Contempt Of Court And Sanctions, update as of 01/31/08 Options

[Johann]

Possibly this would be a good topic for another thread? We could indeed investigate the different statements made by both sides in these issues and discover how this whole thing got started and became such a public and large discussion/debate and problem?

As my questions here indicate, I would be interested in getting to the bottom of all this, with documentation, and references.

Are you reallywilling, Ian, the lets go. But tell me honestly, how will you document what people have seen and heard in person? And then told they are lying - when they know they are not?

This post has been edited by Johann: Feb 4 2008, 07:11 AM

[Ian]

Are you reallywilling, Ian, the lets go. But tell me honestly, how will you document what people have seen and heard in person? And then told they are lying - when they know they are not?

Like Brenda, who twice told of plans that Linda and the Doctor had made, (once admitted to and cancelled by Linda and the other followed through on) which resulted in you helping to paint and brand Brenda (falsely) as both a liar and an adulteress?

I find that sickening.

I am getting really tired of these appeals from you Johann, and these claims that you will correct anything you are in error on. I have tried to avoid a confrontation with you, as I'm sorry, but I honestly believe you mean well but have been used and deceived, and are possibly very confused. But you seem to be intently looking for one, as you keep posting for me to examine and investigate all with you, and posting even offtopic emotional appeals to me in the middle of threads, and even asking me to call me at my home....

Enough is enough!

I don't think you are a credible witness, or able to separate your personal feelings from what is right or wrong in these issues. BUT as you are so persistant, let's start with discussing just one claim of yours which you have made repeatedly.

I am only quoting two examples here:

Walt Thompson:
Is it OK for one's wife to make plans to visit her doctor to spent time together seeing the sights of his homeland - a trip that was later made?

-------

[Johann Thorvaldsson] When were these plans made and when did such a trip occur? Walt is really mixing up his chronology of events in this case, and this he has done frequently during this whole process

I have followed Linda's coming and going ever since 2003, and when did she make a trip together with Dr. Abrahamsen just to see the sights of his homeland? Be careful what statements you make, Walt! Irmgard tried to arrange a trip where Linda could see more of Norway, but Linda never went until Linda traveled to Bergen to attend Irmgard's funeral in August 2005. Such plans were never made while Danny and Linda were married.

QUOTE=PeacefullyBewildered @ Sep 15 2006, 05:43 AM

I found it quite easy to figure out that the letter was refering to Kay and Brenda.

I just don't see how you can conclude that Linda and Arild couldn't have traveled through Europe because Danny and Linda were divorced by June 26, 2004. How does the divorce make a trip impossible? Am I missing something?


Johann:
I have asked Walt Thompson what evidence he has that this visit took place. He replied there was good evidence.. . . .

My wife and I were spending most of our time in the vicinity of Dr. Arild Abrahamsen, she received frequent treratments from him, and we were in daily communication with Arild. It would have been a millionth of a chance we could have missed Linda's visit to Europe during that period. This is merely one more of a multitude of lies emanating from 3ABN. So what can you trust of whata they say?

Now, let's discuss and deal with how you made absolute statements based on your credibility and your claim to be a witness.

IS WHAT YOU CLAIMED ABOVE REALLY TRUE?

It is a simple question, which doesn't need spins or justifications, it only requires a yes or no answer to start with.


I have at least a dozen quotes from you and more from others including even Linda herself, and others made to you, as to what she was doing and when. I hope and pray that they aren't necessary here.

The ball is in your court, Johann. If you can't deal with this, please give it up and stop asking me to work with you and investigate honestly.


-- Ian

edited to avoid violating any forum rules...

This post has been edited by Ian: Feb 18 2008, 04:11 PM

[Johann]

Like Brenda, who twice told of plans that Linda and the Doctor had made, (once admitted to and cancelled by Linda and the other followed through on) which resulted in you helping to paint and brand Brenda (falsely) as both a liar and an adulteress?

I find that sickening.

I find it really sickening that you, Ian, who claim to be honest, make the claim that this trip ever took place. What is your documentation?

I am getting really tired of these appeals from you Johann, and these claims that you will correct anything you are in error on. I have tried to avoid a confrontation with you, as I'm sorry, but I honestly believe you mean well but have been used and deceived, and are possibly very confused. But you seem to be intently looking for one, as you keep posting for me to examine and investigate all with you, and posting even offtopic emotional appeals to me in the middle of threads, and even seeking to call me at my home in pms to me.

Enough is enough!

I don't think you are a credible witness, or able to separate your personal feelings from what is right or wrong in these issues. BUT as you are so persistant, let's start with discussing just one claim of yours which you have made repeatedly.

I am only quoting two examples here:

There is absolutely no proof to substantiate the claims Dr.Walt Thompson makes, and I know this did not take place, because my wife and I were in constant contact with Dr. Arild Abrahamsen at this time. Besides that he has all of his patient records, and testimony of his nurse, etc. What do you have to prove that such a trip took place?

Now, let's discuss and deal with how you made absolute statements based on your credibility and your claim to be a witness.

IS WHAT YOU CLAIMED ABOVE REALLY TRUE?

Yes it is, without a slightest doubt.

It is a simple question, which doesn't need spins or justifications, it only requires a yes or no answer to start with.


I have at least a dozen quotes from you and more from others including even Linda herself, and others made to you, as to what she was doing and when. I hope and pray that they aren't necessary here.

Let me know which seem to contradict what I am stating.

The ball is in your court, Johann. If you can't deal with this, please give it up and stop asking me to work with you and investigate honestly.


-- Ian

That ball is in your court as well, if there is any honesty in you. I can deal with this, and I will continue as long as the Lord gives me healt and life to continue. He placed me where I witnessed an abomination taking place which should never have occured among people calling themselves Christian. The tragedy is that it sullies an institution which claims to preach the truth. This cannot go on forever. The camp must be cleansed,, so the Lord can bless and make His work prosper.

We are not just dealing with a simple divorce. In that case I would have stopped a long time ago. But it is a matter where falsehood is covering the issues, and also the sacreligious ways Dr. Walt Thompson closes his documents loaded with falsehood.

Now the ball is in your court, Ian. How will you deal with it?

[Ozzie]

But it is a matter where falsehood is covering the issues, and also the sacreligious ways Dr. Walt Thompson closes his documents loaded with falsehood.

Now the ball is in your court, Ian. How will you deal with it?

More lies? More spin?

[Ian]

More lies? More spin?

That's very sweet, but No, Just another simple question to start.

It seems impossible, given Johann's claims

"My wife and I were spending most of our time in the vicinity of Dr. Arild Abrahamsen, she received frequent treratments from him, and we were in daily communication with Arild. It would have been a millionth of a chance we could have missed Linda's visit to Europe during that period. This is merely one more of a multitude of lies emanating from 3ABN. So what can you trust of whata they say?" and "Linda never went until Linda traveled to Bergen to attend Irmgard's funeral in August 2005."

that Linda could have been visiting Johann or travelling with he and his wife in the summer of 2004.

So I am wondering why he would have engaged in an argument with WWJD and Bystander about their claim that Danny drove Linda to the airport during that time, and claim Linda told him she drove herself to the airport... or why he would publish a letter on his new website from Linda (while in Europe) to Danny during this time claiming she needed to be with those who cared for her and travel???

Inquiring minds want to know...

This post has been edited by Ian: Feb 14 2008, 10:53 AM

[Ian]

Update to the opening post and thread topic regarding Gailon Joy and the contempt of court and sanctions
for review; http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=235757

Joy has since asked for those things to be reconsidered, the result? After reading the arguments by Joy and his Attorney, the contempt of court charge remains unchanged along with the sanction of 1000.00, but the Judge has amended the payment due date, and he can now pay the 1000.00 over a 4 mos time period, at 250.00 a month.

Here are the relevant documents:

 Bankdoc66020808.pdf ( 63.53K ) Number of downloads: 7


 Bankdoc66_1020808.pdf ( 78.16K ) Number of downloads: 6


 Bankdoc66_2020808.pdf ( 76.09K ) Number of downloads: 7


 JudgeBankdoc67021208.pdf ( 36.45K ) Number of downloads: 6


This post has been edited by Ian: Feb 14 2008, 10:21 AM

[Ian]

Update to the opening post and thread topic regarding Gailon Joy and the contempt of court and sanctions
for review; http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=235757

Joy has since asked for those things to be reconsidered, the result? After reading the arguments by Joy and his Attorney, the contempt of court charge remains unchanged along with the sanction of 1000.00, but the Judge has amended the payment due date, and he can now pay the 1000.00 over a 4 mos time period, at 250.00 a month.

Here are the relevant documents:

 Bankdoc66020808.pdf ( 63.53K ) Number of downloads: 7


 Bankdoc66_1020808.pdf ( 78.16K ) Number of downloads: 6


 Bankdoc66_2020808.pdf ( 76.09K ) Number of downloads: 7


 JudgeBankdoc67021208.pdf ( 36.45K ) Number of downloads: 6

Due to all the claims about the save3abn websites and even claims that they were registered by someone out of the country after they expired, I find it interesting that the documents above reveal that *according to Joy*, and his "information and belief"; Pickle is the one who re-registered them.


I also wondering how the following earlier claim made by Joy, as posted by SSOM on Aug 26 2007, can possibly mesh with what he is now claiming under oath in the above documents?

1) The Contributions to the Joy Pickle Defense Fund deposit directly into the the IOLTA account of Attorney Laird Heal;

2) The Joy Pickle defense fund does not cover any expenses for Joy;

3) The Mass Board of Bar Overseers review all IOLTA accounts annually, therefore there is accountability to the Mass Board of Bar Overseers, probably more reliable than Danny's obviously deficient auditors;

4) When Danny wants to disclose his Legal Bills for the SIX (6) ATTORNEYS that 3ABN has been paying for and the money paid for the his divorce attorneys during the past two years, we will be happy to arrange a copy of the legal bill for Pickle...maybe 3ABN would like to pay that also, now rather than later, and I will bet it is comparably very affordable;

5) When Danny is prepared to account for every dime of royalties earned but undisclosed on the 990's or to his board of directors, we will be happy to provide Danny with an accounting of every dime in the defense fund, or he can make an early contribution and I will credit it to the award in 2009;

6) Joy is not paid to represent himself, unlike Danny's Royalty problems, but Joy does intend to get paid quite handsomely by 3ABN and Danny Lee Shelton, his board, et al, for the grotesque misuse of process that this action represents... and Joy intends to collect sometime in 2009.

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

This post has been edited by Ian: Feb 14 2008, 11:21 AM

[princessdi]

Ok, Ian, please help me with this. How is it that you, baiscally a Johnny-come-lately, who admits to not being anywhere near any of these events at the time can question Johann who we know was there and involved in a great many of hte incidents being discussed? Now, unless i messed something(at this point I really only scan for abuses to board rules, cuz stuff is truly tiresome), are you admitting to being someone who was there and even more involved than Johann. That is the only way I can see you questioning his perspective in this.

The only other explanation is that I am right in that pretty much everyone from Danny on down share these IDs and post here. You speak with too much authority in refuting Johann for someone who was not directly or even indirectly involved. At this point, I think everyone just need to take their masks and gloves off and be real.

I am also aware that everytime I post one of this type of message, I get silence in return............which kind of answers the question.........

Like Brenda, who twice told of plans that Linda and the Doctor had made, (once admitted to and cancelled by Linda and the other followed through on) which resulted in you helping to paint and brand Brenda (falsely) as both a liar and an adulteress?

I find that sickening.

I am getting really tired of these appeals from you Johann, and these claims that you will correct anything you are in error on. I have tried to avoid a confrontation with you, as I'm sorry, but I honestly believe you mean well but have been used and deceived, and are possibly very confused. But you seem to be intently looking for one, as you keep posting for me to examine and investigate all with you, and posting even offtopic emotional appeals to me in the middle of threads, and even seeking to call me at my home in pms to me.

Enough is enough!

I don't think you are a credible witness, or able to separate your personal feelings from what is right or wrong in these issues. BUT as you are so persistant, let's start with discussing just one claim of yours which you have made repeatedly.

I am only quoting two examples here:
Now, let's discuss and deal with how you made absolute statements based on your credibility and your claim to be a witness.

IS WHAT YOU CLAIMED ABOVE REALLY TRUE?

It is a simple question, which doesn't need spins or justifications, it only requires a yes or no answer to start with.
I have at least a dozen quotes from you and more from others including even Linda herself, and others made to you, as to what she was doing and when. I hope and pray that they aren't necessary here.

The ball is in your court, Johann. If you can't deal with this, please give it up and stop asking me to work with you and investigate honestly.
-- Ian

[Clay]

Ok, Ian, please help me with this. How is it that you, baiscally a Johnny-come-lately, who admits to not being anywhere near any of these events at the time can question Johann who we know was there and involved in a great many of hte incidents being discussed? Now, unless i messed something(at this point I really only scan for abuses to board rules, cuz stuff is truly tiresome), are you admitting to being someone who was there and even more involved than Johann. That is the only way I can see you questioning his perspective in this.

The only other explanation is that I am right in that pretty much everyone from Danny on down share these IDs and post here. You speak with too much authority in refuting Johann for someone who was not directly or even indirectly involved. At this point, I think everyone just need to take their masks and gloves off and be real.

I am also aware that everytime I post one of this type of message, I get silence in return............which kind of answers the question.........

Is there any validity in what Ian has submitted for consideration? Is there any validity in what Johann has submitted for consideration? If not, why not? If so, to what degree? Are you suggesting that because a person may not be an eyewitness that their questions are not valid? I think at this stage in the race both sides need to be assessed regarding truth, spin, and agendas..... I say that because from where I sit BOTH sides of this saga have engaged in shading the truth, spinning the truth, and promoting their agenda....

I don't think that it is going to be as cut and dry as we would wish, but then, life never is.....

[Ian]

Ok, Ian, please help me with this. How is it that you, baiscally a Johnny-come-lately, who admits to not being anywhere near any of these events at the time can question Johann who we know was there and involved in a great many of hte incidents being discussed? Now, unless i messed something(at this point I really only scan for abuses to board rules, cuz stuff is truly tiresome), are you admitting to being someone who was there and even more involved than Johann. That is the only way I can see you questioning his perspective in this.

The only other explanation is that I am right in that pretty much everyone from Danny on down share these IDs and post here. You speak with too much authority in refuting Johann for someone who was not directly or even indirectly involved. At this point, I think everyone just need to take their masks and gloves off and be real.

I am also aware that everytime I post one of this type of message, I get silence in return............which kind of answers the question.........

Diane,

I am just one person and no one else is using my login to post or tell me what to say or post. I''m going by what I have read on this forum, and on save3abn here. Which is the advice you give members here. I'm sorry you have a hard time understanding that. The reason I most often don't answer you is because you don't understand that and won't accept it, although it's been said many times.

Johann claimed Linda could not and was not in Europe in the summer of 2004 repeatedly, (I quoted 2 examples only). and he has called Dr Thompson and 3ABN liars for claiming she was. Further he has called Brenda Walsh a liar because she told of the plans for this trip way before it took place.

The problem is there are letters from Danny to Linda and to Johann himself, and also from Linda to Danny during that same time period which prove the opposite They are posted on the save3abn website. Further he himself claimed in other places that she did go, as when he admitted it to bystander and wwjd, and to Dedication, than he went right back to claiming she didn't and no one has ever been able to prove him wrong. (all on this forum)

If you choose to believe that he is a first person witness and so all that he says is credible, than that is your choice. I do not think that, and since he keeps making these requests and appeals to me to get to the bottom of everything, I am trying to do so. That is my choice.

I would think anyone here should be able to question any other, even if they do claim to know and to have been there as Johann does.

People can claim anything.
I really don't want there to be a problem between us here simply because you believe him and I don't, nor do I think there has to be one.

This post has been edited by Ian: Feb 14 2008, 01:10 PM

[princessdi]

I can understand that very well. I am also convinced of the spin on both sides. Really, I see them right about now as the same. They use the same tatics, etc(told y'all before Read those Perretti books). I am just saying that we have people, like Ian, who come here who claim not to be affiliated with 3ABN whatsoever, other than a viewer/supporter. However, it is not long before they are spouting details of someone who is clearly involved. That in itself hurts their credibility, with me. Just be who you are and state what you know. simple. That is why I had said before that for both sides everybody needs to come and post for themselves...Danny, GJ(who has clearly chosen ont to post here, but on the other site is posting away), WT, JL, everybody, post your own stuff. I have long tired of folks "forwarding" emails, etc.

Ian can have valid questions and is entitled to get the answers to those questions. This whole mess is here because Danny and WT would not answer Bob's(and other's) questions when asked directly. However, I am having a lot of trouble with him questioning the account of anyone we ALL know was directly involved, since Ian has claimed not to be involed at all, just a self appointed, defender of Danny and 3ABN. Why is he, Ian, trying to avoid confronting Johann. That is like me saying the same thing( and we all know I have never been no where near 3ABN or Danny- Praise God!).....unless Ian is being less then truth about his own involvement and/or ID? That is my problem.

Is there any validity in what Ian has submitted for consideration? Is there any validity in what Johann has submitted for consideration? If not, why not? If so, to what degree? Are you suggesting that because a person may not be an eyewitness that their questions are not valid? I think at this stage in the race both sides need to be assessed regarding truth, spin, and agendas..... I say that because from where I sit BOTH sides of this saga have engaged in shading the truth, spinning the truth, and promoting their agenda....

I don't think that it is going to be as cut and dry as we would wish, but then, life never is.....

[princessdi]

Naw, now we will never have a problem because of that. That would be truly silly. I did qualify my statements by saying I must of missed something, and that is it. If, indeed, you ARE refuting infomration taken purely from this site and save3ABN, then that is fine,a nd I missed that somewhere along the line....You must know the massive amounts if info this this forum...and we have to take care of the entire forum.

Now, haivng said that, Ian, I am so sorry, but I just do mistrust anything about this entire situation, and everyone included. ALL have exhibited behavior that is so unchristlike it is not funny. So I put nothing past anyone of you. This is not to say that I dont' love each and everyone of you with christian love, it is just that you actions and owrds have shown me that far too many of the "bretheren" live too close to the dark side fo the force. Often crossing the line and uses the tools of the dark side. As Clay says this will not wash out as clean as some of hoped it would. It is already evident that abuses, lies, and spin( by administration to the rank and file membership, and 3ABN has defintely been in on it. It is why they can say nothing about his behavior now or ever), goes back further than I was ever aware of. It is only proof that only one's own personal rlationship with God is what will ensure our salvation. Church affiliation means absolutely nothing to God, and the SDA church, and all others are proof of that. They are man made and only give lip service to following God. Because they are man made they can do nothing else. We ALL fall down, but as some point Danny, 3ABN administration, and church adminstration have forgotten to get up. Those who defend their actions are int he same position and worship and follow them, not God. This is why I believe there will be no clear solution to these issues ever, wohtout some serious intervention from God.

Diane,

I am just one person and no one else is using my login to post or tell me what to say or post. I''m going by what I have read on this forum, and on save3abn here. Which is the advice you give members here. I'm sorry you have a hard time understanding that. The reason I most often don't answer you is because you don't understand that and won't accept it, although it's been said many times.

Johann claimed Linda could not and was not in Europe in the summer of 2004 repeatedly, (I quoted 2 examples only). and he has called Dr Thompson and 3ABN liars for claiming she was. Further he has called Brenda Walsh a liar because she told of the plans for this trip way before it took place.

The problem is there are letters from Danny to Linda and to Johann himself about this during the same time period which prove the opposite They are posted on the save3abn website. Further he himself claimed in other places that she did go, as when he admitted it to bystander and wwjd than he went right back to claiming she didn't and no one has ever been able to prove him wrong. (all on this forum)

If you choose to believe that he is a first person witness and what he says is credible, than that is your choice. I do not think that, and since he keeps making these requests and appeals to me to get to the bottom of everything, I am trying to do so. That is my choice.

I would think anyone here should be able to question any other, even if they do claim to know and to have been there as Johann does.

People can claim anything.
I really don't want there to be a problem between us here simply because you believe him and I don't, nor do I think there has to be one.

[Johann]

That's very sweet, but No, Just another simple question to start.

It seems impossible, given Johann's claims

"My wife and I were spending most of our time in the vicinity of Dr. Arild Abrahamsen, she received frequent treratments from him, and we were in daily communication with Arild. It would have been a millionth of a chance we could have missed Linda's visit to Europe during that period. This is merely one more of a multitude of lies emanating from 3ABN. So what can you trust of whata they say?" and "Linda never went until Linda traveled to Bergen to attend Irmgard's funeral in August 2005."

that Linda could have been visiting Johann or travelling with he and his wife in the summer of 2004.

So I am wondering why he would have engaged in an argument with WWJD and Bystander about their claim that Danny drove Linda to the airport during that time, and claim Linda told him she drove herself to the airport... or why he would publish a letter on his new website from Linda (while in Europe) to Danny during this time claiming she needed to be with those who cared for her and travel???

Inquiring minds want to know...

You sure seem to have been fed a lot of wrong information, Ian.

My statement, which you cite above, still stands just like it is.

Some claim that for God time makes no difference, but is 3ABN in that position? Many of Danny's and Walt's claim indicate that is where they think they stand. Because again and again they lift an event out of chronology and place it elsewhere in time, as if the time element makes no difference.

Again and again we hear the false claims that Arild and Linda had been together in Florida, Las Vegas, New York, Norway, while Linda was still married to Danny. Every one of those claims is false.


You state that Linda went to Europe. Yes she did. But when? Was Linda not permitted to travel after Danny had discarded her and they were no longer married? Was there an attachment to the divorce papers making it illegal for Linda to leave the state of Illinois for the rest of her life? The argumnets you make sound as if that was the case!

Try to think!

If inquiring minds want to know they should also accept facts that cannot be contested.

[Johann]

Diane,

I am just one person and no one else is using my login to post or tell me what to say or post. I''m going by what I have read on this forum, and on save3abn here. Which is the advice you give members here. I'm sorry you have a hard time understanding that. The reason I most often don't answer you is because you don't understand that and won't accept it, although it's been said many times.

Johann claimed Linda could not and was not in Europe in the summer of 2004 repeatedly, (I quoted 2 examples only). and he has called Dr Thompson and 3ABN liars for claiming she was. Further he has called Brenda Walsh a liar because she told of the plans for this trip way before it took place.

The problem is there are letters from Danny to Linda and to Johann himself, and also from Linda to Danny during that same time period which prove the opposite They are posted on the save3abn website. Further he himself claimed in other places that she did go, as when he admitted it to bystander and wwjd, and to Dedication, than he went right back to claiming she didn't and no one has ever been able to prove him wrong. (all on this forum)

If you choose to believe that he is a first person witness and so all that he says is credible, than that is your choice. I do not think that, and since he keeps making these requests and appeals to me to get to the bottom of everything, I am trying to do so. That is my choice.

I would think anyone here should be able to question any other, even if they do claim to know and to have been there as Johann does.

People can claim anything.
I really don't want there to be a problem between us here simply because you believe him and I don't, nor do I think there has to be one.

You sure are spinninng here, Ian.

Yes, I still claim Walt is a liar if he states Linda was in Europe before the divorce in 2004 - except her trip together with Brenda in February.

[Ian]

Naw, now we will never have a problem because of that. That would be truly silly. I did qualify my statements by saying I must of missed something, and that is it. If, indeed, you ARE refuting infomration taken purely from this site and save3ABN, then that is fine,a nd I missed that somewhere along the line....You must know the massive amounts if info this this forum...and we have to take care of the entire forum.

Thank you, that is a relief I do understand there is lots to consider, and what one notices may not necessarily be noticed by another, and vice versa

Now, haivng said that, Ian, I am so sorry, but I just do mistrust anything about this entire situation, and everyone included. ALL have exhibited behavior that is so unchristlike it is not funny. So I put nothing past anyone of you. This is not to say that I dont' love each and everyone of you with christian love, it is just that you actions and owrds have shown me that far too many of the "bretheren" live too close to the dark side fo the force. Often crossing the line and uses the tools of the dark side. As Clay says this will not wash out as clean as some of hoped it would.

I, myself, am troubled by so much that I perceive as being unchristlike in these issues also, but I also understand that sometimes our definitions and perceptions of what is Christlike can depend on our own persepective, beliefs and opinions, and it is too easy to be partial, to justify those who agree with us and condemn those we do not, using our own selves and thoughts and feelings, (since we love Christ and want to follow and obey, and think like him) as the standard of what being Christlike is all about, rather than Christ Himself. That I believe is Satan at work, still saying "you will be as God, knowing good from evil, and you will not surely die"

Instead of being formed in God's image, often fallen humans form God in their own image. That's really very scary, isn't it? but also so very easy to do, as fallen man so wants to justify self and be righteous. I just keep praying that the Lord show me if I am doing so, even if he has to clock me

As you said, having said that...

I am not willing to brand "all", or paint "all" with the same brush as "being so unchristlike it's not funny". I personally have because of this very forum and these very controversial 3abn issues met many who I may either agree or disagree with, and who may agree or disagree with me, but they are very Christlike and actually do value and put the truth before personality or opinions. I lconsider them my brethren, and my friends. I do not see them being anything other than that, even if, and when we disagree. ... which happens. I know they love me and consider me the same way, for I have seen the evidence of this in these issues, and despite them, and that's good, for this too shall pass.

It is already evident that abuses, lies, and spin( by administration to the rank and file membership, and 3ABN has defintely been in on it. It is why they can say nothing about his behavior now or ever), goes back further than I was ever aware of. It is only proof that only one's own personal rlationship with God is what will ensure our salvation. Church affiliation means absolutely nothing to God, and the SDA church, and all others are proof of that. They are man made and only give lip service to following God. Because they are man made they can do nothing else. We ALL fall down, but as some point Danny, 3ABN administration, and church adminstration have forgotten to get up. Those who defend their actions are int he same position and worship and follow them, not God.

While I can agree that it is not where and in what books our names are registered here on this earth that ensures our salvation, as it is whether our names are registered in heaven that counts. Here we will have to part ways, I see and view these things very differently. I defend 3ABN because of what I understand, but would NEVER worship the entity or anyone there. ( nor do I personally know any that does) My Lord is number one.

This is why I believe there will be no clear solution to these issues ever, wohtout some serious intervention from God.

I think that starts with just one who allows God to intervene in his life, rather than looking for God to intervene in other's lives.

I sincerely believe if we could all do so as individuals that Jesus would be here already.

Wouldn't that be awesome?


Thanks for your reply.

This post has been edited by Ian: Feb 14 2008, 10:20 PM