Hospitalization Of Danny Shelton, Forwarded Announcement from Club Adventist Options

[LaurenceD]

There's a passage in the Bible that comes to mind. It speaks about the double action of the tongue. While on TV one person, while on the internet another perhaps?

"A spring doesn't gush fresh water one day and brackish the next, does it? Apple trees don't bear strawberries, do they? Raspberry bushes don't bear apples, do they? You're not going to dip into a polluted mud hole and get a cup of clear, cool water, are you?

Real wisdom, God's wisdom, begins with a holy life and is characterized by getting along with others. It is gentle and reasonable, overflowing with mercy and blessings, not hot one day and cold the next, not two-faced. You can develop a healthy, robust community that lives right with God and enjoy its results only if you do the hard work of getting along with each other, treating each other with dignity and honor. James 3

[ex3ABNemployee]

You are letting your personal feelings get in the way of good judgement. You need to stop trying to diagnose why people are sick since, sometimes, what goes around, comes around.

Is this wishful thinking on your part, appletree?

[Ian]

Yet again, Appletree, you are either missing the point or tap dancing around it.

No one is saying that everyone who has heart problems is stressed out. The point is that being stressed out greatly increases one's risk of heart trouble. While it is true that there is a history of heart trouble in the Shelton family, it is also entirely possible that the stress of the current situations could have brought Danny's and Tommy's heart trouble to the fore much earlier than it would have developed otherwise. No one is making any personal judgments here....just stating facts. Yes, facts!

I believe it was accusations of "stress caused by guilt" which was being addressed. An assumption of guilt requires a prior judgment. That's a fact.

we are sad humans...

Just stating facts and not personal judgment when it's them and theirs whether they be living or dead, and poor taste, and personal judgments, and uncalled for when it's us, or ours

Further, it is extremely poor taste to drag one's late mother into such a discussion in the manner that you did. You state that it is not practical to include her in the conclusion of stress and guilt, but you must have been thinking toward that end to even mention her in the first place. The truth is that the woman of whom you speak was an upstanding Christian woman who, undoubtedly, is singing with the angels at this very moment. If I were you, I'd be rethinking my approach to subjects like this. That was totally uncalled for!

Interesting...

Not to start a doctrinal debate, but for clarification here on this SDA forum. Adventists believe in the unconscious state of the dead, so would refer to "one's late mother" as sleeping... till Jesus calls her.

edit- Fixed quote

This post has been edited by Ian: Oct 17 2007, 12:54 AM

[justice4jesus]

we are sad humans...

facts and not personal judgment when it's them and theirs whether they be living or dead, and poor taste, and personal judgments when it's us, or ours
Interesting...

Not to start a doctrinal debate, but for clarification here on this SDA forum. Adventists believe in the unconscious state of the dead, so would refer to "one's late mother" as sleeping... till Jesus calls her.

I stand by what I've said. I'm not even going to go where you're trying to lead me.

[Ian]

I stand by what I've said. I'm not even going to go where you're trying to lead me.

ok.

It is obvious you made a conscious decision to delete the part about "I believe it was accusations of "stress caused by guilt" which was being addressed. An assumption of guilt requires a prior judgment. That's a fact." when quoting me though, so I feel it is safe to presume you at least got that point.

This post has been edited by Ian: Oct 17 2007, 01:13 AM

[beartrap]

Not to start a doctrinal debate, but for clarification here on this SDA forum. Adventists believe in the unconscious state of the dead, so would refer to "one's late mother" as sleeping... till Jesus calls her.

edit- Fixed quote

Some do, some don't. Blanket statements of that sort are most often a misrepresentation of reality.

In any case, the Bible states that in the final judgement God will ask where you were when he was hungry, cold, and in prison. There is no question about what you believed regarding the state of the dead, or any other doctrine of human interpretation as per denominational superiority through intelectual gravity and elevation. Organizations whose finacial projection is dependent on those who are held captive to doctrines and human interpretation, will keep their illusions held high.

[Ian]

"Not to start a doctrinal debate, but for clarification here on this SDA forum. Adventists believe in the unconscious state of the dead, so would refer to "one's late mother" as sleeping... till Jesus calls her."

Some do, some don't. Blanket statements of that sort are most often a misrepresentation of reality.

Some don't? a blanket statement which is a misrepresentation of reality?

Explain that! The fact is Adventists do believe in the unconscious state of the dead, and refer to the dead before the first and second resurrection, as sleeping, just as Jesus did.

In any case, the Bible states that in the final judgement God will ask where you were when he was hungry, cold, and in prison. There is no question about what you believed regarding the state of the dead, or any other doctrine of human interpretation as per denominational superiority through intelectual gravity and elevation. Organizations whose finacial projection is dependent on those who are held captive to doctrines and human interpretation, will keep their illusions held high.

Yes he'll ask that. But-- big one

Feeding the hungry is not just providing literal food. It is also feeding them the word, the bread of life. Clothing the naked is not just giving them clothes, it is also uplifting and teaching Christ Jesus so they can be clothed in his robe of righteousness. Visiting those in prison is not just going to San Quentin or where ever, it is also preaching, and teaching by word and example to those who are imprisoned by sin and error,(as even you allow for- above) for the truth sets man free.

No error or lie is harmless.

Your arguments here, and your reasons for them are lost on me!

This post has been edited by Ian: Oct 17 2007, 02:28 AM

[Seraphim7]

...
Not to start a doctrinal debate, but for clarification here on this SDA forum. Adventists believe in the unconscious state of the dead, so would refer to "one's late mother" as sleeping... till Jesus calls her.

edit- Fixed quote

Not one person, Adventist or otherwise, can speak for what another believes with that said, as you put it, not to start a doctrinal debate, but for clarification. Do you, Ian, believe in the unconscious state of the dead "as sleeping"? Yes/No

[justice4jesus]

ok.

It is obvious you made a conscious decision to delete the part about "I believe it was accusations of "stress caused by guilt" which was being addressed. An assumption of guilt requires a prior judgment. That's a fact." when quoting me though, so I feel it is safe to presume you at least got that point.

I quoted you and replied early this morning. You EDITED your post and ADDED that extra line NINE MINUTES LATER! The time stamp is right there on the post! You're not getting away with anything!

What little credibility you may have had with me just vaporized. I don't appreciate your underhanded tactics!

Calvin and Admins, I apologize if I am out of line here, but I feel that this was a blatant and unprovoked attempt by Ian to undermine me.

This post has been edited by justice4jesus: Oct 17 2007, 08:34 AM

[justice4jesus]

Not to start a doctrinal debate, but for clarification here on this SDA forum. Adventists believe in the unconscious state of the dead, so would refer to "one's late mother" as sleeping... till Jesus calls her.

edit- Fixed quote

And by the way, Ian....Just so there's no confusion on this particular issue, I respect the position of those who see it this way, but I am Southern Baptist, and being such, I do see it differently from a doctrinal perspective. I don't want to get into a doctrinal debate, either, but I state this solely for clarification purposes. Just FYI.

[watchbird]

And by the way, Ian....Just so there's no confusion on this particular issue, I respect the position of those who see it this way, but I am Southern Baptist, and being such, I do see it differently from a doctrinal perspective. I don't want to get into a doctrinal debate, either, but I state this solely for clarification purposes. Just FYI.

Thanks much for the clarification, J4J.... it gives us the chance to respect your doctrinal perpsectives in areas where we have some differences rather than entering into a "doctrinal debate".

So glad to have you with us. And don't bother your head about Ian.... you are appreciated here.

[princessdi]

Ok, so why are you adding to the Bible? It says what it says. You can just look around today and see just how important that is these days. That is the problem, adding all that to scripture, and then being sooo busy trying to drang people into church on the Sabbath and telling them what not to eat, when they do get something to eat, that we miss the entire point. If we start as the scriptures says, by being a friend, and serving people's needs, we will not have one problem getting them into the pews. When somebody needed healing, Jesus gave that. He alwaysministered to their needs, be those physical or spiritual. That does not mean that we make God conditional either. Serving needs only if you agree to listent o our party line(which is what it sounds like when your have needs that needed to be met two weeks ago). Just serve.

Explain that! The fact is Adventists do believe in the unconscious state of the dead, and refer to the dead before the first and second resurrection, as sleeping, just as Jesus did.
Yes he'll ask that. But-- big one

Feeding the hungry is not just providing literal food. It is also feeding them the word, the bread of life. Clothing the naked is not just giving them clothes, it is also uplifting and teaching Christ Jesus so they can be clothed in his robe of righteousness. Visiting those in prison is not just going to San Quentin or where ever, it is also preaching, and teaching by word and example to those who are imprisoned by sin and error,(as even you allow for- above) for the truth sets man free.

No error or lie is harmless.

Your arguments here, and your reasons for them are lost on me!

[awesumtenor]

Thanks much for the clarification, J4J.... it gives us the chance to respect your doctrinal perpsectives in areas where we have some differences rather than entering into a "doctrinal debate".

So glad to have you with us. And don't bother your head about Ian.... you are appreciated here.

This does, however highlight one of the things that we really need to correct in this church... too many of us are so used to associating with other Adventists almost exclusively ( and, even in that, limiting those contacts in many instances to those who toe a particular party line ) such that the immediate presumption is that if one comes into contact with them their immediate presumption is that they are Adventist... and as such should be held to the legalism standard du jour...

J4J, thank you for reminding us that although the name of the forum is "BlackSDA" there is neither requirement nor obligation that one be either in order to fellowship among us or participate with us... and for those still struggling to wrap their brains around such a concept... just keep them in prayer...

In His service,
Mr. J

[Ian]

I quoted you and replied early this morning. You EDITED your post and ADDED that extra line NINE MINUTES LATER! The time stamp is right there on the post! You're not getting away with anything!

What little credibility you may have had with me just vaporized. I don't appreciate your underhanded tactics!

Calvin and Admins, I apologize if I am out of line here, but I feel that this was a blatant and unprovoked attempt by Ian to undermine me.

I did not add that after you posted. All I did was fix the quote from you, which I had replied to, which is exactly what the edit note says.

[Ian]

In reading the various replies here I am not quite sure where all the controversy and faultfinding is coming from in reply to my posts.

I do know I didn't even say the things which are being layed on me here, so feel wrong assumptions have been made.

I do think we need to be careful that we aren't so tolerant of others and their beliefs, that we become intolerant of our own brethren and beliefs.