Swails Vs Oral Roberts University, Lawsuit Filed by Former Employees Options

[beartrap]

I wonder if the interest in the extravegance of the televangelists in the areas of private jets, sales of books, and most especially the giving of property by the ministry to the televangelists will hit 3ABN, considering 3ABN's alleged recent donation of many acres of prime land, purchased by donor monies, to Danny Shelton. My understanding is that the 501-C3 laws were established to reward the churches for providing sustenance to the poor and indigent. It would appear that the in the case of the televangelists the poor are enriching the rich as the poor become poorer. Many acres of land become the private property of one relatively wealthy man at the expense of many poorer people. Would that be true, Appletree? FHB? Ian? Et al? did 3ABN recently deed a number of acres (around fourty) of land to Danny? Prime acres on West Frankfort Lake Road that were purchased by 3ABN with donor dollars? Is he being enriched beyond his salary by the donors at a significant cost to the of the ministry? Is this something that might interest Chuck Grassley's committee? As the many other televangelists being enriched by poor people do? I don't know, but maybe that would be so.

This post has been edited by beartrap: Nov 10 2007, 02:21 AM

[Pickle]

I don't know what interest Senator Grassley will have in all of this, but someone called this evening and read me a reply they got from someone at the Trinity Foundation. They said they are watching the 3ABN situation. Sounds like they've been doing that for awhile.

I wonder if Mike Riva or Gerry Duffy might send them a cease and desist or else we'll sue letter, something like someone supposedly sent poor Nick Miller, according to some source somewhere other than Nick.

Now where was that source? Minneapolis? West Frankfort? Berrien Springs?

Anyway, if Duane Clem hasn't gotten one of those nasty, unchristian letters yet, probably Trinity doesn't have to worry.

[Fran]

I don't know what interest Senator Grassley will have in all of this, but someone called this evening and read me a reply they got from someone at the Trinity Foundation. They said they are watching the 3ABN situation. Sounds like they've been doing that for awhile.

I wonder if Mike Riva or Gerry Duffy might send them a cease and desist or else we'll sue letter, something like someone supposedly sent poor Nick Miller, according to some source somewhere other than Nick.

Now where was that source? Minneapolis? West Frankfort? Berrien Springs?

Anyway, if Duane Clem hasn't gotten one of those nasty, unchristian letters yet, probably Trinity doesn't have to worry.

Thanks for the info!

I called, then wrote them again about a year ago.

[Panama_Pete]

I don't know what interest Senator Grassley will have in all of this, but someone called this evening and read me a reply they got from someone at the Trinity Foundation. They said they are watching the 3ABN situation. Sounds like they've been doing that for awhile.

For whatever it's worth, the Grassley inquiry is in the Los Angeles Times, the Atlanta Journal Constitution, and is on the national TV news. So, TV evangelists and their jets and homes, etc., are being discussed virtually everywhere.


LA Times - "Is prosperity a blessing from God, or a crime?"

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/po...litics-national

"These churches are no longer people's institutions," said Harris, the Columbia University professor. "They have become fiefdoms of ministers."


Atlanta Journal Constitution - "Inquiry of powerful televangelists is appropriate"

http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion...nside_1110.html

"Responding to complaints from the public and news coverage of the ministries, Grassley wants to know how much the preachers earn, how church-issued credit cards are used and how many luxury cars, planes and foreign bank accounts they own. He is also asking for information on the ministries' boards, business relationships and associated organizations."


ABC News -- "Fleecing the Flock"

http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3850403&page=1

"Grassley said he was prompted to action by whistleblowers before he sent six letters to television ministries and demanded they explain their alleged lavish spending, among allegations of $23,000 marble toilets."

Associated Press -- "Megachurch Took in $69 Million in 2006"

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iOKXMgC...ZlpB9wD8SRIBH80

"Without a doubt, my life is not average," he [Creflo Dollar] said. "But I'd like to say, just because it is excessive doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong."

[Pickle]

Should Adventists write letters to the editor?

Would it be a good opportunity to witness?

'Tis true that our system pays preachers about the same, though with at least one Mid-Western ministry that comes across as if it answers to no one, things have gone awry.

[Richard Sherwin]

Just love this quote.

CODE

"Without a doubt, my life is not average," he [Creflo Dollar] said. "But I'd like to say, just because it is excessive doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong."

[mystery- man]

For whatever it's worth, the Grassley inquiry is in the Los Angeles Times, the Atlanta Journal Constitution, and is on the national TV news. So, TV evangelists and their jets and homes, etc., are being discussed virtually everywhere.
LA Times - "Is prosperity a blessing from God, or a crime?"

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/po...litics-national

"These churches are no longer people's institutions," said Harris, the Columbia University professor. "They have become fiefdoms of ministers."
Atlanta Journal Constitution - "Inquiry of powerful televangelists is appropriate"

http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion...nside_1110.html

"Responding to complaints from the public and news coverage of the ministries, Grassley wants to know how much the preachers earn, how church-issued credit cards are used and how many luxury cars, planes and foreign bank accounts they own. He is also asking for information on the ministries' boards, business relationships and associated organizations."
ABC News -- "Fleecing the Flock"



I have said this once and believe it deserves to say it once again, thank you, to the internet and those like Calvin that provide a voice for the common people to speak. Thank you Pickle for putting yourself on the line, I cannot imagine the stress and strain you must be under daily. I have been in the church for over 40 + years and have seen many wrongs done to individuals that had no where to turn to express their grief or even have their side of the story represented or given. I personally know of teenage girls and guys that have been wronged and it all swept under the rug in the name of protecting the church. I have seen fixed income people give their last dollar to a Christian cause only to have the money used on lavish living and the promotion of the minister instead of the preaching of the gospel. I thank the Lord that because of the internet and perhaps what is comming in the future at least the people will have access to the truth if they want to hear.
For to long God has been misrepresented and made to appear as a money God when in reality He is anything but that. All to often the preachers from the pulpit will connect wordly prosperity to spiritual prosperity which is not a component of the bible. I believe that God out of his mercy in these last days will give every sincere searcher of the truth an avenue to obtain the light of his word.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3850403&page=1

"Grassley said he was prompted to action by whistleblowers before he sent six letters to television ministries and demanded they explain their alleged lavish spending, among allegations of $23,000 marble toilets."

Associated Press -- "Megachurch Took in $69 Million in 2006"

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iOKXMgC...ZlpB9wD8SRIBH80

"Without a doubt, my life is not average," he [Creflo Dollar] said. "But I'd like to say, just because it is excessive doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong."

[mystery- man]

I dont know how my reply ended up in the middle of their posting but that is really funny I could in essence change someones posting by inserting things they did not say. I feel a bout of sabatoge comming on

[Panama_Pete]

I dont know how my reply ended up in the middle of their posting but that is really funny I could in essence change someones posting by inserting things they did not say. I feel a bout of sabatoge comming on

Yes, that inclusion of yours was, indeed, humorous.

Here's the latest update:

ORU Faculty Vote Against President

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j9XJtq8...mPuBFQD8ST5UB00

"TULSA, Okla. (AP) — Embattled Oral Roberts University president Richard Roberts, facing accusations he misspent university funds to support a lavish lifestyle, has received a vote of no confidence by the tenured faculty at the evangelical university.

Donald Vance, a professor of biblical languages and literature who voted with the majority, said the vote by a quorum of faculty was "nearly unanimous," but he declined to give the exact tally."

[Skyhook]

Testing--I have logged in and posted 3 times and I get error messages that I am not logged in.

[Skyhook]

Pastor's Wife: Church Is a Divorce Asset

Friday, Nov. 16, 2007

Mineola N.Y.--The estranged wife of a pastor claims her husband blended his professional and personal finances so thoroughly that his church should be counted as an asset in their divorce.

A judge agreed in a decision to hear arguments on the claim, and he ordered a financial appraisal of the church. Lawyers said it could represent the first time anyone in New York state has tried to treat a religious institution as a marital asset.

The wife argues that her husband of 31 years used his Brooklyn church as a "personal piggy bank," setting his own income, spending the congregation's tithes as he pleased and running a catering business out of the building, according to the decision by state Supreme Court Judge Arthur M. Diamond. The couple's names were redacted from the decision.

The wife said $50,000 of the couple's money went into starting the church, and that the church's property is partly hers. "that church is no different than any other business he might have opened",said the wife's lawyer Robert Pollack.

The pastor maintains that he is simply a church employee, and the institutions's funds should not be considered his, according to Diamond's decision. "My client can't own the church," said the minister's lawyer, Eleanor Gery.

Things seem to be heating up for "jack leg" preachers. The publicity that is being generated in these cases could be an encouragement for others who know about these kinds of abuses to speak out. And maybe some board members will wake up and take notice.

[Panama_Pete]

Things seem to be heating up for "jack leg" preachers. The publicity that is being generated in these cases could be an encouragement for others who know about these kinds of abuses to speak out. And maybe some board members will wake up and take notice.

Yes, maybe this will serve as encouragement for some board members to make the case for change.

The demands for financial accountability and transparency are being visited upon all of the televangelists, it seems; Those organizations that don't or won't provide transparency may see their donations dwindle dramatically, if they're not dwindling already.

National Public Radio (NPR) commentators say the problems stem from a legal system in the United States that has not kept up with the growth of mega-church ministries that now operate like Fortune 500 corporations, complete with boards of directors and people with the title of "CEO." NPR commentators say the U.S. Congress will have to look at the reality of the current situation and propose changes that will clean up the televangelist mess at the national level.

See this link for more on this thread's topic:

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j9XJtq8...mPuBFQD8T158V82

Emphasis below added by me:

Poll: Majority at Oral Roberts University Want Roberts Gone

"Nearly 90 percent of the faculty thought the school's current procedures for financial disclosure and accountability were inadequate and more than 74 percent of those polled did not believe that alumni would continue to support ORU if Richard Roberts remains as president, according to the survey."

-

[Panama_Pete]

Three Oral Roberts University Lawsuits Filed Today

Lawsuit claims Roberts ordered former accountant to "cook the books."

http://newsok.com/article/3172110/1195686407

"By John Estus
Staff Writer

TULSA — Three more lawsuits were filed against Oral Roberts University today, including one by a former accountant who claims Richard and Lindsay Roberts ordered him to "cook the books” to cover up their abuses of university and ministry money.

As a senior accountant for ORU and Oral Roberts Ministries from July 2006 until last month, Trent Huddleston was forced to defraud ORU, the ministry and the Internal Revenue Service by filing false accounting entries that hid the family's inappropriate use of university and ministry money, his lawsuit claims."

This post has been edited by Panama_Pete: Nov 21 2007, 06:04 PM

[lurker]

The temptation to do these things seems to be common to all the ministries that deal with donors money and don't have a system that forces them to be transparent. I'm not saying that all the ministries leaders fall to the temptaion. But it certainly must be difficult to reisist since so many have fallen.

Three Oral Roberts University Lawsuits Filed Today

Lawsuit claims Roberts ordered former accountant to "cook the books."

http://newsok.com/article/3172110/1195686407

"By John Estus
Staff Writer

TULSA — Three more lawsuits were filed against Oral Roberts University today, including one by a former accountant who claims Richard and Lindsay Roberts ordered him to "cook the books” to cover up their abuses of university and ministry money.

As a senior accountant for ORU and Oral Roberts Ministries from July 2006 until last month, Trent Huddleston was forced to defraud ORU, the ministry and the Internal Revenue Service by filing false accounting entries that hid the family's inappropriate use of university and ministry money, his lawsuit claims."

[Shiny Penny]

Morning Edition Report