Investigation Feasibility Options

[Hersheys99]

My initial response was oh no they are giving up BUT after rereading it all & thinking about it an investigation won't do any good at this point. The only investigation that would make a lot of differenc would be like the IRS, Law Enforcement.. that kind of thing. That & if the GC, Amazing Facts, etc stop using him to put out their programs along with people pulling their funding from him.

So everyone just needs to keep giving out all the packets, etc. to those that support & can help make a difference.

[Panama_Pete]

I was hoping there would be an appreciation to my "honesty and integrity" in not taking on this assignment based upon it boiling down to taking money with little likelihood of developing any substantive results.

Lewis

Honesty is a rare quality, Lewis. Few possess it.

Thank you for consideration. It is appreciated.

Pete

[sonshineonme]

Honesty is a rare quality, Lewis. Few possess it.

Thank you for consideration. It is appreciated.

Pete

Lewis, I do appreciate your response, even though I did not mention it right off - I was shocked and let down (knee jerk reaction) and should have waited to post....my problem, I'm sorry.

I have been thinking so much about this, my mind went right to "defeat" and I have since come up from that (same as described so well by Pete), I instantly have started trying to think just how something like this can be won. I understand the he said-she said idea - it would come from two sides only - those who support Danny and the rest of us. I have enough personal expirience to understand that if that is all that would come from a private investigation from a PI, then it would be pointless and wasted effort and time, so I totally respect that opinion.

I know (most know) that there is much much more to this then just a Danny-Linda thing. There are many other ways to get the job of truth done - and it will probably be mostly affected by the mighty dollar NOT going to support someone who is, like no-cults said, "my unscientific BS
barometer, I am getting a reading of at least 90%". I still think that this situation is symptomatic of people having to open their eyes, make a choice and take a stand. If all would do that, think of the impact it could have. I won't give up on my part.

Common sense people. It's a gift from God too. Lets use it.

[watchbird]

What I said is what I said - no hidden message, no talking between the lines, no sublimal message, and I don't have a personal agenda in this saga. If you choose to pick-a-part my post then you have more time than I do.

As a point of clarification, I am not a member of ASI, and my statement relating to my Adventist Christian roots in no way infers that I would be partial towards 3ABN. But from my readings of the responses to my post, this probably is really not a relevant issue at this point.

My apologies for mentioning that. I had been told that you were a member. And it really is a relevant issue so thanks for making the clarification.

I was hoping there would be an appreciation to my "honesty and integrity" in not taking on this assignment based upon it boiling down to taking money with little likelihood of developing any substantive results.

And I do think we appreciate it. It will just take us a bit to realize that what we wanted was a "magic wand"--and those are simply not a part of an investigator's "little black bag".

I have found that there are some clients who will never be pleased unless you tell them exactly what they want to hear, or give them information that will only confirm their beliefs. To take on such an assignment under these circumstances is a seasoned private investigator's worst nightmare. The fee that is charged never compensates for the ensuing drama. The responses to my post only confirms that this would be such a case.

And just think. All of these responses came from friends.

I'm not going to be dishonest and take your money and I don't need the conflict of interest, sold us out, "in league with the devil," drama.

I have to get back to work.

Lewis

Thanks for your time and interest.

[Fran]

I respect Lewis's assessment even though I wished it would have revealed a different outcome. However, Calvin suggested in another thread that this is a time for action. Since there will be no investigation from blacksda, why don't we call Direct Network and whatever satellite and cable stations and request Hope TV to be added instead of 3ABN.

I did just that! I then added my justification by adding links to documentation, First and foremost, I detailed 3ABN's TRUST ISSUES and EVALUATION problems. I stressed that 3ABN DOES NOT FOLLOW GAAP and few more of the financial irregularities. I gave them links to follow for more documentation.

I told how he belongs to a Seventh-day Adventist church he invented to get around the property tax issue problems, but clearly does not understand what being a SDA means. I gave examples and sent them Dr A's letter, Danny's and Walt's also.

I told them my request was that 3ABN NOT be allowed on Dish Network, but that Hope TV should be their choice. Hope TV is an entity that is a SDA entity and 3ABN is not! Hope TV has channels of accountability, 3ABN does not! .........

I gave them links to BlackSDA and CA. I also told them about AToday. This is by far a financial matter.

My next letter goes to the State Department. They are the ones that investigate 3ABN on foreign soil.

My list is short and sweet because I am having vision difficulties. Please would someone pick up the rest of ASI? They are important and need to know.

Forget the he/said she/said! We need to get busy and let people know what has been said and done. Let the chips fall where they may.

Is there someone that can collect signatures with email addresses and send them to Dish Network, IRS, FBI, State Department, ASI. We need people on the band wagon!

[Hersheys99]

I just want to say thanks leakins for giving us your honest opinion. I appreciate you being honest & upfront about it all.

[watchbird]

Just a couple more comments before I leave this thread.

I think it would be well to consider that in any normal investigation, the "client" is not only the person who wants to know, or the person who foots the bill, but the person with the power and authority to use the information to achieve whatever results the client wants to achieve. If the client is merely a bystander, with no ability to use the information for any purpose other than sharing with others, then what has been the result, other than more information to share?

Now the facts are that we here on BSDA do NOT have any power or authority with which to utilize the information that Lewis might dig up. The facts are that we also do not yet know the extent of the penetration of the cancer into the whole church body. And because of that, we don't even know who, if anyone, would or could make use of the information to accomplish any real changes.

Some have spoken of being in "court". But we are not a court. And we do not have the power to execute judgement or pass sentence that a court would have. We are all, in a very real sense, investigators, and this is an on-going investigation. It would have been nice to have had the assistance of a professional investigator to add to the store of information that we are accumulating and that we have to share with others. But it is also a fact that information can become useless for court purposes if it is shared too widely publicly. Which is another reason that some have for holding their information close and not revealing it until such a time as a court which actually does have the power to execute judgment convenes--whether that be a civil court of the land, or the "court" of church administrators.

In the meantime, it would probably be better for us to move back to the thread Calvin started, A Time For Action", as we focus on what we can do to spread the information that we already have available.

And thanks again, Lewis, for your time and professional evaluation.

[beartrap]

I agree with Lewis. Without the full cooperation of Danny Shelton and 3ABN, it is just a peyote dream. No private investigator has the authority to force anyone to do or say anything. Its all volluntary. And it still remains a "he said she said" thing.

[Clay]

I agree with Lewis. Without the full cooperation of Danny Shelton and 3ABN, it is just a peyote dream. No private investigator has the authority to force anyone to do or say anything. Its all volluntary. And it still remains a "he said she said" thing.

in the absence of pictures or dna its always going to be he said, she said.... there is no way anything can be proven from an investigation where people don't have to cooperate and cannot be made to cooperate....

[Johann]

in the absence of pictures or dna its always going to be he said, she said.... there is no way anything can be proven from an investigation where people don't have to cooperate and cannot be made to cooperate....

Seems like a saaaad, saaaaad situATION. But, folks, this is not the time to give up. I know the Good Lord is on our side. So we must proceed and do His bidding.

I was wondering why the Lord had me go and work for 3ABN and Danny Shelton. It could only because the Lord wanted me to be a first person wtness to the false accusations which took place.

Time passes, but evil never becomes good. Such outragious misuse of power cannot remain and be associated with the proclamation of the Undiluted Three Angel's Messages!

[summertime]

I'm sorry to hear this, and I don't mean to sound rude, but this sounds like a cop-out answer. This part bothers me the most:
"However, as a Seventh-day Adventist Christian for over 50 years, my success and reputation has been built on being honest and forthright with potential clients."

If you are about "honest and forthright" , that is just what this needs. I know many people who would be just that, and though I can't speak for Linda, I would almost stake my paycheck on her being exactly that - I know her well enough to feel comfortable saying this. In any case, if you really don't want to be "the one" to be involved, maybe you should be honest about the real reasons - more of a conflict of interest maybe? Are you saying you wouldn't be able to do this with this situation? Are you really trying to tell us something else? or telling someone else something? Are you talking between the lines a bit?

You make it sound like it's just an "he said she said" thing, and it's so much more. Much fact along with a lot of circumstancial evidence can put the picture together - this is how it works in court - I have been on jurys and I know that you can't know every detail fact, but you get the big picture based on all very damning proven evidence with lots of testimony. What would you be pursuing here? Is it just about Danny and Linda to you? Can't you see she is another "person in the way" or are you also not ready to be another "person in the way"?

Lets not forget what this is really all about. Brothers, don't give up so easily! This is just what is wanted. Do you think it will resolve it's self suddenly without a continuing of control and stealing of the people? I think not. Or is this one of those, "let God do it" things? I'm dissapointed in people, again.

I

This post has been edited by summertime: Jul 26 2006, 06:52 AM

[Fran]

I refuse to be a defeatist! Let's get back to moving ahead.

This is not about Linda and Danny's marriage. It is about Power and control.

Rape is not always a sex act. It is a power and control issue. However, what greater humiliation can one do to a victim to show their great power and control over their victim? The rapist gains even more confidence in their power and control.

Destroying people fits right in the rape category. Remember that rape is more than the sexual act. However, total power & control WILL usually include the sex act!

Does anyone blame Linda for moving far away from Danny's person? As Johann so aptly told Walt, "Get you time line straight".

Another point to make is that Linda did not commit adultery. If she actually had a pregnancy test, which I do not believe, it would have been because she HAD been raped in the sexual sense by her rapist to show total control and power. Who is the control freak here? You figure it out.

Re-reading my time line, Danny is over at Linda's with flowers and maybe even planting the pregnancy test. Then all of the sudden he takes Moses P with him to Linda's for protection, so SHE will not be able to accuse him of anything. Too late. What happened before that? Rape is not adultery.

No one has said if the Pregnancy test was used or not. Since her house was bugged right under Linda's nose, a pregnancy test could have been planted just as everything else has been done. I, like Johann, am of the opinion that there was no pregnancy test at Linda's. Since she moved to get away from Danny, I would suggest it was to get away from her abuser. Maybe Danny got the test for Brenda?

What was the date of the vasectomy? He did that, hoping he would never get caught again by a baby like he did a few years before! It also gives freedom to continue in his lifestyle.

The trashing of Linda was rape in the sense that he was showing his control and power over Linda. He never dreamed all this would reach up and bite him in the rear end.

The real issue is the finances. It is the only thing that will damage Danny. Let us forget he/she said stuff and get serious.

In the next 48 hours I will try put together a financial/moral/spiritual package to sent out. I will post it. It will include sections so you can pick and choose what is your desire to say by cutting and pasting.

I will post it under the thread about calling for action. You may not like what I post. If not, don't use it. If it says what you feel you would like to say, use it and even customize to your words, or send it as is.

This post has been edited by Fran: Jul 25 2006, 06:10 PM

[watchbird]

. . . Does anyone blame Linda for moving far away from Danny's person? As Johann so aptly told Walt, "Get you time line straight".

Another point to make is that Linda did not commit adultery. If she actually had a pregnancy test, which I do not believe, it would have been because she HAD been raped in the sexual sense by her rapist to show total control and power. Who is the control freak here? You figure it out.

Re-reading my time line, Danny is over at Linda's with flowers and maybe even planting the pregnancy test. Then all of the sudden he takes Moses P with him to Linda's for protection, so SHE will not be able to accuse him of anything. Too late. What happened before that? Rape is not adultery.

No one has said if the Pregnancy test was used or not. Since her house was bugged right under Linda's nose, a pregnancy test could have been planted just as everything else has been done. I, like Johann, am of the opinion that there was no pregnancy test at Linda's. Since she moved to get away from Danny, I would suggest it was to get away from her abuser. Maybe Danny got the test for Brenda? . . .

I have been debating with myself as to whether or not I should post the story of the pregnancy test as told to me on the phone by Linda herself. Now that Fran has speculated in ways that bear no resemblance to the story as Linda told it, I feel rather obligated to tell it. But, since it really belongs in the thread called, "Thompson Responds To Abrahamsen...., borrowed from Maritime", for we first heard about it from his letter, I will go there to tell the whole story.

Here I will just say that it does not belong with the flowers story--that was after Linda moved to Springfield. The pregnancy test was bought before the divorce while Linda and Danny were still living together. It was never used. It was never intended to be used. And yes, Linda bought it, Danny did not. But for the details on this please go to the other thread.

[PrincessDrRe]

My initial response was oh no they are giving up BUT after rereading it all & thinking about it an investigation won't do any good at this point. The only investigation that would make a lot of differenc would be like the IRS, Law Enforcement.. that kind of thing. That & if the GC, Amazing Facts, etc stop using him to put out their programs along with people pulling their funding from him.

So everyone just needs to keep giving out all the packets, etc. to those that support & can help make a difference.

True dat!

.....Rape is not always a sex act.

Rape is never a sex act. It's not about the sex...rape is only about power and control over a person.

As for the rest of the post I agree....

We gotta do something....

[Fran]

True dat!

Rape is never a sex act. It's not about the sex...rape is only about power and control over a person.

As for the rest of the post I agree....

We gotta do something....

I totally agree! Some get raped with out the sex ACT. Some do. It is always about Power and control. The physical rape is NOT about sex, I totally agree. Some victims will not suffer the rape sex ACT as part of the Rape. Other WILL suffer the sex ACT included in the rape process. I fully agree what your are saying. I was trying to show that some rapes do not include a sex ACT.

From reading CA and BSDA, it is my feeling that Linda was at least raped without a sex ACT. IMO, I believe it is highly likely that part of her RAPE did include a sex ACT. I wasn't there, so I don't know. I am sure watchbird knows.

Watchbird;

You know much more than me about everything. By the way, I never said I had witnesses about the pregnancy test. I have never met or talked to Linda, therefore I do not have her story. Carry on with your truth watchbird. I can take a clue. I'm outa here to do my own thing all by myself about financial fact for which you know nothing about. Sorry I stepped on your toes.