The Investigator Of 3abn Options

[Loud Cry]

Some think that Linda Shelton hired a Private Investigator to clear her name.....

This needs to be cleared up. As far as I know, Linda did not "hire" the "Private Investigator". The Investigator(s) are independently working on this for reasons that have not been discussed in this forum yet.

Just so ya know.....the Investigator(s),”he”, is a “they”.

They had been asked by several parties to investigate specific issues since July 2004. They opted out, other than a cursory e-mail inquiry or two. The heat began in earnest in March 2006, following the re-marriage and they again opted out. It was not until the arrival on August 21, 2006 at 4:30 pm on their fax machine of a signed copy of the Pastor Dryden letter that they began to informally investigate; And then someone else (a conference president) sent them a signed copy of the Allyssa letter.

(The Pastor Dryden letter is from the Pastor of the Ezra Church of God that brought the charges against Tommy Shelton for the molestation of young boys in four of five Church of God Pastorates that Tommy had served in.)


This was followed by witnesses of various issues contacting them and adding to the collage of information by the droves. The associates spoke about the findings and pointed out that with each contact and every leaf turned they were being over-run with allegations of inappropriate actions taken and financial issues of significant magnitude and felt compelled to pursue each and every allegation to it's most logical conclusion. The decision was made to proceed head-long in to the investigation and to establish minimum requirements for reform to disengage. They firmly believe that for some reason the Lord lead them to a very unusual run of information from the widest possible disbursement of sources and documents. It has been profound and certainly nothing close to what they had originally intended, however, in a month they have been absolutely amazed at the doors that have opened before them making it remarkably possible to move this entire bundle of issues to what they hope will be a speedy and equitable solution for Linda, Allyssa and the Remnant Church.

There will be a an announcement shortly regarding empanelling a tribunal under the auspices of ASI to which they will be able to give evidence and call witnesses. The specifics and dates are yet to be worked out, but it is another shocking development for the 3ABN board to agree to this. The 3ABN board has agreed in principal to empanel a tribunal under the auspices of ASI. ASI has tentatively agreed to sponsor such a panel, but the specifics are still unresolved and is yet to be fully formulated.

They (the Investigators) pray the Lord God to be with all the parties as they prepare for this very important event.


All you have read here is straight from the horses mouth, so to speak.



This post has been edited by Loud Cry: Oct 5 2006, 12:23 AM

[Ralph]

I was really excited until I read

There will be a an announcement shortly regarding empanelling a tribunal under the auspices of ASI to which they will be able to give evidence and call witnesses. .

ASI? Garwin Mcneilus?? An impartial hearing before this panel???? You gotta be kidding!

Sitting in the spacious office of the President of the World Conference, the Contributor bluntly tells the President that if the Church takes any action against the Televangelist, or does anything that would damage, or undermine him, the Church will not receive another penny of his money for World Missions. Considering that the World Missions budget comes primarily from the Contributor, the President knows that the Church will be rocked to its foundations by the loss of this man’s money. What will he do? What will the Church do?

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=144101

[Loud Cry]

I was really excited until I read

ASI? Garwin Mcneilus?? An impartial hearing before this panel???? You gotta be kidding!
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=144101

I have been told by the Investigator that, and I quote:

"If ASI cannot be counted to bring them into conformity with NAD working policy and Seventh Day Adventist standards, then the General Conference of Seventh Day dventists should act. If they both abbrogate their responsibility to the Remnant Church, then the laymen must take this into their own hands and end the perjury and eliminate access to our churches.

Some refer to this as the Adventist Jihad, and it may well be time for laymen to stand and be counted upon to stand shoulder to shoulder in the breach!!! If it is to be a Jihad, so be it, but reform must come for this church to prepare for the final conflict!!!

If we do our work with solemnity and faithfulness, taking on the whole armor of God and working
appropriately as the Church Militant, then the Lord will manifest His power within the Remnant Church. And we will become the CHURCH VICTORIOUS!!!

That is our most solemn prayer as we form the lines of battle to challenge this most serious hypocracy!!!"

It is no secret to those investigating that there is more corruption than meets the eye.....God's got it covered. Wait and see...and let's start prayin' more!

[Observer]

Folks, the devil is in the details. It is premature to say that a tribunal will be convened under ASI. Rather one can expect that the specifics will change quite rapidly. If it was accurate that ASI would handle it last week that does not mean that such is true today.

We can expect that both sides will object to aspects of the agreement that they do not agree are fair to them (or handicap them). We are probably in for a long haul until such a tribunal will actually meet. It may not be ASI.

We ought to wait for an official announcement.

[husbandoftheyear]

Folks, the devil is in the details. It is premature to say that a tribunal will be convened under ASI. Rather one can expect that the specifics will change quite rapidly. If it was accurate that ASI would handle it last week that does not mean that such is true today.

We can expect that both sides will object to aspects of the agreement that they do not agree are fair to them (or handicap them). We are probably in for a long haul until such a tribunal will actually meet. It may not be ASI.

We ought to wait for an official announcement.

Observer,
You should know by now that official announcements sometimes differ than the truth and especially so at 3ABN. You are correct in saying that it may not be ASI. It may never happen. But we can discuss the information presented.

BTW eveyone- What can ASI, NAD, GC, etc. do in this situation since 3ABN is not owned by them? I think I'm missing some point here.

[Truly Blonde]

I was really excited until I read

ASI? Garwin Mcneilus?? An impartial hearing before this panel???? You gotta be kidding!
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=144101

I agree Ralph. Why should 3abn have to agree to a tribunal if they are the ones being investigated? And be so willing to do so unless they feel they have ASI locked up in Garwin Mcneilus? I am wondering if this is another red herring. We wait patiently for a tribunal that never happens. It seems to me that in our country tribunals have no legal standing so whatever comes out in the tribunal, Danny and his gang or Linda and Alyssa could choose to accept or decline. We would be in the same place we are now. In the case of abuse and fraud, shouldn't the authorities be involved? These are criminal activities. How does a tribunal deal with that? Now if the reason for a tribunal is to disassociate the Adventist Church with 3 abn that is one thing. I firmly believe this should happen. When a man was putting up signs in Florida saying Rome was the Anti Christ the GC had no problem sueing him so he couldn't use the Seventh Day Adventist name. IMHO this is much more serious and yet we are talking tribunal? Where is the loud cry we should be hearing from the GC? Is this another tactic to sweep things under the rug?

ASI has every right to talk Jihad. I would expect that an awful lot of money is donated to 3abn by ASI. Also a lot to the GC. They are powerful enough that they should be able to make the GC listen to them. The fact still remains that Danny owns 3abn. How do we get rid of him and his cronies at 3abn? I havn't figured that out yet.

As I read the threads on 3abn, I am once again aware of the toenails we are living in. The time is so short and Jesus WILL return again. I need to make sure that I am not being changed by the things that are happening at 3abn and in our world church. I need to hold fast to my Jesus and make sure that my relationship with him is the most important thing in my life. I also need to be sure and search my own heart that it is not revenge I seek in this hot mess on toast but that all of this will in the end bring a renewal to everyone's heart that is involved and a renewed relationship with Jesus Christ. I pray that there will be sincere repentance because that is the only way God can change a person's heart.

COME LORD JESUS!!!!!

[September]

As I read the threads on 3abn, I am once again aware of the toenails we are living in.

I'm sorry, color me clueless, but what does living in the toenails mean?

Your post was great, by the way. It's true that no matter what happens we need to keep our focus on Jesus. He has this whole thing with 3ABN all figured out already and the things that happen and have happend are within His time. This has also proven to me that we cannot look to people in this world--no matter who they are or what they do. We have to keep our focus on Jesus. I have heard Danny say many many times on 3ABN that our focus should be on Jesus because people will let us down. I wonder if he realizes how true--and how very close to home for him that statement is!

[Panama_Pete]

I'm sorry, color me clueless, but what does living in the toenails mean?

These toenails:

[PeacefulBe]

As I read the threads on 3abn, I am once again aware of the toenails we are living in. The time is so short and Jesus WILL return again. I need to make sure that I am not being changed by the things that are happening at 3abn and in our world church. I need to hold fast to my Jesus and make sure that my relationship with him is the most important thing in my life. I also need to be sure and search my own heart that it is not revenge I seek in this hot mess on toast but that all of this will in the end bring a renewal to everyone's heart that is involved and a renewed relationship with Jesus Christ. I pray that there will be sincere repentance because that is the only way God can change a person's heart.

COME LORD JESUS!!!!!

AMEN, TB!!!

[justme]

I agree Ralph. Why should 3abn have to agree to a tribunal if they are the ones being investigated? And be so willing to do so unless they feel they have ASI locked up in Garwin Mcneilus? I am wondering if this is another red herring. We wait patiently for a tribunal that never happens. It seems to me that in our country tribunals have no legal standing so whatever comes out in the tribunal, Danny and his gang or Linda and Alyssa could choose to accept or decline. We would be in the same place we are now. In the case of abuse and fraud, shouldn't the authorities be involved? These are criminal activities. How does a tribunal deal with that? Now if the reason for a tribunal is to disassociate the Adventist Church with 3 abn that is one thing. I firmly believe this should happen. When a man was putting up signs in Florida saying Rome was the Anti Christ the GC had no problem sueing him so he couldn't use the Seventh Day Adventist name. IMHO this is much more serious and yet we are talking tribunal? Where is the loud cry we should be hearing from the GC? Is this another tactic to sweep things under the rug?

ASI has every right to talk Jihad. I would expect that an awful lot of money is donated to 3abn by ASI. Also a lot to the GC. They are powerful enough that they should be able to make the GC listen to them. The fact still remains that Danny owns 3abn. How do we get rid of him and his cronies at 3abn? I havn't figured that out yet.

As I read the threads on 3abn, I am once again aware of the toenails we are living in. The time is so short and Jesus WILL return again. I need to make sure that I am not being changed by the things that are happening at 3abn and in our world church. I need to hold fast to my Jesus and make sure that my relationship with him is the most important thing in my life. I also need to be sure and search my own heart that it is not revenge I seek in this hot mess on toast but that all of this will in the end bring a renewal to everyone's heart that is involved and a renewed relationship with Jesus Christ. I pray that there will be sincere repentance because that is the only way God can change a person's heart.

COME LORD JESUS!!!!!

TB ..."How do we get rid of him and his cronies at 3abn? I havn't figured that out yet."

That's why we are still praying for God's will AND God's "ways" and God's "timing". He can co it so much better than we could ever imagine.

I like this one, "Be still an know that I am GOD!" and, "MY Peace I give unto you. ...".
Cool, huh?!

[Green Cochoa]

I'm sorry, color me clueless, but what does living in the toenails mean?

September, pardon me if I'm explaining something you've figured out by now, but I just thought that in case you haven't understood that picture, I'd share a few more details.

That picture of the statue represents King Nebuchadnezzar's dream, found in Daniel chapter 2. God gave him the dream to show the future of the world. The head represented the current ruling kingdom, Babylon, followed by the chest/arms for Persia, and then the belly and thighs for Greece. The legs represented the long-lived kingdom of Rome, and the feet were made of iron and clay, showing that after Rome, many kingdoms would form. When we speak of "living in the toes" or the "toenails" we mean that we are down to the last inch of time in earth's history before Jesus comes--which was represented in the dream as a stone coming and grinding up the whole statue and setting up a new, eternal kingdom. Read Daniel chapter 2 for more details...

[September]

September, pardon me if I'm explaining something you've figured out by now, but I just thought that in case you haven't understood that picture, I'd share a few more details.

That picture of the statue represents King Nebuchadnezzar's dream, found in Daniel chapter 2. God gave him the dream to show the future of the world. The head represented the current ruling kingdom, Babylon, followed by the chest/arms for Persia, and then the belly and thighs for Greece. The legs represented the long-lived kingdom of Rome, and the feet were made of iron and clay, showing that after Rome, many kingdoms would form. When we speak of "living in the toes" or the "toenails" we mean that we are down to the last inch of time in earth's history before Jesus comes--which was represented in the dream as a stone coming and grinding up the whole statue and setting up a new, eternal kingdom. Read Daniel chapter 2 for more details...

Thank you Green I have seen that picture--or a picture like it a time or two before, but never understood what it all meant. I'll have to read up on it Thanks for your explaination!

[fallible humanbe...]

. . . It seems to me that in our country tribunals have no legal standing so whatever comes out in the tribunal . . .

American Heritage Dictionary
tri·bu·nal (tr-bynl, tr-), n.
1. Law.
1. A seat or court of justice.
2. The bench on which a judge or other presiding officer sits in court.
2. A committee or board appointed to adjudicate in a particular matter.
3. Something that has the power to determine or judge: the tribunal of public opinion.
[Middle English, from Old French, from Latin tribnal, judge's platform, from tribnus, tribune. See tribune1.]

ASI has every right to talk Jihad.

American Heritage Dictionary
ji·had also je·had (j-hd), n.
1. A Muslim holy war or spiritual struggle against infidels.
[Arabic jihd, from jahada, to strive. See ghd in Semitic Roots.]

Seems like a rather inflamatory word to be applied in a reasoned discussion (reason is the use of thinking without the subjectivity of emotions), don't you think? In our culture there is little, if any, positive or redemptive connotation to the word, "jihad". Infact the word more often is associated with hate, fear, and lack of understanding. While neither is evident in the above definition, within our current historical context this word can not effectively be used without the association to hate, fear, and lack of understanding. I know you didn't introduce this word into the discussion but since it is here I think this point needs to be raised.

Which of these definitions of rhetoric will we use here in our discourse?

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
rhet·o·ric (rtr-k), n.
1. a. The art or study of using language effectively and persuasively.
b. A treatise or book discussing this art.
2. Skill in using language effectively and persuasively.
3. a. A style of speaking or writing, especially the language of a particular subject
b. Language that is elaborate, pretentious, insincere, or intellectually vacuous
4. Verbal communication; discourse.
[Middle English rethorik, from Old French rethorique, from Latin rhtoric, rhtorica, from Greek rhtorik (tekhn), rhetorical (art), feminine of rhtorikos, rhetorical, from rhtr, rhetor. See rhetor.]

I need to hold fast to my Jesus and make sure that my relationship with him is the most important thing in my life.

The essence of the true Chrisitan experience. A growing relationship with God - a one-on-one, side-by-side experience.

I know I have been at times defensive, and possibly somewhat disingenuous in some of my comments, allowing emotion to carry my responses rather than reasoned thinking. As well, I have also been incorrect in a statement or two. But, I have attempted to be civil about my disagreement with much of what has been posted here and at times the way or spirit in which it is presented.

I have stated numerous times that I believe there is plenty of blame to go around in the events of the past few years - I would venture that of the principals involved there isn't a one that doesn't have some mud on their shoes. I would also qualify that with a suggestion that some have stepped in it innocently. Therein is a possible definition of the state of mankind. We all at times are intentional with our selfish deeds (arguing that we don't intend to hurt another, but our only concern is our desire which blinds us to the extenuating consequences), other times our actions are innocently conducted and most often misinterpreted by those around us. We are all selfish, this is the most visible of the "sins" we commit. Aristotle said, "I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies; for the hardest victory is over self." And, isn't this the plea God makes to each of us, deny self and follow Me, do as I do exemplified in the life of my Son? How much does that apply to each of us to the extent it has been projected onto the main individuals in this ongoing situation.

What about the admonition to "love thy neighbor as thy self?" No qualifications. Aristotle also said as much, "The best friend is the man who in wishing me well wishes it for my sake." It's cliche, but important when we consider the strife and struggles of others and ourselves: God loves the sinner, but hates sin. Rhetorically, I find myself presented with the question, "Where are we going with this?" When all is said and done, and everyones hand has been forced will there not still be a "Danny/3ABN" side and a "Linda" side? Can either side, or both, who has invested such heavy emotion into this situation step back and heal? Can either group of so heavily invested individuals move from the current acrimonious atmosphere and say, "God's will has been done, I am satisfied in that." and work toward embracing their adversaries? There is only one way to consider that question, as it applies to each of us individually. We can't say, "I will but they won't" that is the perpetuation of the spirit of the current situation.

What does it mean to leave it in God's hands? How do humans, "love the sinner, but hate the sin?"

- fhb

PS, my apologies in advance, I usually make it a habit of rereading at least twice what I write to insure correct spelling and integrity of thought - I don't have time right now to do that.

This post has been edited by fallible humanbeing: Oct 5 2006, 12:49 PM

[justme]

American Heritage Dictionary
tri·bu·nal (tr-bynl, tr-), n.
1. Law.
1. A seat or court of justice.
2. The bench on which a judge or other presiding officer sits in court.
2. A committee or board appointed to adjudicate in a particular matter.
3. Something that has the power to determine or judge: the tribunal of public opinion.
[Middle English, from Old French, from Latin tribnal, judge's platform, from tribnus, tribune. See tribune1.]
American Heritage Dictionary
ji·had also je·had (j-hd), n.
1. A Muslim holy war or spiritual struggle against infidels.
[Arabic jihd, from jahada, to strive. See ghd in Semitic Roots.]

Seems like a rather inflamatory word to be applied in a reasoned discussion (reason is the use of thinking without the subjectivity of emotions), don't you think? In our culture there is little, if any, positive or redemptive connotation to the word, "jihad". Infact the word more often is associated with hate, fear, and lack of understanding. While neither is evident in the above definition, within our current historical context this word can not effectively be used without the association to hate, fear, and lack of understanding. I know you didn't introduce this word into the discussion but since it is here I think this point needs to be raised.

Which of these definitions of rhetoric will we use here in our discourse?

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
rhet·o·ric (rtr-k), n.
1. a. The art or study of using language effectively and persuasively.
b. A treatise or book discussing this art.
2. Skill in using language effectively and persuasively.
3. a. A style of speaking or writing, especially the language of a particular subject
b. Language that is elaborate, pretentious, insincere, or intellectually vacuous
4. Verbal communication; discourse.
[Middle English rethorik, from Old French rethorique, from Latin rhtoric, rhtorica, from Greek rhtorik (tekhn), rhetorical (art), feminine of rhtorikos, rhetorical, from rhtr, rhetor. See rhetor.]
The essence of the true Chrisitan experience. A growing relationship with God - a one-on-one, side-by-side experience.

I know I have been at times defensive, and possibly somewhat disingenuous in my comments, allowing emotion to carry my responses rather than reasoned thinking. As well, I have also been incorrect in a statement or two. But, I have attempted to be civil about my disagreement with much of what has been posted here and at times the way or spirit in which it is presented.

I have stated numerous times that I believe there is plenty of blame to go around in the events of the past few years - I would venture that of the principals involved there isn't a one that doesn't have some mud on their shoes. I would also qualify that with a suggestion that some have stepped in it innocently. Therein is a possible definition of the state of mankind. We all at times are intentional with our selfish deeds (arguing that we don't intend to hurt another, but our only concern is our desire which blinds us to the extenuating consequences), other times our actions are innocently conducted and most often misinterpreted by those around us. We are all selfish, this is the most visible of the "sins" we commit. Aristotle said, "I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies; for the hardest victory is over self." And, isn't this the plea God makes to each of us, deny self and follow Me, do as I do exemplified in the life of my Son? How much does that apply to each of us to the extent it has been projected onto the main individuals in this ongoing situation.

What about the admonition to "love thy neighbor as thy self?" No qualifications. Aristotle also said as much, "The best friend is the man who in wishing me well wishes it for my sake." It's cliche, but important when we consider the strife and struggles of others and ourselves: God loves the sinner, but hates sin. Rhetorically, I find myself presented with the question, "Where are we going with this?" When all is said and done, and everyones hand has been forced will there not still be a "Danny/3ABN" side and a "Linda" side? Can either side, or both, who has invested such heavy emotion into this situation step back and heal? Can either group of so heavily invested individuals move from the current acrimonious atmosphere and say, "God's will has been done, I am satisfied in that." and work toward embracing their adversaries? There is only one way to consider that question, as it applies to each of us individually. We can't say, "I will but they won't" that is the perpetuation of the spirit of the current situation.

What does it mean to leave it in God's hands? How do humans, "love the sinner, but hate the sin?"

- fhb

PS, my apologies in advance, I usually make it a habit of rereading at least twice what I write to insure correct spelling and integrity of thought - I don't have time right now to do that.

_______________________
. Thank you -fhb
-fhb, I thought I was only one of only a very few who is/are still trying to get this across. Love sinners/hate sin! Thank you again.

_______________________
"Jihad"? Naw, it doesn't fit here. It's just a term with religious overtones that is bantered about in the news. Jesus said, "If my kingdom were of this world THEN would my servants fight". physically, here and now.

I notice that definitions may evolve/change from time to time because of "intent", "content", and "colloquialism usage" (did I say that right?) you get it, I'm sure. These days a word has more various meanings in the minds of men that it does in the dictionary. Miscommunication starts many a war.
____
Thank heaven God never changes! God speaks EVERY MAN'S LANGUAGE!
(if mankind will listen)
We are in a spiritual battle against Satan, and Jesus is our Commander. You and I are the ones THEY are fighting for. "Choose ye this day Whom ye will serve". (need I remind us all that the battle is already won. Guess Who won?"

Old "slippery foot" is trying to get us to fight amongst ourselves to draw our attention away from Jesus, and away from praying that God's will be done.

Justice is just around the corner .. (but, which corner?)

Our best Defender and the best Prosecutor is Jesus. And, guess Who Jesus'(s) Father is, ...the JUDGE! WOW! How can we lose!?!

"Be still and know that I AM GOD", God says.




"Love the sinner but hate the sin"?

You love your children, but you may HATE something they do.

[fallible humanbe...]

You love your children, but you may HATE something they do.

Okay, I have to use one of these pesky things so true, so true, so true! And, at times on a daily basis.