Proofs, Or Lack Thereof, A concern of causing false assumptions Options

[princessdi]

Exactly!

ISTA. When my own beliefs are called into question, so to speak, my cheeks may pink up a bit and my knees may knock together at the prospect of tangibly supporting what I have declared but I don't melt under the pressure to any major degree. I also feel the benefit of realizing the need to examine why I believe something in the first place (thanks Clay for your ever present ability to do that) and I don't ever, EVER want to get smugly over-confident that my beliefs are beyond question or that I have it all figured out!

That being said, it still would be nice if, while we're tossing our big dog bones around, we would be big enough dogs not to maul the puppies as they begin to test life off of the porch. Of course, all bets are off if those puppies come in looking for a big dog fight.

[mozart]

debate vs discussion-

While the two terms have some shared attributes, the overwhelming differences between the two is also very evident. I prefer to think of this place as a venue for earnest consideration of a subject, a place of discussion. Debate just smacks of winners and losers and arguments and contention, something that we saw plenty of before a group of folks were recently banned.

So perhaps Clay, Di or Calvin could weigh in on what BlackSDA.com is actually considered to be. If the administrative position is that this is a place that accomodates both discussion and debate, perhaps Calvin could provide the more sensitive among us with a smiley or sign that says "Discussion only please. I'm still too tender for debate" or "I'm still a puppy - Not quite ready to eat with the big dogs".

Or be eaten by the big dogs lol

quite lovely PB

Janna, I am recieving PMs from people whom I respect here in BSDA who tell me that they did not see your post in the same manner as I saw it. I will take thier council to heart. I meant you no harm. I acknowledge that my perception was not what you meant. I wish you welll, and will not respond in the same manner the next time.

No, to those wha may wonder, I have not gone psychotic. I do not think?

WHEW !!! Dat's a weleef.

No, but you are standing a bit taller now...

-bear

musta been that crick in his back.

This post has been edited by mozart: May 29 2007, 09:23 PM

[mozart]

maybe its me but when i am discussing a subject with lots of different people i dont expect all and sundry to agree with every single thing i do and say,neither do i take offence and deem it a personal spiritual attack when an opposeing view is expressed.

denny,
maybe you don't, but some people do and one opposing view is one thing; one after the other after the other after the other is quite different. i was here following the entire discussion and i still don't know what she said that brought out such personal opposition. IMO, respect was waning heavily and when you call someone a martyr because they get offended, that is a personal spiritual attack.
so..PB,
i really liked the puppies gettin' off the porch analogy. i used to raise hybrid-wolves and to watch them with their young is a sight to behold. the patience and gentleness is quite inspiring. we could learn a lot from them.


right on. thanks brick

I also see Matthew 24 as making the fall and destruction of Jerusalem analogous or typical of the destruction of the rebellious world at the end of time. According to Daniel 9:24-27 and Jesus words in Matthew 23:38, probation closed for the Jewish nation AD 31-34. The Matthew 24:16 sign saying it was time to “flee to the mountains” occurred more than thirty years later (in AD 66 as I recollect), but just before the actual destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.

Is there not a distinction to be made between Ellen White’s counsels to find a home in the country (these counsels I think are full of practical common sense when taken in their entirety), and her endtime application of the prophecy in Matthew 24 to “flee to the mountains?” As I read her writings, the former counsels she applied to the here and now, the latter not till after the close of probation, when the work of the gospel is over.

“As the decree issued by the various rulers of Christendom against commandment keepers shall withdraw the protection of government and abandon them to those who desire their destruction, the people of God will flee from the cities and villages and associate together in companies, dwelling in the most desolate and solitary places. Many will find refuge in the strongholds of the mountains. Like the Christians of the Piedmont valleys, they will make the high places of the earth their sanctuaries and will thank God for ‘the munitions of rocks.’ Isaiah 33:16. But many of all nations and of all classes, high and low, rich and poor, black and white, will be cast into the most unjust and cruel bondage…” Great Controversy, p. 626.

The positioning of the above statement is right in the middle of the chapter, “The Time of Trouble”, which comes after the chapter entitled, “The Final Warning.”

This post has been edited by mozart: May 29 2007, 09:46 PM

[Noahswife]

[/b]

[b]I just wonder why you made the post at all.

IMO no further explanation is necessary or warranted.

A gentleman he is.

nw

[mozart]

ITA.

IMO no further explanation is necessary or warranted.

A gentleman he is.

nw

[Clay]

Mozart said:

IMO, respect was waning heavily and when you call someone a martyr because they get offended, that is a personal spiritual attack.

For the record no one was called a martyr... what I said was if someone was "ripped apart" for their position they took on egw that might foster a martyr complex..... what I did not say but could have said was, in this church that complex is quite common.... but I chose not to go there....

Denny in a follow up comment indicated that at times the martyr complex is used to end discussion, but she did not say that someone was doing that in this particular discussion....

as for the puppies, and dogs on the porch or whatever, my position is simple, anyone can interact, but if the comments are taken personally, then maybe you need to pause for a moment before continuing..... We share, we learn (or not), and we move on to the next discussion.... but that's just me....

[Denny]

denny,
maybe you don't, but some people do and one opposing view is one thing; one after the other after the other after the other is quite different. i was here following the entire discussion and i still don't know what she said that brought out such personal opposition. IMO, respect was waning heavily and when you call someone a martyr because they get offended, that is a personal spiritual attack.

In which post did this happen?

[SoulEspresso]

I also see Matthew 24 as making the fall and destruction of Jerusalem analogous or typical of the destruction of the rebellious world at the end of time. According to Daniel 9:24-27 and Jesus words in Matthew 23:38, probation closed for the Jewish nation AD 31-34. The Matthew 24:16 sign saying it was time to “flee to the mountains” occurred more than thirty years later (in AD 66 as I recollect), but just before the actual destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.

Is there not a distinction to be made between Ellen White’s counsels to find a home in the country (these counsels I think are full of practical common sense when taken in their entirety), and her endtime application of the prophecy in Matthew 24 to “flee to the mountains?” As I read her writings, the former counsels she applied to the here and now, the latter not till after the close of probation, when the work of the gospel is over.

“As the decree issued by the various rulers of Christendom against commandment keepers shall withdraw the protection of government and abandon them to those who desire their destruction, the people of God will flee from the cities and villages and associate together in companies, dwelling in the most desolate and solitary places. Many will find refuge in the strongholds of the mountains. Like the Christians of the Piedmont valleys, they will make the high places of the earth their sanctuaries and will thank God for ‘the munitions of rocks.’ Isaiah 33:16. But many of all nations and of all classes, high and low, rich and poor, black and white, will be cast into the most unjust and cruel bondage…” Great Controversy, p. 626.

The positioning of the above statement is right in the middle of the chapter, “The Time of Trouble”, which comes after the chapter entitled, “The Final Warning.”

I agree with the general principle of dwelling as far from bad influences as you can. For a lot of us that can only be metaphorical.

Move to the mountains if you can, but be advised ... freaks and predators live in the country, too. And some of them move there so they can get away with their deviancies.

Some time back, I lived a day's drive from a canyon where, a hundred years ago, a bunch of Adventists moved to await the coming of the Lord. The area was derisively called "Advent Gulch" (as it turns out, that's what it's called on the USGS) and the Seventh-day Adventist church in the area is still trying to recover their reputation to this day. A lot of that bad reputation is totally undeserved, but some of the families in Advent Gulch had no place hanging around God's people.

This post has been edited by SoulEspresso: Jun 1 2007, 06:51 PM