Dr. Bacchiocchi's Thoughts, A Biblical Study Options

[awesumtenor]

Dr. Bacchocci's reflect and approach is not only biblical but as equally importantly IMO addresses what is known for certain is factual and beyond speculation and hearsay, leaving both to their dignity as Christians.

It does, however raise some thoughts in another area.... Is he suggesting that even a person who is a widow/widower or a person who it is clearly known has grounds for divorce due to adultery should not be placed in leadership of the church if they re-marry?

Absent the man's stating otherwise, you should read it for what he stated it is... an assessment of that specific situation; any extrapolated tangents toward wide spread gneral application would be
for this thread in this forum.

You can always fish in another pond, however...

In His service,
Mr. J

Same answer still applies, sarah.

[simplysaved]

And if you were the administration of BSDA or God it might be worth consideration...but since you are neither, and no rules have been violated, as a Moderator, all members are welcome to reply as it very much a part of this thread discussion.

Your thoughts have been noted.

Same answer still applies, sarah.

[Expression]

I do not see everything the way Dr. Bacchiocchi does, but I really appreciate his thoughts. Making a statement and taking a stand has never been easy or popular--and yet it has always been needed. Church leaders have been all too quiet about the 3ABN situation and I hope others will come forward in the near future.

Thank you Dr. Bacchiocchi for sharing this with us.

[Clay]

perhaps this thread that is dealing with divorce and remarriage be moved to the married forum....

[simplysaved]

That is a very good idea....thanks for the suggestion. Can you please move it?

perhaps this thread that is dealing with divorce and remarriage be moved to the married forum....

[Clay]

That is a very good idea....thanks for the suggestion. Can you please move it?

done.....

[princessdi]

Scary as this is........I have to agree with Sarah here. I know that everyone involved is more than ready for ALL of the issues to be resolved, but the good Dr. has really given what is needed, just enough to get Danny removed at 3ABN, or at least enough of a warning to get GC to distance themselves. They cannot in good conscious maintain a relationship with Danny when he is not living acording to biblical principles, especially as a leader, one giving an Adventist face to the world. What the Dr. addressed is enough to get any other leader removed from office, it should be enough to warrant discipline for Danny. Also, it is the avenue that even the hardliners cannot ignore. It is the area which will more garner wide spread support.

The rest can also be dealt with in due time. It is not that there is not enough evidence, but it is definitely not as solid as the divorce/remarriage situation. Primarily because there is a solid biblical basis for it. We have hear several some here and say they lost interest when other matters came up with sketchy details. and It seemed like gossip at that point. Now, while it ia initially clear that these people did not take time to read carefully to get all the information on the other issues, it is also clear that they cannot over look the divorce/remarriage situation. IOW, it is a start. Begin with that, and the rest will come.

Dr. Bacchocci's reflect and approach is not only biblical but as equally importantly IMO addresses what is known for certain is factual and beyond speculation and hearsay, leaving both to their dignity as Christians.

This post has been edited by princessdi: Sep 14 2006, 03:04 PM

[västergötland]

I wonder if the people that watch 3abn are the same people who would write hate mail to Dr B for his articles on EllenW? In other words, one of the groups of SDA that would have benefited from reading this may have already stoped reading the endtime issue newsletters.

[Panama_Pete]

Before we get too overawed by the Doc having his qualified "say" in the matter, it would be well to note that in the beginning .... within a very short time after Linda was ousted from 3abn, the doc listened to Johann and others, and essentially promised to write in her defense in one of his next newsletters. But not long after that he backed away, choosing to not "get involved".

Watchbird. He did get involved in 2004.

I personally think 3ABN made Bacchiocchi offers in 2004 to "neutralized" him.

So many Adventists have no immunity to the insidious West Frankfort virus. Once that infected mosquito bites you, you're in trouble. We need to be grateful that he is recovering. Without treatment, West Frankfort virus can remain in your system for years, causing you to compulsively seek out TV cameras.

This was in Endtime Issue Number 119.

http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/endtimeissues/et_119.htm

3ABN has invited Dr. Samuele Bacchiocchi to be a guest on a live
two-hour program in December on “The Passion of Christ,” on their
flagship program 3ABN Today. Plans are also in progress to produce
future programs with him as well.

I wish to thank 3ABN for inviting me to participate in some of their
live programs and for airing some of my popular messages. The aim is to
broaden the outreach of 3ABN by attracting viewers who look for a more
substantive presentation of biblical truths. I will be sure to inform you
about the time of the airing of my messages.

This is from Endtime Issue 122 which came out December 9, 2004.

http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/endtimeissues/et_122.pdf

APPEARANCE ON 3ABN ON DECEMBER 9, 2004

3ABN has extended me an official invitation to present the highlights
of my forthcoming book THE PASSION OF CHRIST IN SCRIPTURE
AND HISTORY on Thursday evening, December 9, 2004 during the two
hours popular live program.

The program will be aired twice. The first time on Thursday
evening December 9, at 8:00 p. m. Central Standard time and the second
time on Friday, December 10, at 1:00 a. m Central Standard Time. In the
next newsletters I should have the time for the overseas airing.

This post has been edited by Panama_Pete: Sep 15 2006, 06:12 AM

[justme]

Dr. Bacchiocchi has given us his analysis as they do it at the seminary, in light of all the references thay use up there. It is his personal view, just as this forum is a collection of personal views. His is no more or less authoritative because we each answer only to God in this regard.

Les us also remember that when one spouse committs adultry in the bed of another, it is called "adultry" as we all know. Jesus said that we also committ adultery if we so much as "lust " after another other than our spouse. Is that "grounds" as well? Is that a violation of the "Marriage bed"?

What if one spouse takes no interest in the sexual needs of the other spouse? Does that spouse then become the "victim" if the 'starved spouse" accepts the love of another?

I also know of a couple who has an agreement. It is this. If either of us "wants it" and the other is not available, take whatever IS available, and we don't discuss it afterwards. Is that adultry if they each/both agree it is OK?

Where does "blame" and "culpability" begin or end?

Who is the "CAUSE" and who was the 'EFFECT"?

Is "Self-righteousness" the absence of knowledge of "Cause and Effect".
What about a "PSYCHOPATH",and a "SOCIOPATH".

[simplysaved]

I have asked that question in another 3ABN thread...will post when I locate it.

Dr. Bacchiocchi has given us his analysis as they do it at the seminary, in light of all the references thay use up there. It is his personal view, just as this forum is a collection of personal views. His is no more or less authoritative because we each answer only to God in this regard.

Les us also remember that when one spouse committs adultry in the bed of another, it is called "adultry" as we all know. Jesus said that we also committ adultery if we so much as "lust " after another other than our spouse. Is that "grounds" as well? Is that a violation of the "Marriage bed"?
What if one spouse takes no interest in the sexual needs of the other spouse? Does that spouse then become the "victim" if the 'starved spouse" accepts the love of another?

I also know of a couple who has an agreement. It is this. If either of us "wants it" and the other is not available, take whatever IS available, and we don't discuss it afterwards. Is that adultry if they each/both agree it is OK?

Where does "blame" and "culpability" begin or end?

Who is the "CAUSE" and who was the 'EFFECT"?

Is "Self-righteousness" the absence of knowledge of "Cause and Effect".
What about a "PSYCHOPATH",and a "SOCIOPATH".

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?a...=48&t=10247

Found it!

[Tammy]

Being a long time follower of Bacchiocchi's newsletters, I think he gives the immediate answer to the question of "why" in his early paragraphs .... he had a bunch of requests from readers of his newsletters .... and he had a book on the subject so he could use this as an excuse to promote that .... and he didn't have any other really bright ideas for subject matter (witness the fact that the majority of his several recent newsletters has been the reprinting of articles by other people, plus, of course, his own self-promotional material. (If I sound cynical when it comes to the dear "boc doc" (long history behind that nickname) it is only because I am... long history behind that also, but that would be WAY to far "off topic".)

I think you "hit the nail on the head" as they say, Watchbird....I see the letter as a "marketing" tool for his book...

[Tammy]

I agree with Watchbird....this letter was written as a "marketing tool".... I heard Bacchiocchi speak years ago, and it is ALL about "Dr. Bacchiocchi" this and "Dr. Bacchiocchi" that....sorry to be a pessimest...but he is far too "high on himself" for me to put any stock in what he has to say. Did you notice, there was not one Spirit of Prophecy quote in that letter he wrote? I believe it is because he is not in harmony with the Spirit of Prophecy on his understanding of divorce.

[Tammy]

Please compare what the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy say, concerning divorce, to what Bacchiocchi says....he is NOT teaching Scripture...He is perverting Scripture! BEWARE!

The Bible says:

And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. Matthew 19:9

But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. Matthew 5:32

The Spirit of Prophecy says:

God gave only one cause why a wife should leave her husband, or the husband leave his wife, which was adultery. Let this ground be prayerfully considered. {AH 342.2}

-Your ideas in regard to the marriage relation have been erroneous. Nothing but the violation of the marriage bed can either break or annul the marriage vow. We are living in perilous times, when there is no assurance in anything save in firm, unwavering faith in Jesus Christ. There is no heart that may not be estranged from God through the devices of Satan, if one does not watch unto prayer. {AH 341.3}

Bacchiocchi says:

In my book THE MARRIAGE COVENANT I explain at great length that the exceptive clause of Matt 19:9 which admits divorce on the ground of porneia, can be best explained in the light of the Judeo-Christian readership of Matthew. While Mark and Luke write to Gentiles, Matthew write to Judeo-Christians. Jews were tribally related and it was easy for them to marry a close blood relative. Such marriages were condemned by the Mosaic law (Lev 18:6-18) and were called porneia.

Thus, Jesus allows for divorce only where a marriage should not have taken place in the first place, namely, within the degrees of prohibited relationships. Consequently, in Matthew, Jesus does not envisage any exception to the absolute ban on divorce but only allows for the dissolution of a marriage which was validly contracted according to Greco-Roman laws, but which was in conflict with the Mosaic law of prohibited relationships.

[västergötland]

Dr B using this partly as an opportunity to promote himself and/or his book? Probably.

Dr B lacking quotes from Ellen in his letter. Yes, So? I didnt miss them...
There sure was no lack of scripture.

EllenW the only true interpreter of scripture? This might become interesting.

Time to get comfortable for the show..