A Suggetsted End To The Conflict Options

[mystery- man]

Wouldn't it be nice if we could finally have a end to this saga. What if Danny, Linda, and the doctor and the board and all those involved would come on 3abn together to ask forgiveness of each other and actually fufill the "Mending broken Hearts" theme. You know even now it is not to late, God will and does forgive. What a black eye it would give satan and his plans. I always thought it was interesting after David was caught and outed that God turned the tragedy into a triumph and Solomon the illegitimate son became king.


Even now there is hope if only we would grasp the hand of God and let go of pride. No, some things will remain the same and others will have to except the outcome but what a testimony to the world would it be. But pride and self must be crucified and then God could be glorified.


If anyone else would like to give a example of a possible outcome that would glorify God please give it. Sometimes prayer can melt a heart, and then what was the worst situation can be turned to a blessing and a triumph in the end. If only Danny would understand that God loves him and his mercy is soooooo goood that ALL THINGS WORK TOGETHER FOR THE GLORY OF GOD.

[Pickle]

There should also be some asking of forgiveness of all those Church of God folk who have gotten threatened by Danny or his lawyer if they talk about Tommy's child molestation allegations.

And then there needs to be some asking of forgiveness of donors if their money has been misappropriated.

And anyone who has been wrongfully terminated, like the folks that are pursuing lawsuits now, and those whoa ren't. They need to be asked forgiveness of too.

It's not all about Linda. I wish people would stop pretending that it is. Her case is a small part of everything that has gone on. And as long as Danny keeps pretending to the contrary, the whole thing is not going to get resolved.

[roxe]

mystery-man and pickle,

i've been pleading with God for this to happen since i started reading here last november...
what a TRIUMPH for the LORD and a black eye for satan should that happen...

praying, praying, praying... never stop...

This post has been edited by roxe: Feb 7 2007, 12:09 AM

[Bystander]

There should also be some asking of forgiveness of all those Church of God folk who have gotten threatened by Danny or his lawyer if they talk about Tommy's child molestation allegations.

And then there needs to be some asking of forgiveness of donors if their money has been misappropriated.

And anyone who has been wrongfully terminated, like the folks that are pursuing lawsuits now, and those whoa ren't. They need to be asked forgiveness of too.

It's not all about Linda. I wish people would stop pretending that it is. Her case is a small part of everything that has gone on. And as long as Danny keeps pretending to the contrary, the whole thing is not going to get resolved.

I notice that you are saying "if" now instead of just making the allegations a statement of fact like you usually do. Hope you're not a day late and a dollar short but anyway....

question: Something was brought to my attention that was on wickipedia. You were challenging something about the catholic church but you signed your name Dr. Pickle. I know you are not a medical doctor so I was wondering what your education was and what you are a Dr. of?


If anyone else would like to give a example of a possible outcome that would glorify God please give it. Sometimes prayer can melt a heart, and then what was the worst situation can be turned to a blessing and a triumph in the end. If only Danny would understand that God loves him and his mercy is soooooo goood that ALL THINGS WORK TOGETHER FOR THE GLORY OF GOD.
[/quote]

Your last paragraph only mentions Danny. Shouldn't your thoughts include Linda as well?

This post has been edited by Bystander: Feb 7 2007, 12:09 AM

[inga]

Thank you, MM, for suggesting a good possible outcome.

As Bob Pickle has pointed out, a little more is needed than you suggest in your scenario below, because many others have been hurt!

Wouldn't it be nice if we could finally have a end to this saga. What if Danny, Linda, and the doctor and the board and all those involved would come on 3abn together to ask forgiveness of each other and actually fufill the "Mending broken Hearts" theme. You know even now it is not to late, God will and does forgive. What a black eye it would give satan and his plans. I always thought it was interesting after David was caught and outed that God turned the tragedy into a triumph and Solomon the illegitimate son became king.

Just a small but very important correction re the biblical story:
Solomon was not the illegitimate son. The child born out of wedlock died! That was the penalty for David's transgression. Even though David was forgiven, the child still died, as God had said. There was much more fall-out from David's sin, and God did not prevent the consequences of his sin from happening. Just so, today we may be forgiven, but that does not mean that there is no price to pay -- often the natural consequences of our transgression. However, this price is small indeed compared to the temporal and eternal consequences of being unwilling to repent and seek forgiveness.

Even now there is hope if only we would grasp the hand of God and let go of pride. No, some things will remain the same and others will have to except the outcome but what a testimony to the world would it be. But pride and self must be crucified and then God could be glorified.

Amen!!

[mystery- man]

Obviously, not all the wrongs will be righted, fallible human beings cannot go back and change the past, only the now and the future. Forgiveness intails by its very nature the acceptance of being wronged and forgiving the one that wrongs you.


Now the victims of Tommy need our love and sympathy and we need to lead by example, meaning helping them to forgive. No it is not all about Linda and neither should it be, Christ should be our main concern and the glorifying of Him.


I think about the many many times God has forgiven me and not even allowed me to receive my just recompense for the things I have done and it makes me weep. After all none of us will make it to heaven on our own reputation or merits. Jesus and his death alone for our sins is our only ticket.


Maybe if Danny and the others read this they will see that more than anything we want God to be glorified and see that everyone including Him and His brother and the victims and the EVERYONE is saved. But the requirements of God is this. "If we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive us and cleans us from all unrighteousness". I am in no less need of a savior than Danny and whoever, I stand filthy before God, not even better that Tommy.


What I am saying by no means is intended to justify sin either, all I am trying to say is that God is here to be the sin bearer no matter how bad (Wow it brings tears to my eyes) what a LOVELY AWESOME GOD WE SERVE. I think that Danny you being the catalyst if only you would repent and fall at the feet of Jesus. NOW MAYBE YOU ARE NOT GUILTY OF ALL SAID OF YOU- but neither was Jesus guilty to die but for loves sake he did it anyway. Instead of talking about this forum call your ex wife offer her to come back- pray with her and the others on television for the sake of God. HUMBLE yourselves and God would be glorified.

[husbandoftheyear]

One of the greatest challenges that we, as Christians, face is to love our neighbors. This is the greatest of the gifts of God and yet, it is more often than not, the most difficult for us to live and share. After all that has happened, after all that has been said, after all the fighting and threatening, and yes, even horribly-unchristian comments, I believe, I MUST believe that deep down, we are all here for one common purpose - to see resolution. Unfortunately, there is no single act that can appease all parties and perhaps that is understandable considering the amount of hurt that has been done and the number of people involved.

I think we all know how difficult it is to forgive those that we love, perhaps out of pride, or anger, or plain stubborness. Now think of forgiving those that we do not love, those that have hurt us, perhaps even the ones that are supposed to love us the most. How does one begin to forgive them? It would be nice to think that we would be able to treat them like Christ treated us. It would be nice to think that after a single conversation all wrongs would be righted as God allows us to do through prayer. But, that is not going to happen. So people are left to their "sides", their "corners", their "teams" to decide what their next step will be and what will cause the most damage.


What happens if, in the end, we are left with people who are more broken than before, just divided?

[mystery- man]

Inga, I thought Solomon was Bethsheba son, anyway I cant look it up at this time. I just wanted you to know tho I was in no way trying to imply no consequences for actions what I was saying was the just compensation was not given because God tempered it with love. The penalty for David was and should have been death but God so loved.



Sorry if I misquoted or seem to have implied something like no consequences, obviously 3ABN and the rest have already suffered some consequences for their actions. I was saying how loving God is that he tempers what should be the result of our sin due to his great love for us. Also often he only allowes the punishment not because he did not forgive but to be as a lesson to others not to repeat the same sin. David's resulting punishment was I believe for one thing as a deterrent for use today. Men (smiley face) already use David as an excuse just think how out of control we would be if David suffered no consequences.

[Richard Sherwin]

I've seen people on here for ages saying there needs to be repetance and forgiveness, and this is so, however there also needs to be restitution and even punishment for wrong deeds. If Danny is really the man of God as is claimed then he would step down and let others take his place (remember David was not allowed to build the temple because of his sins.) The lease on the jet needs to not be renewed etc.

Richard

[Pickle]

Maybe if Danny and the others read this they will see that more than anything we want God to be glorified and see that everyone including Him and His brother and the victims and the EVERYONE is saved. But the requirements of God is this. "If we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive us and cleans us from all unrighteousness". I am in no less need of a savior than Danny and whoever, I stand filthy before God, not even better that Tommy.

All I've wanted to see is an acknowledgement or wrong doing, an apology, an asking for forgiveness. That's all God asks for too, along with total surrender. Without this, we cannot be saved.

Bystander, your user name is "Bystander," which is defined as "a nonparticipant spectator." Obviously, you are not a nonparticipant, and you are more than a mere spectator. If user names aren't necessarily a factual description of reality, why your question?

[Green Cochoa]

All I've wanted to see is an acknowledgement or wrong doing, an apology, an asking for forgiveness. That's all God asks for too, along with total surrender. Without this, we cannot be saved.

Is this truly so? Is that all God asks for? If so, I would ask why DID that illegitimate son of David die? After all, David fasted and prayed, humbling himself for a week for his sin with Bathsheba and for the child's life. God STILL sent the much-deserved punishment to David, and the child died. Did God forgive him? Certainly. But that in no way erased the consequences of his sin.

I agree that God asks for confession and repentance. But God does not say that when we mouth the words "I'm sorry" that all will be "happily ever after" with no ill effects from our wrongs. We cannot hope to outwit God, nor flout his laws. His mercies are great, but, in His own words...

"Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty..." Exodus 34:7

[Treniece]

According to Danny, he is going through trials. This probably means a lot of things that are being said about him are untrue.

[watchbird]

Is this truly so? Is that all God asks for? If so, I would ask why DID that illegitimate son of David die? After all, David fasted and prayed, humbling himself for a week for his sin with Bathsheba and for the child's life. God STILL sent the much-deserved punishment to David, and the child died. Did God forgive him? Certainly. But that in no way erased the consequences of his sin.

I agree that God asks for confession and repentance. But God does not say that when we mouth the words "I'm sorry" that all will be "happily ever after" with no ill effects from our wrongs. We cannot hope to outwit God, nor flout his laws. His mercies are great, but, in His own words...

"Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty..." Exodus 34:7

Thank you Greenie for pointing this out. And let's also not forget that restitution is part of confession and repentance, without which we may consider the confession and repentance to be mere forms and not the kind that God considers true repentance.

Zachaeas is probably the most specific NT pattern for the appropriate restitution.... not only restoring what has been taken, but restoring it "four-fold". When Danny ... and the rest of 3abn admins.... take seriously THIS pattern...

when they restore to their lower echelon employees what they should have received in fair wages through the years...

when they restore to the ministry coffers the value of the "perks" they have taken through the years from both donated funds and employee labor for their own personal benefits...

when they restore to the church from which they have diverted funds through the years the funds and property into which these funds have been converted...

when they have voluntarily... BEFORE they are forced to do so by the courts... restore to ex-employees the value of the lost employment and advancement opportunities they have caused them after their leaving 3abn...

when they have restored peace of mind to those who presently fear to make their identity known because of past harassment.....

When they have done all of that... and admitted that they are not fit to even be associated with a world wide ministry that claims to represent the Adventist church and its message to the world...

Then and only then can we all relax and give thanks to God for raining down justice and mercy upon the earth.

Until then, we must continue to pursue every means possible to achieve justice... knowing that we are working as God's hands upon the earth... and knowing that He will dispense mercy without our begging him to do so.

Forgiveness has nothing to do with any of the above. Forgiveness on the human side has nothing to do with restoring relationships, excusing error, or making the one forgiven feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Forgiveness on the human side can be unilateral... completely independent of any confesson or repentance or restitution. But forgiveness on the human side is only for the benefit of the one who is doing the forgiving... it does nothing at all for the one who needs the forgiveness.

And it has nothing to do with the salvation of the errant one in need of forgiveness. That is solely between God and the erring.... and God is not deceived by any display of exterior "confession or repentance"... nor by any partial "restitution".

According to Danny, he is going through trials. This probably means a lot of things that are being said about him are untrue.

Not at all. It means that he recognizes the truths that are being said about him, and he is beginning to feel trapped and desperate.

[Pickle]

Is this truly so? Is that all God asks for?

Good points. But notice how David's own sentence called for his own death too, but his prompt confession to Nathan upon rebuke led to the promise, "You shall not die." Of course, there may still be consequences even if we confess, and given everything, those consequences have to include Danny's dismissal, as well as many of the board members.

[ex3ABNemployee]

Obviously, not all the wrongs will be righted, fallible human beings cannot go back and change the past, only the now and the future. Forgiveness intails by its very nature the acceptance of being wronged and forgiving the one that wrongs you.
Now the victims of Tommy need our love and sympathy and we need to lead by example, meaning helping them to forgive. No it is not all about Linda and neither should it be, Christ should be our main concern and the glorifying of Him.
I think about the many many times God has forgiven me and not even allowed me to receive my just recompense for the things I have done and it makes me weep. After all none of us will make it to heaven on our own reputation or merits. Jesus and his death alone for our sins is our only ticket.
Maybe if Danny and the others read this they will see that more than anything we want God to be glorified and see that everyone including Him and His brother and the victims and the EVERYONE is saved. But the requirements of God is this. "If we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive us and cleans us from all unrighteousness". I am in no less need of a savior than Danny and whoever, I stand filthy before God, not even better that Tommy.
What I am saying by no means is intended to justify sin either, all I am trying to say is that God is here to be the sin bearer no matter how bad (Wow it brings tears to my eyes) what a LOVELY AWESOME GOD WE SERVE. I think that Danny you being the catalyst if only you would repent and fall at the feet of Jesus. NOW MAYBE YOU ARE NOT GUILTY OF ALL SAID OF YOU- but neither was Jesus guilty to die but for loves sake he did it anyway. Instead of talking about this forum call your ex wife offer her to come back- pray with her and the others on television for the sake of God. HUMBLE yourselves and God would be glorified.

Mystery man, thanks for your comments.

Speaking for myself, I do believe in my heart I have forgiven Tommy, but because of the very nature of what he did, he must be prevented from doing it again. It has happened over and over and over. Forgiveness does not include overlooking sin, especially when there is the potential of others being harmed.