Hal Steenson And John Lomacang, Power Options

[Clay]

will someone be kind enough to share what Lomacang preached.... how can we explore what we do not know.....

[caribbean sda]

will someone be kind enough to share what Lomacang preached.... how can we explore what we do not know.....

You're so right.

[princessdi]

OK, so 3ABN goes down(as Adventist see it) in "penecostal" flames, and becomes a rival for TBN. Does this not accomplish the objective and remove 3ABN as the foremost broadcaster of Adventist programming? After while, if indeed, they are changing their doctrinal beliefs, they will naturally go with programming which shares that belief, and no longer broadcast those diametrically opposed. Or they will continue to sell time to Adventist programs, but change their own public declaration of doctrine. At which point I bleive the Adventist programs will leave on their own(as we are extremely fearful of "penecostoal" declarations of any kind). Either way, Danny is no longer the "face of Advnetism" anywhere. Voila!! Mission accomplished!

[Richard Sherwin]

I'm just wondering at what point 3abn starts to slowly split with the church and become a de facto separate denomination, and how many people will follow them instead of the official SDA church?

Richard

[princessdi]

Isn't part of our own doctrine about a "shaking time" and being able to stand? Everyone has to make that decision for themselves, right? All we have to do is to make our own "calling and election sure", right?

I'm just wondering at what point 3abn starts to slowly split with the church and become a de facto separate denomination, and how many people will follow them instead of the official SDA church?

Richard

[watchbird]

I'm just wondering at what point 3abn starts to slowly split with the church and become a de facto separate denomination, and how many people will follow them instead of the official SDA church?

Richard

You have, IMO, good thoughts and good questions. I think, however, that a change of tense in the verbs might give a more profitable area for searching out the answers to your questions.

[PeacefulBe]

will someone be kind enough to share what Lomacang preached.... how can we explore what we do not know.....

Apparently we are still being asked to explore unknown territory and the prophetic speculations of where this unknown territory is threatening to lead folks.

Sister's post sharing a woman's personal experience with Hal and also Shelly Quinn's workbook was interesting but was, after all, her personal experience. We aren't familiar enough with this unidentified woman to be able to securely take her word as a basis for drawing conclusions. Now, if WatchBird, Calvin, Panama_Pete, or a host of other BSDA regulars were relaying these experiences they would hold more weight with me. I believe I will look into getting Quinn's workbook so I can check the "rhema" idea out for myself.

IMM's post about Jay Gallimore was a little closer to what we need to hear to become educated in the area but still doesn't show John Lomacang's theology.

[Clay]

before I will go out on a limb and say that Lomacang was off-base I need to know what Lomacang said... secondly, do all adventist theologians believe the same thing when it comes to the 7 trumpets... I bet they don't... so then what really are we dealing with?

[Richard Sherwin]

You have, IMO, good thoughts and good questions. I think, however, that a change of tense in the verbs might give a more profitable area for searching out the answers to your questions.

I know what you are saying Watchbird, however I'm still trying to give 3abn the benefit of the doubt and hoping that it's future, if at all, not that it's already happening.

Richard

[princessdi]

Yes, someone please at least give the Reader's Digest version of what he preaches about the seven trumpets please. Hard to make any determination if without a frame of reference.

before I will go out on a limb and say that Lomacang was off-base I need to know what Lomacang said... secondly, do all adventist theologians believe the same thing when it comes to the 7 trumpets... I bet they don't... so then what really are we dealing with?

[IMM]

Yes, someone please at least give the Reader's Digest version of what he preaches about the seven trumpets please. Hard to make any determination if without a frame of reference.

[I will state again that this is second-hand information, I have not heard Lomacang's sermon, nor Gallimore's, just several first-person reports from some who have heard it.]

I just called my mother who happened to be visiting the SDA church in MI when Gallimore preached his 7 trumpets sermon and went point-by-point through the errors of what Lomacang preached. She has the powerpoint presentation and the tapes Gallimore has made so that she could carefully research it herslf also. She is emailing me the PP presentation and will mail the tapes tomorrow.

In a nutshell, she said the accepted SDA version going back to Josiah Litch (pre-SDA) and AT Jones is that the 7 trumpets represent various time periods in history, culminating with the 7th trumpet which is the Second Coming of Jesus. Lomacang apparently rejects those views and has decided that new light shows him the trumpets still point to the future and a series of cataclysmic events that will soon take place including tsunamis, fire, earthquakes, etc., of an enormous magnitude, some including definite timelines, and that none of the trumpets' time periods has already occurred.

The second-hand stories I have heard regarding this are not clear, concise Bible-based explanations, but very grandiose Star Wars type scare tactic scenarios. Obviosuly one must realize when hearing things second- and third-hand that stories change, and the truth usually lies in the middle. However, these views are at the very least an obvious divergence from traditional SDA thinking, and thus the issue Hal Steenson and many others have had with Lomacang's new-found interpretation.

This post has been edited by IMM: Dec 4 2006, 07:26 PM

[howdy]

[I will state again that this is second-hand information, I have not heard Lomacang's sermon, nor Gallimore's, just several first-person reports from some who have heard it.]

I just called my mother who happened to be visiting the SDA church in MI when Gallimore preached his 7 trumpets sermon and went point-by-point through the errors of what Lomacang preached. She has the powerpoint presentation and the tapes Gallimore has made so that she could carefully research it herslf also. She is emailing me the PP presentation and will mail the tapes tomorrow.

In a nutshell, she said the accepted SDA version going back to Josiah Litch (pre-SDA) and AT Jones is that the 7 trumpets represent various time periods in history, culminating with the 7th trumpet which is the Second Coming of Jesus. Lomacang apparently rejects those views and has decided that new light shows him the trumpets still point to the future and a series of cataclysmic events that will soon take place including tsunamis, fire, earthquakes, etc., of an enormous magnitude, some including definite timelines, and that none of the trumpets' time periods has already occurred.

The second-hand stories I have heard regarding this are not clear, concise Bible-based explanations, but very grandiose Star Wars type scare tactic scenarios. Obviosuly one must realize when hearing things second- and third-hand that stories change, and the truth usually lies in the middle. However, these views are at the very least an obvious divergence from traditional SDA thinking, and thus the issue Hal Steenson and many others have had with Lomacang's new-found interpretation.

Interesting! The traditional "interpretation" of the trumpets is in my opinion rather strange. Maybe it is time to take a new look. From the little information that has been given here it is for sure that the idea of future fulfillment of the trumpets is not new. I have heard people talk of this for many years and I see the idea as reasonable since there are some similarities between the "trumpets" and the plagues. How about a new thread to study these things?

howdy

[princessdi]

Thanks, IMM for trying. It is quite a bit clearer to me now. I would also still like to hear form someone who has heard the sermon, or maybe even both sermons, or even familiar with the church's teachingsand where Lomacang differs.

[I will state again that this is second-hand information, I have not heard Lomacang's sermon, nor Gallimore's, just several first-person reports from some who have heard it.]

I just called my mother who happened to be visiting the SDA church in MI when Gallimore preached his 7 trumpets sermon and went point-by-point through the errors of what Lomacang preached. She has the powerpoint presentation and the tapes Gallimore has made so that she could carefully research it herslf also. She is emailing me the PP presentation and will mail the tapes tomorrow.

In a nutshell, she said the accepted SDA version going back to Josiah Litch (pre-SDA) and AT Jones is that the 7 trumpets represent various time periods in history, culminating with the 7th trumpet which is the Second Coming of Jesus. Lomacang apparently rejects those views and has decided that new light shows him the trumpets still point to the future and a series of cataclysmic events that will soon take place including tsunamis, fire, earthquakes, etc., of an enormous magnitude, some including definite timelines, and that none of the trumpets' time periods has already occurred.

The second-hand stories I have heard regarding this are not clear, concise Bible-based explanations, but very grandiose Star Wars type scare tactic scenarios. Obviosuly one must realize when hearing things second- and third-hand that stories change, and the truth usually lies in the middle. However, these views are at the very least an obvious divergence from traditional SDA thinking, and thus the issue Hal Steenson and many others have had with Lomacang's new-found interpretation.

[roxe]

Sister's post sharing a woman's personal experience with Hal and also Shelly Quinn's workbook was interesting but was, after all, her personal experience. We aren't familiar enough with this unidentified woman to be able to securely take her word as a basis for drawing conclusions. Now, if WatchBird, Calvin, Panama_Pete, or a host of other BSDA regulars were relaying these experiences they would hold more weight with me. I believe I will look into getting Quinn's workbook so I can check the "rhema" idea out for myself.

hello all,
i'm the lady who sister quoted from at maritime; and it is OK with me that she shared it with you.

my experience was not with hal, but with jd quinn.

of course, you don't know me well enough to put ANY weight on what i said; it is after all, my own experience. but having these experiences, i was NOT shocked when i came here and read your threads on this topic. saddened yes, but not shocked. i had had too much uncomfortable "women's intuition" going on since first viewing 3abn and my limited dealings with the prayer team.

please, if you do get shelley's workbook, be very careful with it... it sounds so GOOD. i got sucked into its teaching for awhile; but then put it aside for some reason. when i read at maritime about what rhema really is, and why their "prayers" using it are made like demands and not "Thy will be done", i understood why i had been uncomfortable about reading and using it in the limited way i had.

after posting at maritime, i got the book out of my library and proceeded to tear it to little pieces and throw it away... and i've noticed that my home now has a much different and lighter atmosphere to it.

but... again, this is just my experience with 3abn, and jd and shelley quinn.


"oh God, spare thy people."

roxe

[watchbird]

In a nutshell, she said the accepted SDA version going back to Josiah Litch (pre-SDA) and AT Jones is that the 7 trumpets represent various time periods in history, culminating with the 7th trumpet which is the Second Coming of Jesus. Lomacang apparently rejects those views and has decided that new light shows him the trumpets still point to the future and a series of cataclysmic events that will soon take place including tsunamis, fire, earthquakes, etc., of an enormous magnitude, some including definite timelines, and that none of the trumpets' time periods has already occurred.

It has been a long time since the preferred SDA teaching on the trumpets went "back to Josiah Litch".... though there are those who still use that, I'm sure. I'm not sure of Gallimore's qualifications as a scholar, but if he is going back to Litch and Jones, then he is certainly behind the times himself. That is NOT to say that I would agree with any futuristic version of the trumpets... especially if they are being used to predict specific "cataclysmic events"... and if they are being used that way because they are seen as being the same as the seven last plagues.

Interesting! The traditional "interpretation" of the trumpets is in my opinion rather strange. Maybe it is time to take a new look. From the little information that has been given here it is for sure that the idea of future fulfillment of the trumpets is not new. I have heard people talk of this for many years and I see the idea as reasonable since there are some similarities between the "trumpets" and the plagues. How about a new thread to study these things?

howdy

Yes there are similarities between the trumpets and the plagues. But there are also differences... the chief of which is that the trumpets come in the historical section of Revelation and the plagues come in the eschatological section... and also that the trumpets are given as warning and for the purpose of turning men's hearts to God, while the plagues are "poured out unmixed with mercy" which we have understood to mean that they are not poured out until after the close of probation.

The main difference between our interpretations in the 19th century and those that are developing now is that then we were mainly looking at physical literal interpretations/applications... while now we are primarily looking at them for their symbolic and spiritual applications. I'm not sure who really started the move in that direction, but certainly Ellen White, while never speaking against the literal applications of her day, did give a gentle nudge in the direction of spiritual applications when she talked about the spiritual blessings that would come from a deeper study of Revelation.

Probably the most prominent scholars in this area that we have at present are Jon Paulien, who just recently moved from being the Chair of the New Testament Department at the Seminary at Andrews to being the Dean of the School of Religion at Loma Linda University, and Ranko Stefanovic, Chair of the Department of Religion at Andrews, who just recently published a very readable Commentary on the book of Revelation, entitled, Revelation of Jesus Christ copyright 2002 by Andrews University Press, where it can be purchased on-line. Jon Paulien has a set of tapes on Revelation and is currently working in cooperation with Graeme Bradford to produce a new Revelation Seminar Series. Paulien's doctoral thesis was in Revelation with focus on the trumpets. Hans LaRondelle is also an authority in the area of end time prophecies, and his section on the trumpets compares different views and explains why he holds some and disagrees with others. His book that covers this is entitled How to Understand the End-Time Prophecies of the Bible unfortunately this book seems to be out of print so you would have to find it in someone's library. Perhaps he has replaced this with another title, but that I do not know about.

Thanks, IMM for trying. It is quite a bit clearer to me now. I would also still like to hear form someone who has heard the sermon, or maybe even both sermons, or even familiar with the church's teachingsand where Lomacang differs.

It would probably be more helpful to become familiar with the authors above before you try to sort out what Galimore and Lomacang are saying.