Reflections On How To Resolve The 3abn Issues. Options

[Observer]

Several hours ago, Gregory Matthews posted the following in MSDAOL:

"Reflections of Course of Action

I have been reflecting, over the past 20 hours or so on how the situation at 3-ABN can be resolved, who it is that can properly resolve it, and in general terms, what can be done. As I have thought about this, I have come to the conclusion that it is more complex than I had previously considered. There are clear limitations what can be done by some. There are questions to be asked, and issues to be decided that are not easy.

I have not thoroughly organized my thinking, at this point in time, in a clear manner. But, here are some of my thoughts:

1) Some critical issues, or facts:

a) It appears that 3-ABN, and Danny Shelton will not participate in any type of a hearing in which they believe that they will not be treated fairly, and objectively. This is understandable. Most people would take that position. It is believed by some that this means that they will not participate in any type of a hearing before the SDA Church, or any affiliate organization. Whether this is accurate, remains to be seen. The reality is that without the participation of 3-ABN/Danny Shelton, such a hearing would be unlikely to be effective in resolving issues.

B) It appears that certain people, who are said to claim inappropriate conduct by Danny Shelton against them, are unwilling to participate in any type of a hearing where they believe they will not be treated fairly and objectively. Again, that is understandable. Most people would take that position. This is thought to mean that they will not participate in hearings before ASI, the so-called 3-ABN Church, the IL Conference, and possibly more. Whether or not this is accurate, remains to be seen. In any case, without the participation of such, it is unlikely that such a hearing would be effective in resolving issues.

c) 3-ABN is an independent organization which places real limitations as to what it can be forced to do.

d) There are questions as to what power the 3-ABN Executive Board actually has.

e) Ethical issues exist in regard to whether or not it is appropriate for the so-called 3-ABN church, and/or the IL Conference of conduct any type of a hearing, yet in standard denominational polity, all such hearings must begin with them.

f) To what extent should the NAD, and/or the General Conference be involved, and/or can they be involved?

g) To what extent should/can the NAD and/or General Conference issue a public statement of position and recommended relationship of the denomination and/or its members to 3-ABN?

h) What legal liability exists for the NAD and/or General Conference for the actions of 3-ABN?

i) What issues can/should be resolved in denominational channels, as opposed to issues that can only be resolved in civil channels?

j) To what extent can the 3-ABN Board take effective action?

The above probably does not exhaust critical issues in regard to the resolutions of the situation at 3-ABN. But, they may illustrate the complexity of his situation. I will comment below on the above.

2) Issues a and b: The comments above speak for themselves. For understandable reasons, people on both sides of the issue are likely to be unwilling to participate in a hearing that they believe is either unfair, or not objective. The challenge to the denomination is to structure a hearing that all can accept. That may not be possible. If so, a denominational hearing cannot resolve the issues.

3) Issues c and d: 3-ABN has developed as a self-governing organization that may be able to function outside of the SDA Church. Currently, it carries certain denominationally developed and affiliated programming. But, it could likely continue to function, with none of this, and with all of its programming self-developed. It currently is officially authorized to solicit SDA members for funding. As such, it has developed a significant contributor base of SDAS and non-SDAs. If this authorization were removed, it would likely be able to raise its funding based upon its developed contributor base, and that many SDAs would continue to contribute to it.

4) Issue e: In ethics it is not required to demonstrate that something actually exists. One ethical requirement is that the “appearance” of wrong be avoided. Two important ethical issues in this saga are a) conflict of interest, and B) dual role/relationship. These clearly exist on both the level of the local congregation, and the IL conference. On the local level, there is a reason for that congregation to be called the 3-ABN church. The majority of its membership is either employed by 3-ABN, or otherwise has some sort of a relationship ton 3-ABN, or to someone employed to 3-ABN. On the IL Conference level, 3-ABN has an employee on the Conference Executive Board, and the President has close relatives employed by 3-ABN. There is a clear appearance of ethical conflicts at to both a and b above. Neither the local congregation, nor the IL Conference can be considered to be ethically objective and/or fair in their ability to deal with the issues.

5) Issue f: Standard SDA governance requires that issues begin at the local congregational level, go to the Conference, then the Union, to the NAD, and finally the General Conference. This can work well in a normal situation. As stated above, neither the local congregation, nor the Conference, can ethically handle this situation. If so, can the Union directly step in? What about the NAD, and the General Conference? 3-ABN is more than a local organization. It is an organization that has NAD influence, and in some ways, has world-wide influence. Our standard SDA policy, which is focused on mere local situations, does not really address issues that relate to organizations that have NAD and world-wide impact. Such situations should be addressed by the NAD, and/or the General Conference. Yet, our policy does not provide for such.

6) Issues g: Some will tell us that the denomination (either the NAD, or the GC) could /should take the moral high-ground and issues a public statement, and take the few options open to it. After all, the Church has begun to speak on social/civil issues. If the denomination can issue public statements on what some call political issues, should it not do the same in this case? In their minds, such a statement might include a recommendation that SDAs not fund 3-ABN. John L. (the local pastor who is employed by the IL Conference) could be required to either leave denominational employment, or be transferred elsewhere, and the Conference would no longer provide a pastor. This has been done in other locations. I3-ABN personnel could be removed from the Conference Executive Committee. Denominational employees could resign from the 3-ABN Board. If such were done, 3-ABN could likely continue, even if in a reduced role. However, there are some who argue strongly that the denomination should cut all ties to 3-ABN.

7) Issue h: The answer to this question is uncertain. Legal experts will argue that the denomination has no legal liability for any of the actions of 3-ABN and/or Danny Shelton, as it is an independent organization. There are also those who will propose the denomination is entangled with 3-ABN due to the IL Conference President, and others, sitting on the 3-ABN Board, along with a 3-ABN employee sitting on the IL Conference Executive Board. The legal liability which may or may not exist, in my opinion, is unclear.

8) Issue i: Folks, there is a very limited sphere in which the denomination can resolve these issues. Issues that involve violations of civil law cannot be resolved by the denomination. The only recourse here is to the civil authorities. Issues regarding finance, expenditure of funds, tax issues, and other such, also fit into the area that belongs to the civil authorities. The denomination does not have the capability to resolve such. If these are to be resolved, they must be referred to the civil authorities. As this is true, people who allege such should take them to the civil authorities, and/or file such civil actions as are necessary to effect such resolution. They should be allowed to do so without criticism for doing so.

9) Issue j: In the secular world the Executive Board is the final authority. It hires the CEO, and directs the actions of that CEO. It sets overall policy, and direction, and the CEO follows that direction in the specifics, which the Board does not review in minute detail. If the Board is not satisfied with the direction that the CEO is going, it simply removes that CEO. However, it is uncertain as to whether or not the 3-ABN Board has that authority. Under the law, 3-ABN could have been incorporated in a manner where a very small group of people (who have been described as the Shelton family) had the power to appoint and remove members of the 3-ABN Board. If this is the manner under which 3-ABN was incorporated, the Board is very limited in power, and there is a very small group of people that is legally able to control the 3-ABN Board. I do not know if this is the manner of legal incorporation. But, this is a critical issue.

Folks, the issues are very complex here. The may be beyond human resolution in some aspects. It is possible that they can only be resolved by “divine intervention.” It is quite possible that resolution will require civil intervention, with people taking issues to the civil authorities.

Some knowledgeably people now believe that this issue is so complex that resolution requires that 3-ABN:

a) all of it current Board be removed
B) all top management be removed
c) totally go out of existence
d) the assets be transferred to a new organization
e) 3-ABN be totally rebuilt from the ground up, with totally new management and Board.

As you look at the above, be aware that in such, the ministry and mission of 3-ABN would continue.

The future of 3-ABN, depends in many ways upon the courage of people to know what is right, what God wants, and to do it.

Whether or not people will rise to that challenge, I do not know.

Gregory Matthews"

NOTE: in the origonal there were no smiling faces. They appeared in this copy, why, I do not know.

This post has been edited by Clay: Oct 7 2006, 03:24 PM

[Clay]

good summarization..... I will see if I can eliminate the smileys, but they show up when you put a ) after some characters, like 8, or b.... next time you want the smiley's not to show up, disable the emoticon feature for that post....

This post has been edited by Clay: Oct 7 2006, 03:25 PM

[PeacefulBe]

good summarization..... I will see if I can eliminate the smileys, but they show up when you put a ) after some characters, like 8, or b.... next time you want the smiley's not to show up, disable the emoticon feature for that post....

It seemed odd there would be smiley faces in a post of that nature. They were a bit of a distration. I'm glad you solved the mystery for me and could get them out.

[Skyhook]

That sounds like a well thought out assessment of the situation. Who is Gregory Matthews?

[sister]

Some knowledgeably people now believe that this issue is so complex that resolution requires that 3-ABN:

a) all of it current Board be removed
b) all top management be removed
c) totally go out of existence
d) the assets be transferred to a new organization
e) 3-ABN be totally rebuilt from the ground up, with totally new management and Board.

As you look at the above, be aware that in such, the ministry and mission of 3-ABN would continue.

The future of 3-ABN, depends in many ways upon the courage of people to know what is right, what God wants, and to do it.

Whether or not people will rise to that challenge, I do not know.

3ABN has become, administratively, like a body that has an untreated cancer. If caught in the early stages of the disease, it may be possible to control the condition through lifestyle changes. In the case of Danny Shelton that could have been achieved through repentance, restitution and reformation of character, through allowing the power of the Holy Spirit to accomplish this in his life. But as no reformative measures were taken to eradicate or slow the disease process, imperceptibly to the outside world, it continued to grow. Beginning in the head of the ministry, this insidious cancer has metastasized throughout the organization. Through the gathering of information and the testimony of many witnesses, it has become obvious that this is the current situation in regard to 3ABN. In order to save the ministry radical measures must be taken and the following points listed below may truly be the only resolution that would ensure that the ministry and mission of 3ABN would continue:

1. Removal of all the current 3ABN Board
2. Removal of all administrative personal
3. 3ABN, as it currently exists, eradicated
4. A new organization formed, with accountability and administrative transparency
5. All 3ABN assets transferred to the newly formed organization
6. A complete rebuilding of the ministry from the very foundation, with totally new management and Board.
7. New organizational structures that insure that no individual is given unlimited power in the regard to the operation of the ministry.

As in the case of a patient with advanced cancer, it is necessary to evoke radical measures in order to save the life of this ministry. When more facts are made available to the public at large, the wisdom of what at first appears to be extreme measures will become apparent. If people do not rise to the challenge soon, it could become impossible to save the ministry later as top management are lead away by civil authorities on the evening news.

[Clay]

3abn though is a private company.... yes it receives donations, but people cannot tell the owner of a company how to run his business.... that is why some of what people want to happen with 3abn is unrealistic.... if they have broken laws, then eventually the justice system will deal with them, if not, as long as someone is willing to donate, he can operate it as he sees fit....

again the question must be asked, if 3abn is such a mess, why do you all continue to watch it?

[Observer]

It was asked: "Who is Gregory Matthews?"

According to what Mr. Matthews has posted elsewhere:

Gregory Matthews is currently a hospital chaplain, a Seventh-day Adventist minister who is credentialed by the General Conference, and a former U. S. Army chaplain. He has been active in this 3ABN mess for several years. He has publicly stated that in his opinion Linda Shelton has done nothing that would give Danny Shelton Biblical grounds to divorce her. However, he does not criticize Danny for his re-marriage. He has stated that the focus should be on other issues. While he is credentialed by the General Conference, his opinions are simply his personal opinions, and should not be considered to be an official statement of denominational position.

I hope that this answers your question.

3ABN has become, administratively, like a body that has an untreated cancer. If caught in the early stages of the disease, it may be possible to control the condition through lifestyle changes. In the case of Danny Shelton that could have been achieved through repentance, restitution and reformation of character, through allowing the power of the Holy Spirit to accomplish this in his life. But as no reformative measures were taken to eradicate or slow the disease process, imperceptibly to the outside world, it continued to grow. Beginning in the head of the ministry, this insidious cancer has metastasized throughout the organization. Through the gathering of information and the testimony of many witnesses, it has become obvious that this is the current situation in regard to 3ABN. In order to save the ministry radical measures must be taken and the following points listed below may truly be the only resolution that would ensure that the ministry and mission of 3ABN would continue:

1. Removal of all the current 3ABN Board
2. Removal of all administrative personal
3. 3ABN, as it currently exists, eradicated
4. A new organization formed, with accountability and administrative transparency
5. All 3ABN assets transferred to the newly formed organization
6. A complete rebuilding of the ministry from the very foundation, with totally new management and Board.
7. New organizational structures that insure that no individual is given unlimited power in the regard to the operation of the ministry.

As in the case of a patient with advanced cancer, it is necessary to evoke radical measures in order to save the life of this ministry. When more facts are made available to the public at large, the wisdom of what at first appears to be extreme measures will become apparent. If people do not rise to the challenge soon, it could become impossible to save the ministry later as top management are lead away by civil authorities on the evening news.

Good statement.

[Green Cochoa]

...In order to save the ministry radical measures must be taken and ...
If people do not rise to the challenge soon, it could become impossible to save the ministry later as top management are lead away by civil authorities on the evening news.

So, what are we waiting for? What can I do to help? Give me my marching orders!

This post has been edited by Green Cochoa: Oct 8 2006, 04:25 AM

[Observer]

So, what are we waiting for? What can I do to help? Give me my marching orders!

It just may be that radical measures will/can only be taken after the involvement of civil authorities.

Many of the people involved in this have wanted to effect change in a denominational venue, without the intervention of civil authorities. That may not be possible.

[Jewel50]

Along the lines of what can we do to help. Maybe and I do say maybe others are going to start doing something and are giving out a warning to not put your trust in man.

Did anyone happen to catch Pastor Batchlor's sermon on the Internet Live yesterday, Sabbath? It was about fallen heros. Maybe it is because I know about all this 3ABN stuff but to me that is all I could see it pointing to. All speculation on my part however, but maybe he was given all those people who have put Danny up as some kind of "hero" in their minds a warning not to be shocked if their hero falls. And here I just have to say how they could do so is way beyond my understanding. The ones who make 3ABN are the people Pastor Batchlor, Pastor Bohr, Pastor Asscherick and those like them. They are the ones who are really getting the message out there. Anyone could do what Danny does and do it much better. His talents are not as an host or whatever you call what he does.

Amazing Facts should be putting up a link to the sermon given yesterday soon on their web site. Please go and listen to it and see if you think the same as I do or is it just wishful thinking on my part.

Here is the link to their site where all his sermons are uploaded to:

Joab -- A Fallen Hero

This post has been edited by Jewel50: Oct 8 2006, 08:16 AM

[summertime]

3abn though is a private company.... yes it receives donations, but people cannot tell the owner of a company how to run his business.... that is why some of what people want to happen with 3abn is unrealistic.... if they have broken laws, then eventually the justice system will deal with them, if not, as long as someone is willing to donate, he can operate it as he sees fit....

again the question must be asked, if 3abn is such a mess, why do you all continue to watch it?

I don't!!!!

[justme]

Along the lines of what can we do to help. Maybe and I do say maybe others are going to start doing something and are giving out a warning to not put your trust in man.

Did anyone happen to catch Pastor Batchlor's sermon on the Internet Live yesterday, Sabbath? It was about fallen heros. Maybe it is because I know about all this 3ABN stuff but to me that is all I could see it pointing to. All speculation on my part however, but maybe he was given all those people who have put Danny up as some kind of "hero" in their minds a warning not to be shocked if their hero falls. And here I just have to say how they could do so is way beyond my understanding. The ones who make 3ABN are the people Pastor Batchlor, Pastor Bohr, Pastor Asscherick and those like them. They are the ones who are really getting the message out there. Anyone could do what Danny does and do it much better. His talents are not as an host or whatever you call what he does.

Amazing Facts should be putting up a link to the sermon given yesterday soon on their web site. Please go and listen to it and see if you think the same as I do or is it just wishful thinking on my part.

Here is the link to their site where all his sermons are uploaded to:

Joab -- A Fallen Hero

I looked on the Amazing Facts site and “searched” for “Fallen Heroes” and found none.
I then went to “Best” “Archives” and found “free books in text” that are also for one to “Listen” to.

Because I didn’t hear the one you spoke of yesterday I don’t know how to determine ”success” for my search.

These two are on the subject of “Falling From Grace” parts 1 & 2..

http://www.amazingfacts.org/items/Read_Media.asp?ID=1219

http://www.amazingfacts.org/items/Read_Media.asp?ID=1221


I hope this helps for the time being.

[PeacefulBe]

Sister,

To further flesh out your cancer metaphor I would like to submit the following:

1. When symptoms of a disease become apparent, it is important for those around to urge the patient to seek evaluation by the fitting medical expert. If that doesn’t succeed, medical intervention may be indicated.
2. It is vital to have the appropriate tests performed by trained professionals to verify if cancer is indeed present and, if so, to determine the type, location and the proper course of treatment.
3. When removing cancerous cells it is always a good practice to delegate that job to a qualified surgeon so good flesh is not cut out with the bad.

As in the case of a patient with advanced cancer, it is necessary to evoke radical measures in order to save the life of this ministry. When more facts are made available to the public at large, the wisdom of what at first appears to be extreme measures will become apparent. If people do not rise to the challenge soon, it could become impossible to save the ministry later as top management are lead away by civil authorities on the evening news.

How would this be a bad thing? There would no longer be any doubt by present, past, and future donors and supporters that something was not kosher in the ministry. If civil authorities need to be involved, they should be! Anything less could smack of a cover-up.

When a house burns down it can often be rebuilt. (Yep, I switched metaphors.)

PB

3abn though is a private company.... yes it receives donations, but people cannot tell the owner of a company how to run his business.... that is why some of what people want to happen with 3abn is unrealistic.... if they have broken laws, then eventually the justice system will deal with them, if not, as long as someone is willing to donate, he can operate it as he sees fit....

That's what I'm talkin' about!

again the question must be asked, if 3abn is such a mess, why do you all continue to watch it?

As for myself, because so many of the programs are terrific.

[Jewel50]

I looked on the Amazing Facts site and “searched” for “Fallen Heroes” and found none.
I then went to “Best” “Archives” and found “free books in text” that are also for one to “Listen” to.

Because I didn’t hear the one you spoke of yesterday I don’t know how to determine ”success” for my search.

These two are on the subject of “Falling From Grace” parts 1 & 2..

http://www.amazingfacts.org/items/Read_Media.asp?ID=1219

http://www.amazingfacts.org/items/Read_Media.asp?ID=1221
I hope this helps for the time being.

This sermon is not uploaded as of yet. Yesterday was Sabbath when they taped the sermon and today is Sunday so I would image no one is back at work until Monday. This is why I mentioned that I would image it would be uploaded soon. I would think no one is back to work at Amazing Facts until Monday and it may take them a few days to get it cleaned up and whatever they do before they upload it. You can keep checking the link and if I remember I will to and then post when it is uploaded.

I was wondering if anyone else had seen the sermon.

[Skyhook]

To expand the medical metaphor, in years past before the advent of Penicillin etc. when someone had a serious contagious disease that was a threat to others (such as TB) they were separated from those they could harm and sent voluntarily to a sanitarium. If they refused voluntary treatment, they were sent involuntarily to a locked treatment facility.
It doesn't appear that any voluntary intervention will be accepted in this situation.