 It's Bigger Than 3abn |
  |
 Oct 20 2006, 12:13 AM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Advanced Member  Group: Members Posts: 222 Joined: 4-August 06 From: Eckville, Alberta Canada Member No.: 2,002 Gender: m  |
I observed something interesting among the Campa Indians of Peru. If you heard a whoop of laughter, it was not because someone told a good (or naughty) joke; It meant that someone had gotten hurt. Laughter was their way of lessening the tension. And here on BSDA we joke. Some people feel that it is inappropriate, but I wonder if we don't do it for the same reason. We are discussing serious stuff here. And it's bigger than 3abn.
It is said that we can gauge the ethics of a society by how it treats the weakest among them. How do we measure up both individually and collectively? Although much focus has been on Linda and her daughter, they may represent issues that are cancers of not only 3abn, but of our church and maybe our countries. Our denomination may be caught in the dilemma between competing sorrows. On one hand, I have it hard to believe that our evangelists and church administrators would sit idly by if they were aware that the allegations that have been mentioned on BSDA would stand up in court of law. On the other hand they have to face the fact that 3abn is the face of Adventism to so many people throughout the world. If GC were to intervene and bring 3abn down, it could fracture the church with 3abn supporters throughout the world feeling that GC was being high handed. Will this crisis have to play itself out until the hearts of all men are revealed? If the leaders and board of 3abn were to step aside now, it could save a lot of problems down the road. There is a time when it is wise for leaders to let others take their place in the front lines. |
 |
 
|
|
Oct 20 2006, 09:06 PM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 389 Joined: 13-August 06 Member No.: 2,078 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Ralph @ Oct 20 2006, 01:13 AM) [snapback]157531[/snapback] If the leaders and board of 3abn were to step aside now, it could save a lot of problems down the road. There is a time when it is wise for leaders to let others take their place in the front lines. Spoken like a person that is NOT in leadership. I agree with you, Ralph, that would be the ideal, but noone at 3ABN is going to step down. -------------------- "The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple."
Oscar Wilde |
|
|
|
|
Oct 21 2006, 09:41 AM
Post
#3
|
|
 1,000 + posts  Group: Members Posts: 1,521 Joined: 17-October 04 From: Iceland, formerly Denmark, Norway, USA, Sierra Leone, Nigeria, Faeroe Islands. Bound for Heaven. Member No.: 686 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Ralph @ Oct 20 2006, 08:13 AM) [snapback]157531[/snapback] There is a time when it is wise for leaders to let others take their place in the front lines. What would the pioneer do? A General Conference President stepped down when his unmarried daughter got pregnant. This post has been edited by Johann: Oct 21 2006, 05:21 PM -------------------- "Any fact that needs to be disclosed should be put out now or as quickly as possible, because otherwise the bleeding will not end." (Attributed to Henry Kissinger) "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it" (Martin Luther King)  "The truth can lose nothing by close investigation". (1888 Materials 38) |
|
|
|
|
Oct 23 2006, 10:34 AM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 274 Joined: 4-April 06 Member No.: 1,655 Gender: f |
QUOTE(Johann @ Oct 21 2006, 09:41 AM) [snapback]157671[/snapback] What would the pioneer do? A General Conference President stepped down when his unmarried daughter got pregnant. |
|
|
|
|
Oct 23 2006, 11:27 AM
Post
#5
|
|
 5,000 + posts  Group: Administrator Posts: 19,829 Joined: 20-July 03 From: Alabama Member No.: 4 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Johann @ Oct 21 2006, 10:41 AM) [snapback]157671[/snapback] What would the pioneer do? A General Conference President stepped down when his unmarried daughter got pregnant. why would he do that? That was his daughter's decision not his? Its not like he could control her 24/7 and prevent her from doing what she wanted to do..... oh wait, maybe he THOUGHT he should be able to do that..... either way, that was no reason to resign in my opinion..... -------------------- "you are as sick as your secrets...." -quote from Celebrity Rehab-
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 23 2006, 02:11 PM
Post
#6
|
|
 Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 178 Joined: 29-July 06 Member No.: 1,957 Gender: f |
The Bible says in 1 Tim. 3:1-4 what is required of an Elder or leader in our church. Verse four says "One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity." That GC President absolutely did the right thing, though it could not have been easy. What dishonor his daughter brought to the whole family by her actions. This GC President recognized his failure and acted promptly. He is to be commended.
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 23 2006, 02:39 PM
Post
#7
|
|
|
5,000 + posts Group: Administrator Posts: 19,829 Joined: 20-July 03 From: Alabama Member No.: 4 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Lee @ Oct 23 2006, 03:11 PM) [snapback]157814[/snapback] The Bible says in 1 Tim. 3:1-4 what is required of an Elder or leader in our church. Verse four says "One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity." That GC President absolutely did the right thing, though it could not have been easy. What dishonor his daughter brought to the whole family by her actions. This GC President recognized his failure and acted promptly. He is to be commended. I think not... if the unmarried daughter was grown it was not the right thing to do... dishonor on the family? please.... she may have embarrassed herself, but her choice is not a reflection on her parents... according to that logic then Lucifer has brought dishonor to God and God therefore should step down from being the sovereign ruler of the universe..... Bad choices by the children are NOT a failure of the parents.... were that the case the greatest parent of all, is the greatest failure of all...... He should have stayed.... This post has been edited by Clay: Oct 23 2006, 02:46 PM -------------------- "you are as sick as your secrets...." -quote from Celebrity Rehab-
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 23 2006, 02:49 PM
Post
#8
|
|
 5,000 + posts Group: Administrator Posts: 11,143 Joined: 21-July 03 From: Northern California Member No.: 47 Gender: f |
Go on and preach, Steve! We make bad decicions all the time, but it is no reflection on the character of God. We can on teach our children, they still have all their own decisions to make. He should have stayed. Not only did that girl have to live with oher own bad choice, but then the whole of the family honor was thrust up on her. So she got to be guilty for her father losing his job, too. We are not saved by families, either.
QUOTE(Clay @ Oct 23 2006, 12:39 PM) [snapback]157816[/snapback] I think not... if the unmarried daughter was grown it was not the right thing to do... dishonor on the family? please.... she may have embarrassed herself, but her choice is not a reflection on her parents... according to that logic then Lucifer has brought dishonor to God and God therefore should step down from being the sovereign ruler of the universe..... Bad choices by the children are NOT a failure of the parents.... were that the case the greatest parent of all, is a failure...... He should have stayed.... -------------------- TTFN
Di And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose---Romans 8:28 A great many people believe they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.-- William James It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.- Mark Twain |
|
|
|
|
Oct 23 2006, 02:54 PM
Post
#9
|
|
 1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 2,002 Joined: 18-July 06 From: Sweden Member No.: 1,902 Gender: m |
Dishonour the family? Sounds like muslim family honour, except that the muslim might have keept the job and killed the daughter. Same foundation of "dishonour" though.
-------------------- Christ crucified for our sins, Christ risen from the dead, Christ ascended on high, is the science of salvation that we are to learn and to teach. {8T 287.2}
Most Noble and Honourable Thomas the Abstemious of Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch "I have said it before and I repeat it now: If someone could prove to me that apartheid is compatible with the Bible or christian faith, I would burn my bible and stop being a christian" Desmond Tutu |
|
|
|
|
Oct 23 2006, 02:58 PM
Post
#10
|
|
|
5,000 + posts Group: Administrator Posts: 19,829 Joined: 20-July 03 From: Alabama Member No.: 4 Gender: m |
QUOTE(västergötland @ Oct 23 2006, 03:54 PM) [snapback]157818[/snapback] Dishonour the family? Sounds like muslim family honour, except that the muslim might have keept the job and killed the daughter. Same foundation of "dishonour" though. true Thomas.... it would have been a "honor" killing, i.e. the daughter has dishonored the family so she must die..... -------------------- "you are as sick as your secrets...." -quote from Celebrity Rehab-
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 23 2006, 03:22 PM
Post
#11
|
|
 1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 1,398 Joined: 10-April 06 From: The Hill Country Member No.: 1,679 Gender: f |
But maybe the father knew in his heart that his daughter's mistake was due to a lack in his parenting.
-------------------- Shelley
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." Mark Twain "It is not my first object in life to make people like me." Elizabeth Prentiss "Níor dhún Dia doras riamh nar oscail Sé ceann eile." |
|
|
|
|
Oct 23 2006, 04:04 PM
Post
#12
|
|
 1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 2,756 Joined: 10-September 06 Member No.: 2,231 Gender: m |
My guess is that in that day and age the pregnancy of the daughter would have been a terrible distraction, so much so that position of the presidency would have suffered.
Richard |
|
|
|
 Oct 23 2006, 07:26 PM
Post
#13
|
|
|
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 3-October 03 From: Ohio Member No.: 179 |
[font=Arial Black][size=4]
QUOTE(Clay @ Oct 23 2006, 02:39 PM) [snapback]157816[/snapback] I think not... if the unmarried daughter was grown it was not the right thing to do... dishonor on the family? please.... she may have embarrassed herself, but her choice is not a reflection on her parents... according to that logic then Lucifer has brought dishonor to God and God therefore should step down from being the sovereign ruler of the universe..... Bad choices by the children are NOT a failure of the parents.... were that the case the greatest parent of all, is the greatest failure of all...... He should have stayed.... -------------------- "Love not the world ,neither the things that are in the world ,if any man love the world,the love of the father is not in him." 1John 2:15 Brew |
|
|
|
|
Oct 23 2006, 07:56 PM
Post
#14
|
|
|
Welcome Newbie Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 15-September 06 Member No.: 2,252 Gender: f |
HA!!! What if the daughter was a son? The passage quoted presumes that the children are the property of the elder. It becomes a woman's issue.
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 23 2006, 08:04 PM
Post
#15
|
|
 Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 77 Joined: 23-August 06 Member No.: 2,160 Gender: f |
QUOTE(Richard Sherwin @ Oct 23 2006, 02:04 PM) [snapback]157827[/snapback] My guess is that in that day and age the pregnancy of the daughter would have been a terrible distraction, so much so that position of the presidency would have suffered. Richard Having grown up under the rules that govern the heiarchy of the church I believe today the president would not have resigned. Thirty years ago a pregnancy by an unwed daughter could have cost the president his job if he hadn't resigned. I cannot tell you the pressure that our church exerted on pastors and the leaders of the church. We were to be examples for the rest of the church members. When I was in the academy, on a weekend leave I went to a movie with some of my friends. (A drive-in no less). The first movie I ever attended. I was told that I could be expelled from school for doing this.(I wasn't) but I could have because of who my father was. It made no sense to me because they would show movies at the academy and that was ok, just not in a theater. My father's job could also have been in jeopardy. This was a heavy burden for a teenager to carry. For you youngins this is very hard to comprehend. Today even the pastors attend movies and think nothing of it. It wasn't always so!!! I would say the bigger issue here is why was that kind of pressure put on the employees of the church back then? I personally feel that if things had been different back then a lot more of the church employee's children would still be in the church. |
|
|
|
|
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
| Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 23rd March 2008 - 01:26 PM |
