Lawsuit Secrecy, ...and other pieces of a bigger puzzle Options

[sister]

Why are the contents of the lawsuit against Pickle and Joy sealed? What does Danny and 3ABN have to hide?

I am assuming that the request to the court came from the long list of attorneys that Garwin McNeilus' money has bought and paid for, rather than from Pickle and Joy who have pushed for full disclosure in all matters: from Danny's divorce of Linda---without Biblical grounds---to his mismanagement of 3ABN and other covert activities. Why the secrecy if this is a simple matter of copyright infringement? What is it that 3ABN does not want the general public or the stockholders in the pews to know?

In the past Danny has only threaten lawsuits, claiming that financially he can drag anyone he chooses through the courts until they have been ruined and lost all their assets. His threats have always been nothing more than posturing, a paper tiger roaring loudly to frighten the underdog nipping at his ankles. Again I ask, why is he proceeding now? And more importantly, why the secrecy? What is Dan so afraid of Pickle and Joy discovering that he and McNeilus are now pulling out the big guns in an attempt to silence them and discredit any further information their investigation may bring to light or the means of spreading that information worldwide?

I know for a fact that the information that has been revealed to date concerning Danny Shelton and improprieties in the management of 3ABN on www.save3abn.org is only the tip of the iceberg in regard to what has actually taken place.

Donations have been down at 3ABN the entire first quarter. This fact was confirmed by Mollie Steenson on the Thursday night live, where the merger of 3ABN and Amazing Facts was announced. On the same program Danny also called out for the need of millions of dollars for the new merged organization. If both organizations are financially sound and will continue with their current operations at this time and merely combine their boards into one entity, why the sudden need for millions? Amazing Facts has speakers and potential programming, 3ABN already has the equipment and the studios, why the sudden need for millions of dollars pumped into the combined budget? What information is being withheld from the viewing public? Why has there been no information regarding the addition of other "self supporting" ministries to this new organization? Amazing Facts has been in negotiations with Weimar Institute and College to add them to the package. What other ministries will be brokered into the mix?

The matchmaker for the marriage of Amazing Facts and 3ABN was Garwin McNeilus. Garwin was the faceless man, in CA Murray's "dream", who did so much of the talking at the merger meeting in Colorado. He is the money man behind the scenes who pays for attorneys, provides locations for secret merger meetings, is the power and authority behind ASI and is silently building a new empire within the "self supporting ministries" of Adventism. This empire begins with the merging of 3ABN, Amazing Facts, Weimar Institute and College, and the support of unnamed persons and entities within ASI. The consortium that backs this marriage, headed by Garwin McNeilus, is a group of very wealthy SDA business men. Men who have money and desire for greater power. They made an attempt for a takeover in the running of OCI (Outposts Centers International) a little over 2 years ago, at that time the attempt failed. Now they build their base upon a broader foundation: 3ABN/Amazing Facts/Weimar Institute and College merger. What is their plan and what is their goal? And why is it so important for them to stop the investagations of Pickle and Joy?

Why the lawsuit now and the secrecy surrounding it's particulars? Follow the money trail...

This post has been edited by sister: May 3 2007, 04:38 PM

[from-the-pew]

I heard about the Weimar negotiations a couple months ago... I had thought that was finished, signed, and done... From what you're saying, its not?

[Observer]

Why are the contents of the lawsuit against Pickle and Joy sealed? What does Danny and 3ABN have to hide?

I am assuming that the request to the court came from the long list of attorneys that Garwin McNeilus' money has bought and paid for, rather than from Pickle and Joy who have pushed for full disclosure in all matters, from Danny's divorce of Linda---without Biblical grounds---to his mismanagement of 3ABN and other covert activities. Why the secrecy if this is a simple matter of copyright infringement? What is it that 3ABN does not want the general public or the stockholders in the pew to know?

In the past Danny has always only threaten lawsuits, claiming that financially he can drag anyone he chooses through the courts until they have been ruined and lost all their assets. He threat have always been nothing more than posturing, a paper tiger roaring loudly to frighten the underdog nipping at his ankles. Again I ask, why is he proceeding now? And more importantly, why the secrecy? What is Dan so afraid of Pickle and Joy discovering that he and McNeilus are now pulling out the big guns in an attempt to silence them and discredit any further information their investigation may bring to light or the means of spreading that information worldwide?

I know for a fact that the information that has been revealed to date concerning Danny Shelton and improprieties in the management of 3ABN on www.save3abn.org is only the tip of the iceberg in regard to what has actually taken place.

Donations have been down at 3ABN the entire first quarter. This fact was confirmed by Mollie Steenson on the Thursday night live, where the merger of 3ABN and Amazing Facts was announced. On the same program Danny also called out for the need of millions of dollars for the new merged organization. If both organizations are financially sound and will continue with their current operations at this time and merely combine their boards into one entity, why the sudden need for millions? Amazing Facts has speakers and potential programming, 3ABN already has the equipment and the studios, why the sudden need for millions of dollars pumped into the combined budget? What information is being withheld from the viewing public? Why has there been no information regarding the addition of other "self supporting" ministries to this new organization? Amazing Facts has been in negotiations with Weimar Institute and College to add them to the package. What other ministries will be brokered into the mix?

The matchmaker for the marriage of Amazing Facts and 3ABN was Garwin McNeilus. Garwin was the faceless man, in CA Murray's "dream", who did so much of the talking at the merger meeting in Colorado. He is the money man behind the scenes who pays for attorneys, provides locations for secret merger meetings, is the power and authority behind ASI and is silently building a new empire within the "self supporting ministries" of Adventism. This empire begins with the merging of 3ABN, Amazing Facts, Weimar Institute and College, and the support of unnamed persons and entities within ASI. The consortium that backs this marriage, headed by Garwin McNeilus, is a group of very wealthy SDA business men. Men who have money and desire for greater power. They made an attempt for a takeover in the running of OCI (Outposts Centers International) a little over 2 years ago, at that time the attempt failed. Now they build their base upon a broader foundation: 3ABN/Amazing Facts/Weimar Institute and College merger. What is their plan and what is their goal? And why is it so important for them to stop the investagations of Pickle and Joy?

Why the lawsuit now and the secrecy surrounding it's particulars? Follow the money trail...

Let me clairfy a point:

The legal documents are sealed. That means that you and I can not read them.

Both Mr. Joy and Mr. Pickle, and thier accredited legal representatives can read them. They know exactly what those documents are. However, they, and their legal representative can not share that information with anyone else. Anyone who is discovered to have shared that information is subject to legal sanction. If an licensed attorney, that person could be subject to legal discipline in additon to judicial sanction.

As understood, this seal is thougth to be extremely restrictive. I.e. Anyone who understands U.S. law knows that there is another legal hearing scheduled in this case. Yet, those principles in this case cannot acknowledge that, and they cannot tell us when it is scheduled. They simply are unable to tell us what the focus of the lawsuit is, or anything about it.

I would expect that any early issue would be for the one side to request that the judge lift the seal, and make the records public. But, that is simply my expectation, and I do not know, as I have not been told such. That request would probably come in a series of proceedural requests. It is likely that both sides will be making proceedural requests.

[Grith]

Isaiah 8
9 Associate yourselves, O ye people, and ye shall be broken in pieces; and give ear, all ye of far countries: gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces; gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces.
10 Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God is with us.
11 For the LORD spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying,
12 Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid.

God reads the secrets of the heart. He is well acquainted with what is going through the minds of these men, and when He sees that the time is right, He will make it known. Their secrets will not remain secret. He will break the power of these men who desire power and prestige. He has already told us that it is the meek who will inherit the earth.

I am saddened by all that is happening, but my trust is in my heavenly Father who knows the end from the beginning. He has drawn a line somewhere though we don't see it, and He will not permit Danny Shelton or Garwin McNeilus or ASI businessmen or anyone to cross that line.

I was thinking about the story of Lucifer and how God did not destroy him immediately. He had to allow him to show his true colors. I believe that God may have allowed Linda to be removed out of 3abn that Danny and others connected with him would have opportunity to show their true colors. God set up 3abn and I believe that He will cleanse and purify it. And all those who have sought to destroy those with whom they disagree will find themselves caught in the net that they laid to entrap others. As SDAs we must be prepared for anything. We have already been told "Many a star that we have admired for its brilliancy will then go out in darkness. Chaff like a cloud will be borne away on the wind, even from places where we see only floors of rich wheat. All who assume the ornaments of the sanctuary, but are not clothed with Christ's righteousness, will appear in the shame of their own nakedness. 5T 81."

Psalm 9
15 The heathen are sunk down in the pit that they made: in the net which they hid is their own foot taken.
16 The LORD is known by the judgment which he executeth: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands. Higgaion. Selah.
17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
18 For the needy shall not alway be forgotten: the expectation of the poor shall not perish for ever.
19 Arise, O LORD; let not man prevail: let the heathen be judged in thy sight.
20 Put them in fear, O LORD: that the nations may know themselves to be but men. Selah.

[PeacefulBe]

Sister,
Ah yes, why the litigation? Somebody must have gotten a little too close to uncovering the truth. And why the secrecy? We must remember that some people are of the opinion that image, no matter how false it may be, must be protected no matter what the cost or who must be sacrificed in the process.

Gregory,
Thank you for clarifying the response we should expect on the part of Bob and Gailon and their legal representatives due to the legal documents being sealed. It is difficult for all of us who have been so involved in the discussions of these issues to now not be allowed to be privy to the details of the suit that Bob and Gailon are facing but none should be particularly surprised that it is being played out in this manner.

Is it possible for the prosecution to litigate the entire case with the details sealed? That seems so unlikely, but could it happen?

Girth,
Bless you for bringing these thoughts to this discussion! I hope all those who are targets of this litigation and whose families are being impacted by the mechanism of such proceedings will take courage and remember that God IS in control. While He clearly expects us to participate in reproving sin, we can all have faith that His course of action will be true and His will done.

[Observer]

Sister,


Gregory,
Thank you for clarifying the response we should expect on the part of Bob and Gailon and their legal representatives due to the legal documents being sealed. It is difficult for all of us who have been so involved in the discussions of these issues to now not be allowed to be privy to the details of the suit that Bob and Gailon are facing but none should be particularly surprised that it is being played out in this manner.

Is it possible for the prosecution to litigate the entire case with the details sealed? That seems so unlikely, but could it happen?

Yes, it could happen.

Pay attention to what I stated in the following:

I would expect that any early issue would be for the one side to request that the judge lift the seal, and make the records public. But, that is simply my expectation, and I do not know, as I have not been told such. That request would probably come in a series of proceedural requests. It is likely that both sides will be making proceedural requests.

The early days of litigation in cases such as this are typically involve with technical and proceedural issues. This is a time in whch if any party wants a change in venue, that request is made. In addition challenges are typically made to orders that have placed documents under seal or impoundment.

Typically, a party will request seal/impoundment. That will be granted on a temporary basis. That is to give the other side a chance to challenge before it becomes permanent. So, if this is any kind of a typical proceeding, the order to impound is not permanent. It simply provides some kind of a time-frame in which the request to impound can be challenged.

So, if this is typical, two of the priority issues for the next hearing would likely be a change in venue, if that is desired, and a challenge to the impoundment, if that is going to be made.

I could also expect some other proceedural and technical issues to be raised early on.

Typically, early on in the proceedings, one or both parties will ask for a summary judgement. That is simply a request for the judge to issue a ruling in that person's favor, without going to a full trial. Typically they are denied, but not always.

Earlly on in the process, both parties will likely ask the court to issue decrees that compel the other party to produce evidence, or compel people to give sworn testimony.

There is going to be a lot of legal manuvering as the two sides each seek their own best advantage. If this is allowed to take place in public view, it will be interesting to observe. If it is all kept under seal, we will have minimal information, and much unsubstantiated gossip. We shall just have to see what happens. I cannot predict what will happen.

[inga]

There is going to be a lot of legal manuvering as the two sides each seek their own best advantage. If this is allowed to take place in public view, it will be interesting to observe. If it is all kept under seal, we will have minimal information, and much unsubstantiated gossip. We shall just have to see what happens. I cannot predict what will happen.

Litigants with a lot of money can also seek to wear down the opposition financially simply by a lot of legal maneuvering that involves a lot of legal costs. It is evident that Garwin McNeilus has enough financial resources to do just that. This would avoid the public exposure that would inevitably result from a trial -- exposure that would give 3ABN a lot of negative publicity. This wearing-down process is playing dirty, but then 3ABN & cohorts have never played "clean."

Gailon Joy and Bob Pickle may very well need a legal defense fund.

I'm wondering, though, on what basis Bob was served. He posted on this public forum, but he cannot be definitely tied to the web site, can he?

I assume that litigants must show some really good reasons to have all court proceedings kept private/sealed?

[Shiny Penny]

I heard about the Weimar negotiations a couple months ago... I had thought that was finished, signed, and done... From what you're saying, its not?

Can you tell us a bit more about these negotiations? And did you find out what is the current status? Thanks.

[Observer]

Litigants with a lot of money can also seek to wear down the opposition financially simply by a lot of legal maneuvering that involves a lot of legal costs. It is evident that Garwin McNeilus has enough financial resources to do just that. This would avoid the public exposure that would inevitably result from a trial -- exposure that would give 3ABN a lot of negative publicity. This wearing-down process is playing dirty, but then 3ABN & cohorts have never played "clean."

Gailon Joy and Bob Pickle may very well need a legal defense fund.

I'm wondering, though, on what basis Bob was served. He posted on this public forum, but he cannot be definitely tied to the web site, can he?

I assume that litigants must show some really good reasons to have all court proceedings kept private/sealed?

Re: Bob:

To answer your questions would potentially give the plaintiff an advantage, either to support their claim, or to let them know how Bob would defend against it.

Impounded documents: It must be assumed that this order is temporary. The defendents will have the opportunity to challenge. Most often when documents are impounded/sealed it is for a limited time. But, it can be forever. Yes, I suspect that the defendents will be able to mount a good case for making them available to the public. But, as I do not know why the plaintiff wanted them sealed, I can only speculate.

This post has been edited by Observer: May 3 2007, 01:21 PM

[watchbird]

I heard about the Weimar negotiations a couple months ago... I had thought that was finished, signed, and done... From what you're saying, its not?

Perhaps you could go back to the source from which you heard this and ask more questions and bring us word of what you learn.

Can you tell us a bit more about these negotiations? And did you find out what is the current status? Thanks.

If this is of interest to you, perhaps you could do some original investigation and bring us word. Both Weimar and Amazing Facts have websites, so you could find contact information there. You might even find someone listed whom you know and to whom you could direct your questions.

[Jnana15]

Can you tell us a bit more about these negotiations? And did you find out what is the current status? Thanks.

Excuse me for asking, but you trying to gather information from a particular person so that they will have a lawsuit brought against them? This is the second time that I've seen your request for information. The other in a different thread.

[Shiny Penny]

Excuse me for asking, but you trying to gather information from a particular person so that they will have a lawsuit brought against them? This is the second time that I've seen your request for information. The other in a different thread.

You are excused for asking. I'm asking a question because I want to know the answer - my question was to a particular person only in response to their earlier post or information in that person's earlier post. Anything wrong with that?

Actually, I'm a little surprised by your question...I thought here at BlackSDA we wanted to know everything. I'm asking questions. I'm hoping that I can get some answers. So far...the answers I've gotten have been vague or no answer at all.

But I shall keep on trying and hoping.

Perhaps you could go back to the source from which you heard this and ask more questions and bring us word of what you learn.
If this is of interest to you, perhaps you could do some original investigation and bring us word. Both Weimar and Amazing Facts have websites, so you could find contact information there. You might even find someone listed whom you know and to whom you could direct your questions.

AF merging with Weimar is of a passing interest to me. I had not heard about it before Pew's post, and was hoping that someone here could provide some information. I suppose I could try and do this research myself, but I doubt I will find the time to do so. I was hoping that someone on this site had information that could be shared with us all.

About finding someone listed whom I know, well, most everyone around here is anonymous. So should I ask some of these people to identify themselves so that I determine whether I know them?

Anyway, I will ask Sister if she can share some info with us, since she's the one that originally brought it up.

This empire begins with the merging of 3ABN, Amazing Facts, Weimar Institute and College, and the support of unnamed persons and entities within ASI.

Sister, Sister

Please let us know what you know about the AF Wiemar merger. Thank you. Shiny Penny

This post has been edited by Shiny Penny: May 3 2007, 03:18 PM

[PeacefulBe]

Litigants with a lot of money can also seek to wear down the opposition financially simply by a lot of legal maneuvering that involves a lot of legal costs. It is evident that Garwin McNeilus has enough financial resources to do just that. This would avoid the public exposure that would inevitably result from a trial -- exposure that would give 3ABN a lot of negative publicity. This wearing-down process is playing dirty, but then 3ABN & cohorts have never played "clean."

Gailon Joy and Bob Pickle may very well need a legal defense fund.

I'm wondering, though, on what basis Bob was served. He posted on this public forum, but he cannot be definitely tied to the web site, can he?

I assume that litigants must show some really good reasons to have all court proceedings kept private/sealed?

Inga,
I know little of the legal system but what kind of legal maneuvering would involve a lot of legal costs for Bob and Gailon since they are "defendants"? I understand that their attornies/counsel/legal representatives must be proactive in insuring that every detail is in place for an even playing field. Are there really so many legal wranglings available to the plaintiffs that it could prove to be an insurmountable financial hardship to these men?

[LaurenceD]

Shiny Penny...your questions are innocent enough, but there's also something kinda fishy. We're not easily fooled. Why not do a little horse trading? We might answer your questions if you begin by answering ours. I posted two for you this morning on the other thread. Let us get to know you for a while first.

BTW, I looked at a shiny penny today, just for good measure, and I saw copper colored skin, and copper colored hair on the image. And a nice little mansion on the back side. I was reminded to follow the money...as sister would say.

[PeacefulBe]

Shiny Penny,

It has been my experience here on BSDA that rather than wanting to know "everything", many of the folks here are most interested in finding the truth. As we all get to know one another better through out discussions we will know how to more properly respond to each other's questions. Sometimes folks get defensive simply because they don't know if the person's motive behind the question asked.

If you would like to know more first hand about any Weimar/AF relationship, I would suggest you might start with contacting them directly. Weimar College's web site can be found here:

http://www.weimarcollege.info/