Money, Money, Money, Danny's 3ABN Salary Options

[sister]

For the last few years Danny has made and continues to make the following statement, "I receive the same salary as a pastor."

Well, lets do some research on this subject. All of the following figures come from copies of IRS records that can be found on the internet for non-profit organizations.

In 2003 Danny received a salary of $53,695.00, not including perks.

In 2004 Danny received a salary of $59,294.00, not including perks.

In 2005 Danny's salary jumped to $70,944.00, not including perks. That is quite a substantial leap. At the time he was still stating that he receives the same salary as a pastor. I am sure we have pastors on BSDA who could confirm the facts about salary levels. What is the base salary for an SDA pastor?

Now taking into consideration Danny's salary history of 2003-2005, I wonder what he is paying himself in 2006 and which pastor's salary he is comparing his salary with at this time? Of course most pastors do not have company supplied private jets at their disposal...

Now I do not question the right of Danny to choose to give himself any salary he desires, but the facts do not correspond with his statement. I believe that could be considered an example of purposeful deceit or what some folks call a bold faced lie. If this is indeed purposeful deceit, than in what other areas is Danny willing to "bend" the truth to serve his own purposes?

Taking into consideration the president of the Illinois Conference is on the 3ABN board, I am sure that he could supply Danny with the facts concerning the current salary of a pastor. Or perhaps I am wrong? Are SDA pastor's receiving a base salary of $70,944.00 and raising each succeeding year?

Just a small point to chew on while waiting for PrincessDrRe to share some fried meaty bits...

[sister]

The next highest paid salary at 3ABN is for Larry Ewing. His name is probably new for most of you, he is the head of the accounting department for 3ABN and is also a member of the board. His wife is also a paid employee of 3ABN.

In 2004 Larry Ewing's salary was $60,729.00

In 2005 Larry Ewing's salary was $68,365.00

I wonder what his salary is for 2006?

[sister]

What about Mollie Steenson? Her husband Hal also works in the pastoral department of 3ABN.

Her salary for 2004 was $44,166.00 for secretarial work.

In 2005, after Linda was removed from 3ABN, Mollie received a substantial raise with a salary of $56,729.00

I wonder what she is getting paid in 2006?

[tall73]

I don't know what Danny made, or what he claimed.

But I can speak to the pastoral issue, being a pastor.

Some of the pay is actually mileage, which is reimbursing an expense.

At the upper end it can cost up to 60 k to keep a pastor in the field--that is the cost to the organization. It would include things like mileage, health insurance, retirement, help with tuition at schools, continuing education etc.

Those are just the figures we heard at one of our constituency sessions. There was no breakdown of the numbers.

If you count just salary (since this was comparing without perks) and take out the mileage, it is around 45-46 k gross salary or so looking at my pay statement.

It is also interesting that pastors are considered to be self employed by the IRS, even though in the case of Adventist pastors we are not really. So we pay both sides of the Social Security tax as well. So that takes out an additional 7.65 percent or so.

There is also adjustment to the base for cost of living in some areas, etc.

As to raising every year, the GC does vote cost of living raises around once a year. However, not all conferences have the money on hand to actually give the raise. So you may or may not get a regular raise, but usually there is a small percentage every year.



This post has been edited by tall73: Oct 19 2006, 12:12 PM

[Clay]

I don't begrudge anyone their money... and I am surprised at how low that figure is for Danny and others.... had you listed 6 figures for Danny then maybe, but they aren't making a whole lot..... as Tall pointed out when you include taxes or whatever its not as much as you think.....

The perks are a different issue..... but again, its his business to run as he wishes.... if people don't like it then they need to speak with their actions....

This post has been edited by Clay: Oct 20 2006, 01:32 AM

[simplysaved]

I agree here. People SHOULD get paid well in the ministry....I like the way Joyce Meyers put it when she began her ministry. She told God and then her employees that they would be paid salaries comparable to what they would make in Corporate America.

If you are Abraham's Seed because of accepting Christ, you may not be called to be a millionaire, but you certainly do not have to be "broke" either.

[watchbird]

I agree here. People SHOULD get paid well in the ministry....I like the way Joyce Meyers put it when she began her ministry. She told God and then her employees that they would be paid salaries comparable to what they would make in Corporate America.

If you are Abraham's Seed because of accepting Christ, you may not be called to be a millionaire, but you certainly do not have to be "broke" either.

Perhaps the real question is not how 3abn executives' salaries compares to SDA ministers' salaries.... but how do the salaries of the rank and file workers at 3abn compare with those of the top executives.

[seeshell]

Yes, if the employees are expected to work for "sacrificial" salaries, it would seem only fair that the top brass participate as well or else raise the employees' wages. $50,000 - $70,000 may not be extremely high, but it's not exactly "sacrificial" either. It's considerably more than my husband and I make.

I would be interested to know what the going wage is for a 3ABN employee not in the top echelons.

At the same time, I agree...if I were an employee unable to make it on 3ABN wages, I would be looking for other employment and let my feet do the talking!

[simplysaved]

Believe it or not....the SDA Presidents of the LOCAL CONFERENCES make a SIGNIFICANTLY higher salary than the local pastor at your church.

The bigger issue is what do the employees AGREE to work for....if their paycheck says something different, then that is something to be about ready to (in the Spirit of course ) about.

Perhaps the real question is not how 3abn executives' salaries compares to SDA ministers' salaries.... but how do the salaries of the rank and file workers at 3abn compare with those of the top executives.

This post has been edited by simplysaved: Oct 19 2006, 04:17 PM

[calvin]

Perhaps the real question is not how 3abn executives' salaries compares to SDA ministers' salaries.... but how do the salaries of the rank and file workers at 3abn compare with those of the top executives.

I am chairperson of a nonprofit organization and serve on the Compensation Committee. We are members of the National Council of Nonprofit Associations. http://www.ncna.org/

We use the NCNA annual compensation survey results as a guide to ensure we are in line with the market. Below is from the 2006 Nonprofit Organizations Compensations Survey for the Midwest (Nebraska, Iowa, MN), for Executive Directors/ President / Chief Executive Officer

Category - Number of Employees:
51 to 160
Avg. Salary 112,499, Low Salary 68,681, Median Salary 110,000, High Salary 165,880

Category - 2007 Estimated Budget in Dollars
6,000,000 and greater
avg. Salary 113,583, Low Salary 65,000, Median Salary 105,000, High Salary 165,880

So Danny's salary is low, underpaid according to his peers but then most Nonprofit CEO's don't fly around in private jets either.

[tall73]

Believe it or not....the SDA Presidents of the LOCAL CONFERENCES make a SIGNIFICANTLY higher salary than the local pastor at your church.

The bigger issue is what do the employees AGREE to work for....if their paycheck says something different, then that is something to be about ready to (in the Spirit of course ) about.

I know that their mileage is handled differently and there is a small raise, but I am wondering if you have some numbers on that. I don't recall it being that much higher.

[princessdi]

Yeah, I have been watching this one. I ain't mad at all about Danny's salary. Whatever we think of his methods, he built the ministry from ground up. He talks about his salary because as Adventist, we really want our pastors and leaders to " receive their blessing in heaven" so to speak. So to say that he takes a meager salary, was inessence tickling our ears, it was pleasing. Fact is, he can and deserves a much higher salary. Even though he does it with little or intergrity, it takes a lot to build a ministry, and it is a more than fulltime position.

Yes, I was talking to an former conference President not long ago about this. I think it is a little higher, and they get a few more perks, but it is not that much higher. In a familed attempt to discourage those who are called from those who just came, we have " msodest" salaries.

I know that their mileage is handled differently and there is a small raise, but I am wondering if you have some numbers on that. I don't recall it being that much higher.

[sister]

Perhaps the real question is not how 3abn executives' salaries compares to SDA ministers' salaries.... but how do the salaries of the rank and file workers at 3abn compare with those of the top executives.

Good question. Many of the 3ABN employees receive minimum wages or just slightly more. Danny also stated that he is disappointed that more of these employees do not donate more financially to 3ABN. If you compare the sacrificial salaries of the rank and file, to the privilaged few, it takes on a different perspective.

[watchbird]

Good question. Many of the 3ABN employees receive minimum wages or just slightly more. Danny also stated that he is disappointed that more of these employees do not donate more financially to 3ABN. If you compare the sacrificial salaries of the rank and file, to the privilaged few, it takes on a different perspective.

Do you have any figures in what "minimum wages" translates into in terms of the amount of their gross paychecks? I'm not even sure what minimum wage currently is, but I am sure it would be stated in amount per hour. Do employees actually punch a time clock? Or do they receive a stated amount per week or per month? And if the latter, about how many hours are they expected work per week?

[caribbean sda]

The 3ABN Phoenix has arisen from the proverbial ashes... I now return you to your regularly scheduled program