Hal Steenson And John Lomacang, Power Options

[roxe]

Exactly. And it is "dangerous" for a variety of reasons. The most dangerous, of course, being that it does involve commanding not only God, but Satan as well.... and that opens the way for spirit communications that come from Satan... even though the spirit may appear as an "angel of light".
<snip>
As I said.... it ain't a pretty picture.... and the more one sees of it the more repulsive it becomes.

hmmm.... no wonder JD Quinn seemed so excited on the phone with me about "being called into the deliverance ministry."

you know, it's so sad when you see people into this stuff. how in the world do you get their attention to try the spirits, when they have such strong feelings that this is from "God".

and this is exactly what satan wants them to think. he does a masterful job in "feelings convincing".

i know about those feelings myself... and as you say, it ain't a pretty picture. it is one of the most difficult things in the world to give those feelings to Jesus and mean it, cuz they are SO convincing, and such an ego trip.

no wonder Jesus said that if possible even the elect would be deceived.

i'll say it again... to me, this is the most heart-sickening aspect of all this entire mess at 3abn.... truly the roaring lion is seeking all he can devour.

"oh Father God, please please spare thy people."

roxe

[Clay]

Clay I was hoping that you would have read the entire thread from the time I begin posting that way you would have see that my subject was about this thread & the reasoning for all my words. It was me that suggested to Pickle to start another thread in post # 41. Is this what you call "baiting"? If this is the case, then I am guilty, get on with your punishment/punishing, but in the mean time since this thread is about John L. sermon vs. a pentacostal pastors views, maybe you should ask John to give you a private bible study the next time he is in your area. He can defend his position a lot better than Hal S.

Ed I read everything..... no punishment needed, you indicated that you didn't want to hijack the thread, so don't... start a new one and share your beliefs...

[PeacefulBe]

Ed, I see you've earlier claimed that this teaching is biblical and according to the SOP. Personally, I disagree, and I believe I have solid evidence to that effect.

I have not heard of any SDA ministers being told that. But if I were in a position where I would have opportunity to says such a thing, I would instead present the convincing evidence I have accumulated that supports what we have taught on this topic.

Part of the problem has been that we too often accept the positions of our pioneers without finding out why they taught what they did, and without seeking additional evidence in support of those positions. Another part of the problem is surface reading.

I have a relative who felt the trumpets were future, and we discussed it a bit. Unlike some, he still believed what Great Controversy says about Rev. 10 and 11. I therefore made two points:

• According to Rev. 10:7, six of the seven trumpets have already blown. Thus, if Rev. 10 refers to the Advent Awakening, those trumpets must have blown by 1844.
• According to Rev. 8:13; 9:12; and 11:14, the last three trumpets are called three woes, and Rev. 9:13-11:14 are all part of the timeframe of the sixth trumpet and second woe. Thus if Rev. 10-11:14 are past, the first six trumpets are past as well.

He thought awhile over both points and agreed that they were correct.

While your plate may be too full to get into a thorough discussion about the trumpets, will you please take a moment and expand on the section of your quote that I have highlighted?

Is what the Great Controversy says about Rev. 10 and 11 incorrect? Please reference the passage(s) you refer to so that I can study them as well.

[Pickle]

While your plate may be too full to get into a thorough discussion about the trumpets, will you please take a moment and expand on the section of your quote that I have highlighted?

Is what the Great Controversy says about Rev. 10 and 11 incorrect? Please reference the passage(s) you refer to so that I can study them as well.

No, it is not incorrect.

What I can find easily on Rev. 10 is instead in 2SM 107-108. For ch. 11 see GC ch. 15, which starts on p. 15.

[PeacefulBe]

No, it is not incorrect.

What I can find easily on Rev. 10 is instead in 2SM 107-108. For ch. 11 see GC ch. 15, which starts on p. 15.

Thank you for the clarification for I also still believe in the Great Controversy. I haven't studied much into the trumpets but I have read both of the selections you provided as well as a portion of your paper on them.

From what little I remember of Lomacang's series it seems to me that he was working with the premise that the trumpets' past fulfillment doesn't necessarily preclude them being future events as well. But since I really don't clearly remember much I'm not even sure about that. What I do remember is that his ideas were thought provoking but certainly not stinky. Obviously I need to study the trumpet subject more closely.

[Ed White]

Thank you for the clarification for I also still believe in the Great Controversy. I haven't studied much into the trumpets but I have read both of the selections you provided as well as a portion of your paper on them.

From what little I remember of Lomacang's series it seems to me that he was working with the premise that the trumpets' past fulfillment doesn't necessarily preclude them being future events as well. But since I really don't clearly remember much I'm not even sure about that. What I do remember is that his ideas were thought provoking but certainly not stinky. Obviously I need to study the trumpet subject more closely.

Peaceful you are on safe ground only as you hold God word in your hand & know for yourself about this subject that John Lomacang preached against established error. The link Pickle instructed you to click on will lead you astray sooner or later. He mentioned Revelation 11 as being in the past. But for your own information is this what the SOP teaches in this inspired quote? "read every verse of Revelation eleven, it is yet to take place..." Last Day Events 95. Look at Revelation eleven as John L. was doing in this light. First verse "And there was given unto me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein." Revelation 11:1. Remember the professed people of God are now being judged under the 6th seal, so the word "measure" in this verse has the same Biblical meaning as the word judge. Many examples could be given, but one should be enough. "Every case is coming in review before God; He is measuring the temple and the worshipers therein." 7 219 (1902).
Verse 2. "But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not..." Revelation 11:2 The court would be the wicked, those who never professed to serve God. Their judgment will take place during the 1000 years in heaven by the saints, Jesus is the judge during the 1000 years in heaven. God the Father is now the judge during the Investigative Judgment going on as we speak.
I believe that John was correct in saying the 7 trumpets are in the future as well as this chapter of Revelation eleven. Every verse is explainable this way [which I would be glad to do verse by verse to the end] once you start on the correct premise.

[PeacefulBe]

hello all,
i'm the lady who sister quoted from at maritime; and it is OK with me that she shared it with you.

my experience was not with hal, but with jd quinn.

of course, you don't know me well enough to put ANY weight on what i said; it is after all, my own experience. but having these experiences, i was NOT shocked when i came here and read your threads on this topic. saddened yes, but not shocked. i had had too much uncomfortable "women's intuition" going on since first viewing 3abn and my limited dealings with the prayer team.

Welcome to BSDA Roxe! Please don't be saddened or shocked by what you have read in the threads here. My post was merely to point out that since I don't "know" you from reading your thoughts in posts enough to get familiar with your credibility and thought process, there was no way I could take what you said with much weight. Now that you are here we will all start getting to know what Roxe is all about(as much as one can on a forum such as this anyway )

please, if you do get shelley's workbook, be very careful with it... it sounds so GOOD. i got sucked into its teaching for awhile; but then put it aside for some reason. when i read at maritime about what rhema really is, and why their "prayers" using it are made like demands and not "Thy will be done", i understood why i had been uncomfortable about reading and using it in the limited way i had.

I have been watching "Exalting His Word" (which I believe still bears the name of Linda Shelton in its credits) on 3abn over the last couple of years. It has been my experience that the point of the program is to immerse ones self into the Word of God as a hungry diner would dig into a banquet. I have never heard Shelly Quinn say to speak these words of scripture as "demands". She refers to them as affirmations. According to Wikipedia "An affirmation is a declaration that something is true." I know that some attribute this area to Theosophy where Wikipedia states that "Affirmation could be viewed positively as a mobilization of one's inner resources, or negatively as a kind of self-induced brainwashing". Until I receive the workbook and study her thoughts myself, I won't know if Shelly is promoting the in-depth study of the Word of God to strengthen ones spiritual experience or a clever method to brainwash ones self.

after posting at maritime, i got the book out of my library and proceeded to tear it to little pieces and throw it away... and i've noticed that my home now has a much different and lighter atmosphere to it.

but... again, this is just my experience with 3abn, and jd and shelley quinn.
"oh God, spare thy people."

roxe

This section of your post concerns me just a bit. Sounds just a little superstitious but I also know that most human beings use magical thinking to some degree.

[Pickle]

... The link Pickle instructed you to click on will lead you astray sooner or later. He mentioned Revelation 11 as being in the past. But for your own information is this what the SOP teaches in this inspired quote? "read every verse of Revelation eleven, it is yet to take place..." Last Day Events 95. ...

Quite interesting, Ed.

I've seen this kind of thing a number of times before. Folks quote the SOP to justify reinterpreting the prophecies, and then arrive at an interpretation that contradicts the SOP. Here you quote LDE 95 in order to justify saying that when GC puts certain verses of Rev. 11 in the past, GC is as wrong as I am.

Why not have it the other way around? Why not use GC ch. 15 to prove that LDE 95 is wrong rather than use LDE 95 to prove that GC ch. 15 is wrong?

Another real problem is when people take someone's word that LDE 95 really reads that way, for it most certainly does not. And thus this supposed contradiction is actually non-existent.

Herein lies the danger of having such views taught on 3ABN, as well as the problem of having someone at 3ABN who sends out emails that slice those individuals to bits who are teaching such things. Those who teach such views often have not thought through carefully either the basis for their views, or the logical conclusions of those views.

And thus seeds are planted in people's unsuspecting minds which can down the road bear the fruit of total rejection of the SOP, as well as the rejection of some very important teachings of our faith.

[Ed White]

Quite interesting, Ed.

I've seen this kind of thing a number of times before. Folks quote the SOP to justify reinterpreting the prophecies, and then arrive at an interpretation that contradicts the SOP. Here you quote LDE 95 in order to justify saying that when GC puts certain verses of Rev. 11 in the past, GC is as wrong as I am.

Why not have it the other way around? Why not use GC ch. 15 to prove that LDE 95 is wrong rather than use LDE 95 to prove that GC ch. 15 is wrong?

Another real problem is when people take someone's word that LDE 95 really reads that way, for it most certainly does not. And thus this supposed contradiction is actually non-existent.

Herein lies the danger of having such views taught on 3ABN, as well as the problem of having someone at 3ABN who sends out emails that slice those individuals to bits who are teaching such things. Those who teach such views often have not thought through carefully either the basis for their views, or the logical conclusions of those views.

And thus seeds are planted in people's unsuspecting minds which can down the road bear the fruit of total rejection of the SOP, as well as the rejection of some very important teachings of our faith.

Pickle I will be glad to answer all your questions you can muster up from any of the old or new Adventist authors studies/sermons/books in the thread Clay has provided in the Theology section on "The 7 Trumpets" but that which I have bolded above I should answer here but won't. Please ask again on the proper thread. I will state here for some that may not go to that link that I would never try and reinterpreting the prophecies so as to arrive at an interpretation that contradicts the SOP.
I leave the prophecies set in stone alone! As they can stand on their own without any propping up from any committee of mens suggestions that stepped off the platform of truth.

[Pickle]

Pickle ... I leave the prophecies set in stone alone! As they can stand on their own without any propping up from any committee of mens suggestions that stepped off the platform of truth.

Your insinuations are entirely inappropriate.

This post has been edited by Pickle: Dec 6 2006, 11:09 PM

[Ed White]

Your insinuations are entirely inappropriate.

Please explain yourself, I need more words than those few to know what you are even talking. about

[princessdi]

Gentlemen, take to PM, please.

[Ed White]

Roxe said these words concering Shelly Q. book. "after posting at maritime, i got the book out of my library and proceeded to tear it to little pieces and throw it away... and i've noticed that my home now has a much different and lighter atmosphere to it."
==============
I have hear over the years of SDA ministers going to church academies to hold a week of prayer meeting and end up before leaving by having a bon-fire where all the rock music tapes, CDs & other Satanic articles were torched, but this lady could not wait for a week of prayer meeting to come to her town, she did what she could to make her home a place for peaceful habitation again with a different and lighter atmosphere to it. I would never doubt a much needed testimony like that.

[Jon Davis]

I just signed on this forum.
But have been here before reading some threads during the Danny and Linda split.

After reading this thread I was interested in what John Lomacang had to say about the Trumpets.
I aslo belive them to be future.
I emailed 3ABN about them.
They said they were a Live Special and don't sell them.
If anyone gets a recording of these please let me know.

Thanks

Jon

[Ed White]

I just signed on this forum.
But have been here before reading some threads during the Danny and Linda split.

After reading this thread I was interested in what John Lomacang had to say about the Trumpets.
I aslo belive them to be future.
I emailed 3ABN about them.
They said they were a Live Special and don't sell them.
If anyone gets a recording of these please let me know.

Thanks

Jon

Jon I have a copy of this sermon of John L. on video, somewhere! I walked into the room after the program was on for 5 min. so clicked the record button immediately. Give me about 3 days to find it then PM me & I will make you a copy. Are you aware that the 7 trumpets are being considered in the thelogy section leaving this thread free to the discuss Hal Steenson & John L. being at odds with one another. Come join in and show those reading there what the bible says to you personally about the 7 trumpets being in the future. Are you a long time Adventist?