Unanswered Questions, For Aletheia and Bystander Options

[ex3ABNemployee]

I asked these questions and still haven't gotten answers. These questions WON'T go away until I do.

Aletheia: What did you mean by this question?

Also didn't you tell me Clem's brother had claimed he had "relationship" with Tommy, and was defending Tommy? How old did he claim he was at the time?

Bystander: What did you mean by this reponse to Aletheia's question?

I did the math, he would have been around 19 or 20. mmm that does put a whole different light on the subject if the subject be true at all.......

Bystander: What did you mean by this comment?

What I have found so far is that some of the members here will be shocked if and when the agenda's of some of the letter writers are exposed.

To refuse to provide these answers brings your credibility into serious doubt. We're waiting.......

Duane Clem

[Hawk]

Hi Duane, The credibility of folk who figure that its fine for a pastor to molest kids if they are teenagers, and who threaten to sue another church for trying to put a stop to child molestation and sexual abuse of the parishioners is already down the toilet. Danny lied on his first letter here, Eye Witness lied about an ASI meeting, 3ABN lied about kids names, Bystander lied about 3ABN lying about kids names, WWJD tried to blackmail Hershey into being quiet, and Alethia stands by molestation of kids as long as they are at least 17 or consenting. they are the true and accurate representation of 3ABN and the Shelton family. They will NEVER address actual issues. Blackmail, lying and hurting people. Thats what 3ABN and the Shelton family are all about and they have proved it right here.

The Catholic church had scandals and they settled with their victims. 3ABN has scandals and threatens to sue the people who try to deal with the issues, blackmails people who might know something and and says that the letter writers have some kind of agenda. 3ABN says all kinds of bad stuff about the Catholic church and then does even worse. News. News for the public.

This post has been edited by Hawk: Jan 30 2007, 02:08 AM

[Aletheia]

I asked these questions and still haven't gotten answers. These questions WON'T go away until I do.

Aletheia: What did you mean by this question?
QUOTE
Also didn't you tell me Clem's brother had claimed he had "relationship" with Tommy, and was defending Tommy? How old did he claim he was at the time?
uane Clem

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I was asking Bob to clarify, and say the same things on this board, which he had told me on the phone when he called me, and was telling me about things.. I then asked him what evidence he and Gailon actually had. He claimed that the above along with your negative testimony about Glen Dryden in support of Tommy, and your feelings about him, were the difficulty with getting you to come forward and make a public statement.


The reason I asked him the above: It sounded and was being presented differently when he posted about it here, I still don't understand that. Also, being that he also left out your age in his discussions here, the members here were all assuming you were much younger and it was evidence of child molestation, as he and Gailon have been claiming all along, and he wasn't bothering to correct them, or clarify. Nor did he do so when I asked...

(Yes, I did see you geve your age in your statement when that was posted. but that was after many of Bob's posts)

I believe that the accusation of child molestation is what observer was referring to, in his comment about the ages of the only ones who have come forward. As to his second comment, I don't know what was meant and will wait till that does or does not come out also.

Do you have any other questions?

~ Cindy

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Jan 30 2007, 05:00 AM

[Aletheia]

Hi Duane, The credibility of folk who figure that its fine for a pastor to molest kids if they are teenagers, and who threaten to sue another church for trying to put a stop to child molestation and sexual abuse of the parishioners is already down the toilet. Danny lied on his first letter here, Eye Witness lied about an ASI meeting, 3ABN lied about kids names, Bystander lied about 3ABN lying about kids names, WWJD tried to blackmail Hershey into being quiet, and Alethia stands by molestation of kids as long as they are at least 17 or consenting. they are the true and accurate representation of 3ABN and the Shelton family. They will NEVER address actual issues. Blackmail, lying and hurting people. Thats what 3ABN and the Shelton family are all about and they have proved it right here.

The Catholic church had scandals and they settled with their victims. 3ABN has scandals and threatens to sue the people who try to deal with the issues, blackmails people who might know something and and says that the letter writers have some kind of agenda. 3ABN says all kinds of bad stuff about the Catholic church and then does even worse. News. News for the public.

I DO NOT stand by molestation of kids. That is a LIE.

I stand for calling things by their right names, and proving all things. And I stand for the American way. Those who stand accused are innocent till proven guilty and have a right to face their accusers.

I also stand for going to the police when there is a criminal offense and pressing charges.

And I stand for following biblical principles in our Church when it comes to taking care of sin, error and any disputes. Those principles do NOT include talebearing or publishing things to those outside the Church.

If you don't like that? I guess that would be your problem.

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Jan 30 2007, 05:30 AM

[Seraphim7]

I DO NOT stand by molestation of kids. That is a LIE.

I stand for calling things by their right names, and proving all things. And I stand for the American way. Those who stand accused are innocent till proven guilty and have a right to face their accusers.

I also stand for going to the police when there is a criminal offense and pressing charges.

And I stand for following biblical principles in our Church when it comes to taking care of sin, error and any disputes. Those principles do NOT include talebearing or publishing things to those outside the Church.

If you don't like that? I guess that would be your problem.

Scuse you?

And I stand for the American way.

Are you suggesting that those who do not stand for what you do are somehow un"American"? Bear in mind, we have members here from all over the world.

If you have issues with publishing things to those outside the church, how do you expect any of the people who have been wronged by leaders or those in authority, within the church, to press charges, in order to receive justice?

If your principles include:

NOT publishing things to those outside of the church

please help us understand why are you are on BSDA, univited, presenting your "principles" in the manner you have, while telling others do as I say, not as I do? You can't have it both ways.

This post has been edited by seraph|m: Jan 30 2007, 05:54 AM

[Seraphim7]

Aletheia:

What I find disingenuous in the extreme is people, within our church, who have the nerve to say that "you are outside of Gods will if you take your brother before civil authorities". These individuals do not understand the word or the power of God. The issue of not taking ones brother before civil authority is about disputes between brothers/sisters regarding doctrinal points.

We have an obligation, within biblical principles, to protect the victims of crimes through the use of civil authority, when such is needed. Why? Because there are laws that govern our society which we, as citizens and believers, are obligated, before God, to adhere to. The church does not have the authority or the ability to arrest, try and/or convict members who have broken the laws by which we are governed, as Americans. So hiding behind “we are not supposed to take bro/sis so and so before the public or the courts” is foolishness. And folks wonder why there are those who think Adventism is cultish.

God allows whom He wills in civil authority, for the protection of the people. Just because many in such positions abuse that authority does not make our obligation to heed the laws of the land any less so.

This post has been edited by seraph|m: Jan 30 2007, 07:27 AM

[Aletheia]

Scuse you?


Are you suggesting that those who do not stand for what you do are somehow un"American"? Bear in mind, we have members here from all over the world.

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America was founded on Godly principles, I do not think anyone the world over who is Christian would despise our constiution or bill of rights...

some of whch are:
Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.


Amendment VII

In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.


Amendment VIII

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

If you have issues with publishing things to those outside the church, how do you expect any of the people who have been wronged by leaders or those in authority, within the church, to press charges, in order to receive justice?

If it's a matter of civil law and crimnal behavior, I expect them to go to their local police with their evidence, and file a report, so it can be investigated, or so they can press charges. Isn't that common sense?

Then the church can deal with it, as the bible says depending on whether it was a public or private sin.

please help us understand why are you are on BSDA, univited, presenting your "principles" in the manner you have, while telling others do as I say, not as I do? You can't have it both ways

I am here "uninvited" as you say, addressing what is written here, presenting God's principles not my own, And Public posts call for public replies on a public forum! I am not here publishing my brethren's sins or faults or errors here, rather then going to them one on one, and then proceeding as Christ said, to take it to the local Church and then up the conference level if not satisfied, or that doesn't work! There is a difference, and God's people know that, the scriptures are plain. so I am not trying to have it both ways as you claim.

I'm getting tired of all the questions, Why are you against what I posted, and quoted from the scriptures, the words of Christ and the Spirit of prophecy?

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Jan 30 2007, 08:47 AM

[PrincessDrRe]

Personally I have read your posts Aletheia - and regardless - REGARDLESS of your actions of trying to "explain" them away. You stated that the legal age of consent is 17.

What is the purpose of bringing up the "legal age of consent" but to try to prove that the "child" was/could legally consent to having sex with a man?

Nothing about the homosexuality of it.
Nothing about the man being a Pastor.

Just the "legal age of consent". Then when it was determined that the (now) man was NOT of legal age to consent - you still will not conceed.

That says volumes for what you will allow and not allow in your home/church/with your own children.

Why do I say your own children?

Because if you will bring up the "legal age of consent" for someone else in regards to their sexual molestation by a Pastor - you obviously will have to use the same criteria and boundaries when speaking of your own children in the same situation.

Therefore.....

If your son, was approached by a Pastor, and ended up being corerced into a sexual relationship/trist/one-night stand with this said Pastor, at the age of 17, you would have to state the same statement that you stated for others.....

"My child is of the 'legal age of consent' therefore I cannot do anything..."


This is actually a good thing to know....

Why?

If I ever find out your real name.... we could not be friends....

Why?

Because I couldn't trust you around MY children; being that I know your definition of "legal" and such....

[Denny]

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America was founded on Godly principles, I do not think anyone the world over who is Christian would despise our constiution or bill of rights...

America being founded on godly principles is debatable - all men being created equal as long as they were white and from the upper classes - So thats why all nations are rushing to follow the American way?...... or are they?....

I'm getting tired of all the questions, Why are you against what I posted, and quoted from the scriptures, the words of Christ and the Spirit of prophecy?

Why be tired of questions, this is a public forum after all or is this a forum for your public messages only? Just cos one quotes the bible or anything else does not make ones argument more relevant, even the devil quoted scripture.

[PrincessDrRe]

Why be tired of questions, this is a public forum after all or is this a forum for your public messages only? Just cos one quotes the bible or anything else does not make ones argument more relevant, even the devil quoted scripture.

....and knows it better than most SDA's in general.....

I agree. You can't give questions and comments and not expect them in return. Don't want questions and comments to your writings.....

Don't write 'em!

[Seraphim7]

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America was founded on Godly principles, I do not think anyone the world over who is Christian would despise our constiution or bill of rights...

The above is rhetorical minutia in the extreme...

If it's a matter of civil law and crimnal behavior, I expect them to go to their local police with their evidence, and file a report, so it can be investigated, or so they can press charges. Isn't that common sense?

"IF"

Then the church can deal with it, as the bible says depending on whether it was a public or private sin.

I am here "uninvited"... I am not trying to have it both ways...

Sorry, please let me rephrase, you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.

I'm getting tired of all the questions, Why are you against what I posted, and quoted from the scriptures, the words of Christ and the Spirit of prophecy?

You're getting tired of all the questions... you think your post equal scripture, the words of Christ, and SOP Apparently, somebody has overdoses on the 3ABN kool aid. You need to back that thang up girl...

Where is that Charlie Brown smiley when it's needed? blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah

This post has been edited by seraph|m: Jan 30 2007, 09:03 AM

[Clay]

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America was founded on Godly principles, I do not think anyone the world over who is Christian would despise our constiution or bill of rights...

some of whch are:
snip.....

I am here "uninvited" as you say, addressing what is written here, presenting God's principles not my own, And Public posts call for public replies on a public forum! I am not here publishing my brethren's sins or faults or errors here, rather then going to them one on one, and then proceeding as Christ said, to take it to the local Church and then up the conference level if not satisfied, or that doesn't work! There is a difference, and God's people know that, the scriptures are plain. so I am not trying to have it both ways as you claim.

I'm getting tired of all the questions, Why are you against what I posted, and quoted from the scriptures, the words of Christ and the Spirit of prophecy?

do you actually believe the foolishness you write? America was not founded on Godly principles.... while the founding fathers were penning "we believe that all men are created equal" some of them OWNED slaves.... so they were not talking about slaves, neither were they talking about women.... distraction by minutiae on your first point.....

Why do we question you? Because you quote the bible and egw out of context.... which means you are just plain wrong.... when you stop misquoting or taking things out of context then maybe we will stop calling you on this issue....

[PrincessDrRe]

I heard someone say it before....

"...tiresome - you are..." and it's truth too!

[PaperTigers]

If it's a matter of civil law and crimnal behavior, I expect them to go to their local police with their evidence, and file a report, so it can be investigated, or so they can press charges. Isn't that common sense?

but i thought we should keep it in the church?? doesn't this go against what you were saying?

[Observer]

Re: "If it's a matter of civil law and crimnal behavior, I expect them to go to their local police with their evidence, and file a report, so it can be investigated, or so they can press charges. Isn't that common sense?"

No. You have misstated it.

1) The police investigage criminal behavior, and violations of criminal law. They do not investigate issues of civil law.

2) Police develop the evidence. You and I do not develop the evidence.

3) Police do not decide whether or not to file charges. The District Attorney may do that. Or, it may be a Grand Jury. In any case the decision to file charges is not that of the police. The police than act on that formal filing of the charges to develop the evidence required to bring a person to trial.