Linda's employment post 3ABN, and other miscellaneous issues Options

[PaperTigers]

Considering the Zaccheus story, there is hope for everyone. Zaccheus being a corrupt leader of a corrupt organisation and publicly known for lining his pockets with stolen money could still be troubled over his life and be drawn to Jesus. And upon meeting Jesus melting compleately before Gods mercy. It does not appear that any of the contemporary characters is quite so infamous and perhaps not shameless enough to continue should he/she become widely infamous for it. There is hope for everyone till they curse God and die.

that's a very good point västergötland

[watchbird]

Watchbird if you read the newest installment from Jorgen, he mentions restitution as well.

Yes, I noticed. I read that immediately after making my post. It is something that a number of us have discussed at length the last few years ... but it is still something that gets no where near the attention that IMO it deserves to have when people are discussing the situation publicly.

The questions, of course, once one "goes there" are..... What would it take for Danny to make restitution for all the monies he has misappropriated, wasted, or flat out stolen from the offering plates? What would it take in terms of unfair low paid employees just "back pay"? What would it take to replace the employee hour time that has gone into the building and maintaining of Danny's private stables and dwellings? What would it take to replace the months and years of unemployment caused by Danny's spreading of lies and threats to prospective employers of ex-employees? What would it take to replace the reputations tattered, the joy and hopes smashed to smithereens? What would it take? How could it be done ..... even if by some sudden miracle Danny were willing to do so?

And what of his gullible public. If he uses the difficulties and even, let's face it, the impossibilities of making restitution of all these things as an excuse for not giving up all he has..... including ownership of 3ABN and all he has acquired from there..... I say, if he uses all of these mixed with real tears of self-pity and pious proclamations that say on bottom line that these can all be washed away by a dip in the baptismal tank......

What then. Will people be so confused that they do not see the difference between washing away the guilt of sin (which is possible for the worst sinner) and washing away all balance sheets and debts and obligations so that the debtor walks away exhonerated .... still clutching his ill gained riches in his varous banks?

These are questions that are still to be raised. Let's not let the seeming impossibilities of them keep us from thinking them through and bringing them out in the open.

[Fran]

Any operations/organization that receives and disburse monies are businesses. That includes ministries, your local church, GC, etc. Don’t get hung up on the type of business, be it a ministry (non-for-profit) or for-profit. 3ABN has employees and is required to withhold taxes, uses double entry accounting to record its transactions, pays bills, deposits funds, has a bank account, does sales and marketing, etc. These are all business functions.

Now if you want to debate and discuss whether 3ABN is a corrupt business then carry on.

Danny is an employee and so was Linda. He being the founder and owner has no bearing on his status as an employee. He receives a salary for service to 3ABN and gets a W2 every January as proof of his employment like all the other employees.

Normally, I would agree with you because businesses are required to follow Generally Accepted Accounting Principles. (GAAP)

However, 3ABN has chosen not to follow Gaap. Reference the IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax lawsuit. It CLEARLY STATES that 3ABN, a 20 year old corporation, DID NOT follow GAAP.

Then if you compare the lawsuit with the yearly non-profit Income Tax form 990, you will find they have problems with valuation of Assets and with TRUST FUNDS.
Anyone can order copies of their yearly form 990's that have been filed. Anyone can read the 3ABN Tax Lawsuit at:

http://www.revenue.state.il.us/legalinform...s/pt/pt04-1.pdf

Auditors found $2.45 million not even posted in one year and $1.7 in the next year. Yes, I have very STRONG issues about 3ABN TRUST FUNDS. By the way they call them Split Interest Transactions no less! They didn't list them with "TRUST FUNDS" until AFTER the Auditors found it.

Then the auditors said these assets, TRUST FUNDS, were not properly valued. Hummmmm.

Wake up viewers. This is the HABIT of 3ABN! Follow what Danny says. Forget those GAAP rules! They do not exist for Danny & LINDA'S 3ABN. Half is hers!

[watchbird]

Hi Watchbird,

I was always taught that there are consequences to our actions. At least that's what we spend the first several years of our childrens' lives teaching them.

In a church, if an offense is a public one, then the consequence and restitution needs to be public. It is my personal belief that Danny has gone to far down this road to humble himself in a way that is necessay to change this situation around and make it right. He is a very proud and stubborn man. I think he still believes he'll get away with it.

I agree completely. I think that all of his cohorts think that if he steps out of the limelight for a few days or weeks, and then comes back professing to have had a "mountaintop experience" with God and that he sees that he was wrong in the way he handled his ex-wife's infidelity ... and gives a teary eyed confession for that "wrong" ... .then tops it off with a dip in the tank ... that he will be joyfully acclaimed, his "anointed" status will be not only returned but enhanced, and it will be "business" as usual for his Pentecostal league of 3ABN directors. (Did you notice that Mollie was already laying the groundwork for this in her announcement of their plans to have another gala "Ten Commandments weekend" next year?

Another point that goes along with this is the matter of trust once someone has proven himself to be untrustworthy. In the business world, once a man has been caught with his hand in the till, that man is never given a job that involves handling money again. Danny has proven, I think, beyond a shadow of a doubt that he has betrayed the trust that people have put in him. Notice Fran's information on finances. Therefore, I think the only acceptable solution is for Danny to be permanently separated from 3ABN.

Unless .....

He refuses to do that. And in that case I think the church should permanently and completely separate from him and let him and his Pentecostal partners to go on their own as a frankly Pentecostal network. If he tries too many shenanigans in that venue .... well, they have watchdog organizations that will catch up with him sooner or later.

[princessdi]

Calvin, you are exactly right! It IS a business. However, the problem comes in that they only use that when it benefits them. Danny is really glad that you understand his position on this matter. In fact, I am sure he was counting on some level headed business people to help convince everyone else that what he did to Linda was "business as ususal", therefore not wrong.

This is, however, the problem, 99% of the time they are on TV they are promoting themselves as a ministry, knowing full well the common lay person will not connect business and ministry. We assign them both a certain set of values and behaviors. Now while, as an employee 3ABN has covered all of their legal bases, for now, with Linda. As a "ministry" which calls itself a leader in christian[and moral] living, what they did was deplorable. Christian living is based on the fact that we don't do things like the world. In particular in Adventism we worry folks to death about eating meat and their clothes, jewelry. How can we then retreat into acceptance to a less than ethical worldly business practice. Steve is right Donald Trump and Will Smith, and others, did a far better job of being 'Christian[moral]" in their treament of their ex wives than Danny has, and we don't really considered either of them to be christian. By law, they both could have done a lot less and still been within their legal rights, but they took the moral high ground. One who even did them one better is Bernie Mac, who divorced his wife in November 2005, let it be announced once this year and said that is all I am going to say. She is till the mother of my child.

Even if the 3ABN board(the true bsuiness end) wanted to treat Linda in such a manner, Danny should have been using his influence over them to discourage that. 3ABN is a buisness their marriage was not, at least to Linda.


If that is even good buisness as usual, I want to see Danny be booted out and take only $250,000.00. We will be back to "I am the founder" before we know it, we will hear nothing about Danny being an employee.

Any operations/organization that receives and disburse monies are businesses. That includes ministries, your local church, GC, etc. Don’t get hung up on the type of business, be it a ministry (non-for-profit) or for-profit. 3ABN has employees and is required to withhold taxes, uses double entry accounting to record its transactions, pays bills, deposits funds, has a bank account, does sales and marketing, etc. These are all business functions.

Now if you want to debate and discuss whether 3ABN is a corrupt business then carry on.

Danny is an employee and so was Linda. He being the founder and owner has no bearing on his status as an employee. He receives a salary for service to 3ABN and gets a W2 every January as proof of his employment like all the other employees.

This post has been edited by princessdi: Aug 16 2006, 03:48 PM

[västergötland]

Some interesting reading in this document that Fran provided...

p28 First, the record in Inter-Varsity shows that the fellowship based the price of each
publication that it sold strictly on its cost to the fellowship. Id. at 800, 803. The record contains
absolutely no evidence proving how 3ABN determines the prices of the satellite dishes, videos,
airtime, CD’s and other items that it sells other than Danny Shelton’s testimony that the pricing
guide applicant uses for sales of its videos, CD’s etc. is “that they are affordable.” (Tr. pp. 168-
170). Absent this evidence, I must resolve all failures of proof against the applicant and in favor
of taxation. People ex rel. Norland v. Home for the Aged, 40 Ill.2d 91 (1968); Gas Research
Institute v. Department of Revenue, 154 Ill.App.3d 430 (1st Dist. 1987). Therefore, I conclude
that applicant employs a non-exempt commercial or retail pricing system unlike the Inter-Varsity
Fellowship pricing method.

Second, the Inter-Varsity record specifically disclosed that the fellowship provided “a
substantial amount of materials free or below cost to groups that are targeted for its message.”
Inter-Varsity, supra, at 803. Specifically, the fellowship gave away no less than 10% of its total
publications free of charge and sold an unspecified amount of its literature “at half price to
individuals with the idea that they would give the books away.” Id. at 800.
Such is not the case here. Applicant did not establish that they gave anything away free
except for the catalogues that list the merchandise that is for sale. In addition, absent evidence to
the contrary, I conclude that at least one private individual, Linda Shelton, profits from the sale
of items listed in the catalogue. Applicant’s board has no written policy to give away or donate
29
its satellite systems, nor was a clear policy even articulated through oral testimony. Rather, if an
individual were unable to pay the cost of the system, applicant’s secretary would contact Danny
Shelton who would determine, with the board’s guidance, whether the product should be given
away. “Applicant has no policy that says give away.” (Tr. pp. 295-303).
In fact, applicant has no records of materials given away in 2000 or 2001. Applicant has
no specific written policy that outlines what factors are used or what direction is given by
applicant’s board or president that allows applicant to distribute items at a reduced rate or free of
charge. (Tr. pp. 586-589, 614-616). Applicant has, therefore, failed to establish that the facts
relied upon by the Inter-Varsity court to grant the exemption therein are present in this case.

[GrammieTana]

Hi, CJO:

Thanks for your note. How do you use the virgin coconut oil and where do you get it? Do you have to take it on a monitoring dosage or can you just take it when you need it? You may have answered these questions, but it looks like some of your message was lost . . . anyway, thanks for the suggestion. I will check on the possibilities. Blessings, Tana

[husbandoftheyear]

Have I missed something? There is a lot of discussion that seems to imply that Danny is on his way out. (By the way - I'm not heartbroken over the possibility! Just curious.)

And IF Dan severs himself from 3ABN - do you honestly think there will be restitution? If that subject were given a moment's consideration by the board I'd be surprised. To pay restitution would imply wrongdoing now wouldn't it?! The pres is definity not going to admit to anything of the sort.