Linda's Litigation Options

[mozart]

Pete, I am convinced that God has given you the gift or timing (and wit).
Thanks for your contributions here....you are another special member of this great bsda fam!

I totally agree SSOM. Bless you pete. very much appreciated from this peanut.

[PrincessDrRe]

Well....

[Fran]

Fran, Wow! Thank you for taking the time to provide the links, details and interpretations of the data found. I'm writing a rather long, detailed and technical response, in part because your post was also detailed. I haven't had the chance to check all of what you sent me, but I did check the 2001 990. The auditor's concerns (as reported in the lawsuit documents) and what you had posted - gravely concerned, even alarmed, me. But, as I show below, there is no reason to be alarmed - at least not about the 990 in 2001.

The 990 states (and please correct me if I am wrong) - the information posted in Statement 2 (page 17):
So I went back to part 1, Line 20 and that line reads "Other changes in net assets or fund balances (attach explanation)"

I interpret this to mean that this 990 is correcting prior mistakes/errors and sometime in 2001 3ABN had recorded the previously unrecorded split interest agreements and also recorded the unrealized gains on marketable securities. To go into a little more detail on the unrealized gains - these gains were described as unrealized. Meaning that the end of year value of the securities was greater than the beginning of year value, but the marketable securities had not been sold during the year - hence the gain is unrealized. This is a paper gain that should have been recorded in an earlier year (2000?), but had not been. It seems to me that you are familiar with accounting and so would know that prior period adjustments (such as this unrealized gain) are made directly to retained earnings in the case of a corporation and in the case of not for profit organization would be an adjustment to the fund balance. Which is exactly what 3ABN did. Therefore, I am relieved to see that 3ABN had made the correction to the prior periods error!

About the amounts due to other ministries, according to the the 990 these amounts had previously been classified as temporarily restricted and were now being reclassified to something else. I didn't see what they were being classified to, but since this amount is in parenthesis (meaning it is being subtracted) would indicate that in this correction 3ABN was removing that amount from its fund balance. To get a bit technical here (and probably lose the rest of the readers who would have gotten even this far in my post) we know that the debit was to some restricted account (I assume restricted cash) and was improperly credited to some account (such as donations or something similar) that increased the fund balance. I supposed that this is an easy enough mistake to make and part of the reason books are audited - to find material errors and misstatements. Anyway, the good news is the auditors caught the mistake and that 3ABN made the correction in 2001 as is reported in the 990.

These are perfectly good explanations for what happened. You are correct when you said "3ABN did not post $2.45 MILLION Dollars in TRUST FUNDS in 2001." Well at least partly correct, the year would have been 2000 or earlier. The 990 shows that they corrected this in 2001.

But when you say "They also mis-posted over $14,000 of money meant to be forwarded to other Independent Ministries. The funds went straight into the 3ABN coffers. I still wonder what Ministries did not get their money" I beg to differ. Truth be said, of course the money went straight into 3ABN's coffers. It was sent to 3ABN and would go into their coffers before going out of the 3ABN coffers into another ministry's coffers. We don't have any indication that any ministry did not get its money in 2000 - we only know that 3ABN did not record the receipt of the cash properly. In other words, we know that 3ABN made a mistake with the accounting when the cash came into the coffers. This tells us nothing about any transaction transferring the money out of the coffers. And again the 990 tells us that in 2001 3ABN made the correction to its books.

I'll have to take the time to investigate the other points you brought up, to see if 3ABN is correcting mistakes, or just making them and leaving them be. But so far the verdict is the 3ABN is making the corrections.

God bless.

Shiney Penny (now starting to follow the money around)

I haven't forgotten you. I have not had a chance to reply in detail. Will try tomorrow, I promise. Thanks for your reply.

[Shiny Penny]

SP has let me know he's read Barbara Kerr's letter--as of last night. He needs time to sort this out in his mind, but will offer a comment perhaps on Sunday (too busy today).

Compare the speed with which he was able to assess Fran's post, and evaluate the 990 forms. I expect that reading the 3abn vs. State of Illinois court case will be a breeze...and simply letting us know if he understand what 3abn was doing wrong. A simple yes or no would suffice.

LaurenceD - As I told you I reread Barbara's letter on Friday night. In my earlier reply to you I said that I thought Danny should have released the tapes to Barbara - this is my opinion based on what I read.

But you have asked me to give further opinion on or reaction to her letter. It's a long letter, and since you didn't ask me to respond to any particular part of her letter and it would take too long to try and give my opinion on everything (and at this point I am saddened by nearly all of what she related). So I have decided to respond to the one part of the letter where Barbara shares both what Danny and what Alyssa told her about the same situation/circumstances. My purpose is not really to express an opinion, but rather to give what could be called another interpretation of what she's written.

According to Barbara Danny says "he and Alyssa were great friends, they were buddies, and that he called her often and they had wonderful conversations." This is his take on their relationship.

According to Barbara Alyssa says "We are NOT friends, he won't quit calling me." This is her take.

Is Danny lying when he says they are great friends? Probably not. He perceived the relationship as great. Is Alyssa lying when she says they are NOT friends - again probably not. She perceives things differently - and not surprisingly so: he and her mother are getting/have gotten a very public divorce.

Same thing goes about their take on the conversations. Danny says he called Alyssa often...and here she agrees with him, though she clearly does not seem to appreciate the calls. Those of us that have been around a bit longer than Alyssa just come right out and tell the unwanted caller - please don't call anymore (and maybe not even say please). But in her case, Barbara says she feels sorry for him, so is probably tolerating the calls.

Now on to this prescription writing business. I've got some serious questions on this one. Barbara writes that Danny said that Alyssa wrote him a prescription, something she's authorized to do as a physician's assistant. (Kudos to her for completing that difficult program!)

Alyssa told Barbara that she, Alyssa, "only wrote him a prescription because I felt sorry for him." I was taken aback at this statement and that she would actually say something like that out loud - though I suspect that she did not expect Barbara to write it up and it get posted on the internet for anyone around the world to see. Goodness - I thought the medical professionals were not in the practice of writing prescriptions because of feeling sorry for someone. I'm not sure of all the rules of prescription writing, but I hope my doctor isn't prescribing meds only because he/she feels sorry for me. But she was young and just newly graduated.

This is one take on what Barbara said in a part of her letter. And I've only addressed this part because there are two points of view to compare. Keep in mind though that I'm presenting what could be another interpretation of the facts as presented by Barbara.

Now I'd be interested in knowing what you think this says about me!

I won't go on much more on her letter, because you have asked me to also comment on the State of Illinois case. Other than reading a paragraph here or there I have not read it. It is a long document. Perhaps if there is a particular point that you would like me to give my take on or to present another point of view on, let me know. That way I can focus on something that is of particular interest to you.

In my earlier response to Fran's email about the 990s, I know I said that I would come back and address her other points, but you are keeping me so busy with responding to these other questions that I'm going to take a pass on that for the time being - perhaps only going back to it if there is some popular demand for me to.

Wishing you all the best for the week ahead.

This post has been edited by Shiny Penny: May 6 2007, 07:13 AM

[Observer]

Alyssa told Barbara that she, Alyssa, "only wrote him a prescription because I felt sorry for him." I was taken aback at this statement and that she would actually say something like that out loud - though I suspect that she did not expect Barbara to write it up and it get posted on the internet for anyone around the world (including whatever medical authorities that assess professional ethics) to see. Goodness - I thought the medical professionals wrote prescriptions to treat their patients for conditions that the medical professional has personally assessed, are not in the practice of writing prescriptions because of feeling sorry for someone. I'm not sure of all the rules of prescription writing, but I hope my doctor isn't prescribing meds only because he/she feels sorry for me. But she was young and just newly graduated and can (hopefully) be forgiven for this lapse in judgment.

There is an implication in the above that some people might think implied that Alyssa inappropriately wrote a prescription for Danny. That is to say that she wrote it because she was sorry for him, and he wanted it, and not because it was appropriate for him to have it, and in addition that she wrote it without proper assessment of whether or not he needed it. I would like to address those implications:

1) In my experience I have often seen a physician write a prescription fore someone whom they knew simply on the basis of a telephone request for a prescription. I have seen this done when the prescription was for a refill of an expired Rx, and when it was for a totally new prescription.

It is not against professional ethics for a physician to do so. Alyssa clearly knew Danny well. It would have been ethical for her to have written a prescription for him without an u-close, personal examination of him.

2) It also possible that Danny met whatever requirements existed for it to be appropriate for him to have that prescription written for him. IOW, he needed it. He was not faking it. It was not for any illicit use. Alyssa's feeling sorry for him should not be taken to indicate that he did not need it. Rather, it could be taken to indicate that she wrote it herself, because she felt sorry for him rather than refusing and requiring him to go so someone else.

NOTE: I understand that Alyssa in not a physician, but is a PA and therefore can write certain prescriptions.

This post has been edited by Observer: May 6 2007, 05:41 AM

[watchbird]

LaurenceD - As I told you I reread Barbara's letter on Friday night. In my earlier reply to you I said that I thought Danny should have released the tapes to Barbara - this is my opinion based on what I read.

But you have asked me to give further opinion on or reaction to her letter. It's a long letter, and since you didn't ask me to respond to any particular part of her letter and it would take too long to try and give my opinion on everything (and at this point I am saddened by nearly all of what she related). So I have decided to respond to the one part of the letter where Barbara shares both what Danny and what Alyssa told her about the same situation/circumstances. My purpose is not really to express an opinion, but rather to give what could be called another interpretation of what she's written.

According to Barbara Danny says "he and Alyssa were great friends, they were buddies, and that he called her often and they had wonderful conversations." This is his take on their relationship.

According to Barbara Alyssa says "We are NOT friends, he won't quit calling me." This is her take.

Is Danny lying when he says they are great friends? Probably not. He perceived the relationship as great. Is Alyssa lying when she says they are NOT friends - again probably not. She perceives things differently - and not surprisingly so: he and her mother are getting/have gotten a very public divorce.

Same thing goes about their take on the conversations. Danny says he called Alyssa often...and here she agrees with him, though she clearly does not seem to appreciate the calls. Those of us that have been around a bit longer than Alyssa just come right out and tell the unwanted caller - please don't call anymore (and maybe not even say please). But in her case, Barbara says she feels sorry for him, so is probably tolerating the calls.

Now on to this prescription writing business. I've got some serious questions on this one. Barbara writes that Danny said that Alyssa wrote him a prescription, something she's authorized to do as a physician's assistant. (Kudos to her for completing that difficult program!)

Alyssa told Barbara that she, Alyssa, "only wrote him a prescription because I felt sorry for him." I was taken aback at this statement and that she would actually say something like that out loud - though I suspect that she did not expect Barbara to write it up and it get posted on the internet for anyone around the world (including whatever medical authorities that assess professional ethics) to see. Goodness - I thought the medical professionals wrote prescriptions to treat their patients for conditions that the medical professional has personally assessed, are not in the practice of writing prescriptions because of feeling sorry for someone. I'm not sure of all the rules of prescription writing, but I hope my doctor isn't prescribing meds only because he/she feels sorry for me. But she was young and just newly graduated and can (hopefully) be forgiven for this lapse in judgment.

This is one take on what Barbara said in a part of her letter. And I've only addressed this part because there are two points of view to compare. Keep in mind though that I'm presenting what could be another interpretation of the facts as presented by Barbara.

Now I'd be interested in knowing what you think this says about me!
I won't go on much more on her letter, because you have asked me to also comment on the State of Illinois case. Other than reading a paragraph here or there I have not read it. It is a long document. Perhaps if there is a particular point that you would like me to give my take on or to present another point of view on, let me know. That way I can focus on something that is of particular interest to you.

In my earlier response to Fran's email about the 990s, I know I said that I would come back and address her other points, but you are keeping me so busy with responding to these other questions that I'm going to take a pass on that for the time being - perhaps only going back to it if there is some popular demand for me to.

Wishing you all the best for the week ahead.

What it says so far is that you are not seriously interested in researching all of the items having to do with 3abn, but you are only skimming the surface and picking up items that seem to you to be able to be spun in directions which will cast doubt on the way others have seen the item... or to put it another way... you seem to be looking for ways to excuse Danny rather than following up the clues that have led many of us to negative conclusions.

If you are honestly seeking for truth... information.... then when someone hands you a whole sack full of coins, you will not merely pull out one and evaluate it by itself, but you will dig to the bottom of the whole sack.... lay them out on the table and compare them even... before you bring back your opinion that this one or that one was a rather worthless one.

Or to change the metaphor to a more appropriate one... that of looking for the whole picture and how the pieces fit together.... when you are given one piece of the puzzle, you will not stop with that one, but will go yourself... using the tools I gave you earlier... to find all other pieces of that same shape or color.

On the Alyssa and Danny "friendship" issue for example. A search of the website looking for individual posts that mention Alyssa, you will get four pages of hits... which you can then read through to see what else has been said about Alyssa. Or if you search looking for threads that mention or contain mention of Alyssa, you will only get two pages. And if you read down those thread titles, you will even find her name in one of the thread titles.... Statement - Alyssa Moore, Linda Shelton's daughter <<<<click to go to the thread.

But this is not the first time that Alyssa is mentioned... or that the experiences recounted in this thread were mentioned on BSDA. Though since there was an effort to keep her name off of this site, mentions of the incidents were often mere allusions, rather than direct descriptions. You can find some of those in the "Unauthorized History" threads... which is "required reading" for anyone really wanting to find all the pieces of the picture.

So again the question surfaces..... how do you really want to be known here... as a panhandler asking for a single coin for "a cup of coffee"? Or as an industrious researcher who is willing to take the coins offered and invest time and enegy and thought into finding the information to which the clues in each "coin" points?

So far, the answer is rather consistent... but we are willing to think otherwise if you show us differently.

[Shiny Penny]

What it says so far is that you are not seriously interested in researching all of the items having to do with 3abn, but you are only skimming the surface and picking up items that seem to you to be able to be spun in directions which will cast doubt on the way others have seen the item... or to put it another way... you seem to be looking for ways to excuse Danny rather than following up the clues that have led many of us to negative conclusions.

If you are honestly seeking for truth... information.... then when someone hands you a whole sack full of coins, you will not merely pull out one and evaluate it by itself, but you will dig to the bottom of the whole sack.... lay them out on the table and compare them even... before you bring back your opinion that this one or that one was a rather worthless one.

Or to change the metaphor to a more appropriate one... that of looking for the whole picture and how the pieces fit together.... when you are given one piece of the puzzle, you will not stop with that one, but will go yourself... using the tools I gave you earlier... to find all other pieces of that same shape or color.

On the Alyssa and Danny "friendship" issue for example. A search of the website looking for individual posts that mention Alyssa, you will get four pages of hits... which you can then read through to see what else has been said about Alyssa. Or if you search looking for threads that mention or contain mention of Alyssa, you will only get two pages. And if you read down those thread titles, you will even find her name in one of the thread titles.... Statement - Alyssa Moore, Linda Shelton's daughter <<<<click to go to the thread.

But this is not the first time that Alyssa is mentioned... or that the experiences recounted in this thread were mentioned on BSDA. Though since there was an effort to keep her name off of this site, mentions of the incidents were often mere allusions, rather than direct descriptions. You can find some of those in the "Unauthorized History" threads... which is "required reading" for anyone really wanting to find all the pieces of the picture.

So again the question surfaces..... how do you really want to be known here... as a panhandler asking for a single coin for "a cup of coffee"? Or as an industrious researcher who is willing to take the coins offered and invest time and enegy and thought into finding the information to which the clues in each "coin" points?

So far, the answer is rather consistent... but we are willing to think otherwise if you show us differently.

LaurenceD asked me to give some feedback on Barbara Kerr's letter - a paragraph or two was what he asked for. So that's what I did. He did not ask me to give a full research into anything, so I didn't hunt around to find out what else had been said about Alyssa. I responded to what Barbara Kerr wrote.

And as I have said all along when there are two points of view to access, then I feel like I can begin to form an opinion. That's why I focused in on that part of Barbara's letter.

Why should I not try and cast doubt on another persons viewpoint? That shows that I am thinking. Each person assesses and thinks and develops their own opinions. I respect yours...I trust you respect mine.

Am I excusing Danny? Let him excuse himself. Did I express an opinion that "this one or that one was a rather worthless one"? I hope I didn't - there is more than one way to skin a cat.

[Shiny Penny]

There is an implication in the above that some people might think implied that Alyssa inappropriately wrote a prescription for Danny. That is to say that she wrote it because she was sorry for him, and he wanted it, and not because it was appropriate for him to have it, and in addition that she wrote it without proper assessment of whether or not he needed it. I would like to address those implications:

1) In my experience I have often seen a physician write a prescription fore someone whom they knew simply on the basis of a telephone request for a prescription. I have seen this done when the prescription was for a refill of an expired Rx, and when it was for a totally new prescription.

It is not against professional ethics for a physician to do so. Alyssa clearly knew Danny well. It would have been ethical for her to have written a prescription for him without an u-close, personal examination of him.

2) It also possible that Danny met whatever requirements existed for it to be appropriate for him to have that prescription written for him. IOW, he needed it. He was not faking it. It was not for any illicit use. Alyssa's feeling sorry for him should not be taken to indicate that he did not need it. Rather, it could be taken to indicate that she wrote it herself, because she felt sorry for him rather than refusing and requiring him to go so someone else.

NOTE: I understand that Alyssa in not a physician, but is a PA and therefore can write certain prescriptions.

Your point is well taken. I'll go back and edit my post.

I was responding to exactly what Barbara wrote - Alyssa wrote the prescription only because she was sorry for Danny.

[watchbird]

LaurenceD asked me to give some feedback on Barbara Kerr's letter - a paragraph or two was what he asked for. So that's what I did. He did not ask me to give a full research into anything, so I didn't hunt around to find out what else had been said about Alyssa. I responded to what Barbara Kerr wrote.

And as I have said all along when there are two points of view to access, then I feel like I can begin to form an opinion. That's why I focused in on that part of Barbara's letter.

Why should I not try and cast doubt on another persons viewpoint? That shows that I am thinking. Each person assesses and thinks and develops their own opinions. I respect yours...I trust you respect mine.

Am I excusing Danny? Let him excuse himself. Did I express an opinion that "this one or that one was a rather worthless one"? I hope I didn't - there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Well...... you asked......... I responded.

Carry on......

........... .............

[mozart]

SP, if i may, i'd like to ask you a few questions. are you are were you ever an avid watcher and/or contributor to 3ABN?
if so, did you watch the shows with Barbara Kerr?
if so, did you find her to be a truly warm and loving person?
did you see the surprise birthday party for danny show?
have you ever read Barbara Kerr's tesitimony on her website or elsewhere?
the reason i ask these questions is to see if you have any idea what kind of person Barbara Kerr is?

I'd also like to say that when i read the part about A. giving danny a prescription because she felt sorry for him, i never thought it was a careless or reckless act on her part. she didn't give the prescription appropriate or in accord to the pity she felt for him! that skew would be the height of irresponsibility. he probably had a stopped up nose due to allergies and she gave him a prescription for that. i am quite sure it was not for something serious. also, i have a doctor that lived in another state from me and often i would call him for prescriptions when i didn't have a local doctor or my local doctor and i didn't agree on a particular situation that the doctor in the other state and i did agree on. he would provide that as long as it wasn't of a narcotic or sedative nature. he was an Adventist doctor.
i think when we read things with an agenda in mind, it can read quite differently depending on what we want to get out of it.

LaurenceD asked me to give some feedback on Barbara Kerr's letter - a paragraph or two was what he asked for.

And as I have said all along when there are two points of view to access, then I feel like I can begin to form an opinion. That's why I focused in on that part of Barbara's letter.

This post has been edited by mozart: May 6 2007, 09:58 AM

[Jnana15]

Shinny Penny, I'm really suspect of you now. I understand that everyone has a right to their opinion and conclusions, but if you had really seriously read the information and watched 3ABN, the truth would just slap you all up side the head like it did me. After reading Barbara Kerr's letter, and the information about Alyssa on the web, the pieces of this messed up 3ABN puzzle started coming together for me. I felt horrible about the things I allowed my mind to think of Linda when I heard about the divorce three years ago. Now three years later, I'm seeing truth unfold right in front of my face and I wish Danny would just go away in silence. My husband is just as upset as I am and watches 3ABN to see what lies are going to be told next, which is really sad. My dear husband is also cautioning me to be careful on what I post here before our ID's are found out and we get SUED by "Little Ceaser".

JMHO

Jnana

[Panama_Pete]

According to Barbara Danny says "he and Alyssa were great friends, they were buddies, and that he called her often and they had wonderful conversations." This is his take on their relationship.

According to Barbara Alyssa says "We are NOT friends, he won't quit calling me." This is her take.

Is Danny lying when he says they are great friends? Probably not. He perceived the relationship as great. Is Alyssa lying when she says they are NOT friends - again probably not. She perceives things differently - and not surprisingly so: he and her mother are getting/have gotten a very public divorce.

Same thing goes about their take on the conversations. Danny says he called Alyssa often...and here she agrees with him, though she clearly does not seem to appreciate the calls. Those of us that have been around a bit longer than Alyssa just come right out and tell the unwanted caller - please don't call anymore (and maybe not even say please). But in her case, Barbara says she feels sorry for him, so is probably tolerating the calls.

This is one take on what Barbara said in a part of her letter. And I've only addressed this part because there are two points of view to compare. Keep in mind though that I'm presenting what could be another interpretation of the facts as presented by Barbara.

One more fact you should consider is that Nathan Moore is Alyssa Moore's brother.

Nathan had established a working relationship with the Norwegian doctor, but Danny Shelton seems to have short-circuited that relationship, to Nathan Moore's detriment.

Alyssa may have exhibited Christian charity towards such a person, i.e., she may have felt sorry for Danny. However, it is highly unlikely that Nathan's sister is great friends with Danny Shelton.

This post has been edited by Panama_Pete: May 6 2007, 12:33 PM

[mozart]

HIGHLY UNLIKELY

One more fact you should consider is that Nathan Moore is Alyssa Moore's brother.

Nathan had established a working relationship with the Norwegian doctor, but Danny Shelton seems to have short-circuited that relationship, to Nathan Moore's detriment.

Alyssa, may have exhibited Christian charity towards such a person, i.e., she may have felt sorry for Danny. However, it is highly unlikely that Nathan's sister is great friends with Danny Shelton.

This post has been edited by mozart: May 6 2007, 12:26 PM

[runner4him]

Shinny Penny, I'm really suspect of you now. I understand that everyone has a right to their opinion and conclusions, but if you had really seriously read the information and watched 3ABN, the truth would just slap you all up side the head like it did me. After reading Barbara Kerr's letter, and the information about Alyssa on the web, the pieces of this messed up 3ABN puzzle started coming together for me. I felt horrible about the things I allowed my mind to think of Linda when I heard about the divorce three years ago. Now three years later, I'm seeing truth unfold right in front of my face and I wish Danny would just go away in silence. My husband is just as upset as I am and watches 3ABN to see what lies are going to be told next, which is really sad. My dear husband is also cautioning me to be careful on what I post here before our ID's are found out and we get SUED by "Little Ceaser".

JMHO

Jnana

I agree with the feelings you are having about Shinny Penny....sorry if it offends you SP. Thoughts are out there that info is possibly being collected for possible future legal suits....but I am reminded....fear no man...stay on the narrow path....focus on Him...pray for an indwelling of His Spirit....be ready with an answer given by the Lord!

[Whtz Happenin]

I agree with the feelings you are having about Shinny Penny....sorry if it offends you SP. Thoughts are out there that info is possibly being collected for possible future legal suits....but I am reminded....fear no man...stay on the narrow path....focus on Him...pray for an indwelling of His Spirit....be ready with an answer given by the Lord!

IMO, I do not think forming an opinion of someone quickly is a good idea. Shiny Penny came here a few days ago and starting asking a lot of questions. Encouraging him to read more was an excellent idea because there are no easy answers to the many subjects here. If we want to understand, then we have to be committed to spending the time to consume the plethora of information here and being willing to spit out the bad and digest the good.

Challenging others on their stance or statements is a good idea. Pushing them too much one way or another may influence them to reject your views all together.

I mean really think about it, those here to only defend DS make it pretty obvious over time. They are not hear to learn, but to only defend DS at any cost. Most of them have eventually been banned, but may comeback with new usernames.

That is just my opinion and my opinion is the one subject that I am an expert in.

Shiny Penny, Keep digging while keeping an open mind.