facts and details. The supporting evidence for such is often strangely missing, so it's nice to know you won't be joining the others in making claims, or believing claims, that are merely typed and spoken fiats from the so-called authorities who are here merely to shape public perception, not to offer a balanced informed view based on demonstration. When they say something, it's like saying nothing at all.

Short and to the point has its place. There are times and places where this is not possible. If you take more time browsing around current discussions, and have little interest in reading the more important documents, we may not get very enthused digesting and regurgitating the real meat of the matter for you...although some of us do enjoy chewing the cud from time to time.

The letter from Barbara Kerr, that you are apparently familiar with, struck a chord deep in the heartland of many of us, and we found it to be a pivotal point in our understanding of the situation. If you have no reaction, nor opinion, about her very revealing comments, that's what we're looking for in getting to know you. It serves as a major barometric intidator of many things that go unsaid.

There's nothing I can do to help you out on the case 3abn vs. State of Illinois if your span of attention is waning. What's important is that you read it and offer your comments on the judges recommendation so we can get to know you, not you us, or trying to helping us in some way. We've been there and felt each other's reactions. Yours is still at large. We're here to study the facts and details, and there's no better place to find them, and no better place to point someone like yourself to than that case...so we know where you stand. It demands a polarized opnion agreeing or disagreeing...understanding or misunderstanding the rules.

Here's links for both the court case and BK's letter...

http://www.revenue.state.il.us/legalinform...s/pt/pt04-1.pdf
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...489&hl=Kerr

Reciprocity is the golden rule around here, so get back to us after giving these some thought. "Short and to the point" is not what years sorting through issues on this site is all about. You won't last long if that the expectation.

[Shiny Penny]

Penny, you will learn more if you read more carefully. Please read what I said again.

I was talking about finding people on the Weimar and Amazing Facts websites... not here. Weimar, being a college, no doubt has a goodly number of their staff listed. Amazing Facts has a number of choices on their response form. These are all real names of real people.

Thanks for clarifying. I did misunderstand your earlier post.

[Pickle]

Shiny Penny,

Regarding A-Facts merging with Weimar, please see Doug Garcia's April 9, 2007, announcement at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WeimarAlumni/message/530, a posting you can see only if you are a member of the list.

That announcement said,

Hello Weimar Alumni,

This weekend was the Amazing Facts board meeting and it has been reported to me that it appears we are heading for a merger with Weimar Institute.

I'll try to pass on any official word when it is given.

Just thought you'd all be interested in the progress.

Douglas Garcia

Doug works for A-Facts, has worked at 3ABN, and is a Weimar Alumnus.

To all: Note the date of Doug Garcia's announcement.

Thus there was an A-Facts board meeting on Sunday, April 8, that apparently approved pursuing the merger with Weimar. Then came the same board's vote on Wednesday, April 18, to merge with 3ABN, followed by a staff meeting at Weimar, I'm told, in which the staff were told that the discussions about merging Weimar and A-Facts were on hold because of this development with 3ABN.

People have wondered whether the merger with 3ABN was in the works for a long time, as Danny stated on April 19, or whether this all was a sudden development, as Doug stated in a communication. The facts speak for themselves.

This post has been edited by Pickle: May 4 2007, 06:20 AM

[dedication]

Is there a connection between the merger and the serving of lawsuits?
It appears Danny's been threatening for some time -- but waits until the merger is announced before serving.

[runner4him]

Is there a connection between the merger and the serving of lawsuits?
It appears Danny's been threatening for some time -- but waits until the merger is announced before serving.

Not the brightest light................but who knows what they are thinking?? Very good question.....any ideas?