Legal Posturing Options

[sonshineonme]

Having been there myself (extreme conservative SDA) for most of my formative years, I can corroborate your observations.

1. I had to be right, or I would be lost. "The Truth" was all important, whether it was dress length or level of education.
2. To be right, I had to know what EGW said on every topic, and do it. (I had read everything published by her at the time, by the time I was 17)
3. Once you have read it all, know it all, and do it all (well, most of the time), you are better than everyone else, who hasn't bothered to do what you have done.
4. If they haven't read it, know it, and aren't doing it, what could they possible say that you would have any interest in hearing?
5. If anyone disagrees with me, one of us is WRONG, and that one is lost. Since I can't go there, and since I have read it all, know it all, and do it all, that one cannot be me. I refuse to even consider the possibility.
6. Once I have caught a person in even one nuance of a thought or action or opinion that is "wrong" according to my reading, knowing, and doing, I discount everything they ever say again--after all, "there is no light in them."
7. This template locks you into your "truth" forever, because no one can influence you. Until, that is, you get so burned out from reading, knowing and doing that you have a breakdown, physically, mentally, and spiritually, and you then throw it all out and start over at the beginning with a much more real and honest version of truth, reading, knowing and doing--praise God!
(Believe me, that is not the end of it. I will struggle with the legalistic voices to my dying day...but I am not ruled by them anymore)
shepherdswife--who just told her spiritual development story in 7 simple statements.

So well said!! You have described it so well that I fell back in time for a few (scary) minutes there!!

No matter how it's sliced, it's a trap for "well meaning" folks. I see it as a nice little set-up the devil likes to get people into...you need out, but you won't open your eyes so you can see the door and get out! I'm still encouraged, because I see that people do find their way out, and it's a miracle in itself.

Leaving that type of "thinking" takes you one of two ways - makes cynical and bitter (baby out with the bath water), or a much happier and real christian, that is a real witness to relationship with Jesus. (naturally, JMO).

There are some threads/forums/topics/posts floating around bsda where this has been discussed.....as painful as it is, there has been humor in telling our stories about some things....the best part is knowing there are (have been) so many of us that have walked that same path, and recovered, praise God!

[Clay]

While I don't necessarily disagree with these points, I'm left wondering if the DS supporters aren't a necessary element in this discussion. I'm going to predict that things will get pretty tame on this section for a few days until we get delivery on the new/recyled crop. I don't mean to be cynical but have felt for some time that if we didn't have an adequate number of foils, we would have to go out and recruit them. Just some bear ruminations...

let's see, necessary.... they are necessary if the discussion is really an argument in disguise... the question is are the danny supporters really willing to tell his side of the story, or are they simply going to attempt to justify his actions, some of which have been quite questionable...

To me their position is one of justifying everything he did, and pretend like he did nothing wrong.... if that is all they are going to do, then there can be no discussion..... reread my comments to the various players that have come through there, I tell them each the same thing i.e. even IF Linda had done all she was accused of doing, should she have been treated that way, and their response has been the same..... silence.... And they have been silent because you cannot justify how she was treated...

Now if they want to come clean and share with us (if they know that is) why he has done some of the things he has done, that might be interesting, of course since many who have supported him claim never to have met him, it would be difficult for them to tell us why, because they don't know why.....

So I hear what you are saying, but I suspect because of the mindset, all we will ever have is controlled chaos until everything (whatever that might be) comes out....

[YogusBearus]

let's see, necessary.... they are necessary if the discussion is really an argument in disguise... the question is are the danny supporters really willing to tell his side of the story, or are they simply going to attempt to justify his actions, some of which have been quite questionable...

To me their position is one of justifying everything he did, and pretend like he did nothing wrong.... if that is all they are going to do, then there can be no discussion..... reread my comments to the various players that have come through there, I tell them each the same thing i.e. even IF Linda had done all she was accused of doing, should she have been treated that way, and their response has been the same..... silence.... And they have been silent because you cannot justify how she was treated...

Now if they want to come clean and share with us (if they know that is) why he has done some of the things he has done, that might be interesting, of course since many who have supported him claim never to have met him, it would be difficult for them to tell us why, because they don't know why.....

So I hear what you are saying, but I suspect because of the mindset, all we will ever have is controlled chaos until everything (whatever that might be) comes out....

Well I'm not sure where the line is between discussion and argument. My sense is that we truly do enjoy the argument side as there is only so many ways the same facts/stories can be told and retold.

Maybe the majority really do see the inappropriate removal of Linda Shelton as the primary concern. I, for one, do not. We can all come up with a list of people we know who have been treated as shabbily as she was. Linda needs to move on, get a job, and do her ministry whether full time, or part time like the rest of us should be doing.

I think the real struggle here involves money and power and is not limited to the current players at 3abn. I firmly believe that this mess could turn out to be a watershed point for the Adventist church at large. The stakes are high. Will the church really allow their future to be controlled by a closely held shadow government that is not responsible to anyone?



But what do I know, I'm only a bear….

[Clay]

Well I'm not sure where the line is between discussion and argument. My sense is that we truly do enjoy the argument side as there is only so many ways the same facts/stories can be told and retold.

Maybe the majority really do see the inappropriate removal of Linda Shelton as the primary concern. I, for one, do not. We can all come up with a list of people we know who have been treated as shabbily as she was. Linda needs to move on, get a job, and do her ministry whether full time, or part time like the rest of us should be doing.

I think the real struggle here involves money and power and is not limited to the current players at 3abn. I firmly believe that this mess could turn out to be a watershed point for the Adventist church at large. The stakes are high. Will the church really allow their future to be controlled by a closely held shadow government that is not responsible to anyone?



But what do I know, I'm only a bear….

If that is the case, then the church simply reflects the U.S. government and the players it it i.e. white men who politic and manipulate for power, money or both... I suspect if you are correct then we are looking at a systemic problem which I don't see being solved....

[sonshineonme]

Well I'm not sure where the line is between discussion and argument. My sense is that we truly do enjoy the argument side as there is only so many ways the same facts/stories can be told and retold.

Maybe the majority really do see the inappropriate removal of Linda Shelton as the primary concern. I, for one, do not. We can all come up with a list of people we know who have been treated as shabbily as she was. Linda needs to move on, get a job, and do her ministry whether full time, or part time like the rest of us should be doing.

I think the real struggle here involves money and power and is not limited to the current players at 3abn. I firmly believe that this mess could turn out to be a watershed point for the Adventist church at large. The stakes are high. Will the church really allow their future to be controlled by a closely held shadow government that is not responsible to anyone?



But what do I know, I'm only a bear….

Good points Yogi, the only thing I would add or disagree with is that the majority may have started out with seeing the inappropriate removal of Linda as a primary concern, but that was really a tool in the opening of a pandora's box of everything else to come....no one (publicly) saw anything on the inside, but this is what they saw, and I think God has used it....I have never thought this was all about Linda (only), but a much bigger picture. And it will be a watershed time - that is very clear to me.

Some things are easier said then done, and when it's your life, your pain, your journey, no one can really tell you how to do it, but help you do it, and God is very good at taking us at our own speed, healing us, leading us and giving us things when we are ready for them. He even manages to do this while others are dong their best to obstruct our growth and "moving on".

I think this is one of the biggest reasons God tells us to pray for each other, come together and encourage each other.

One thing I can say for Linda, and it's evident on her website with regard to the many other "squished" people, one never realizes how many people are mistreated until you find yourself on that side of the fence, and you get a new perspective of what happens, and how cruel "christians" can be. I can say this from my own experience as well. And, again, you grow because of it, because God won't waste anything. Many have written to Linda their own stories, and now there are more and new things that we (Linda as well)can all relate to that we really could not have before our own. Through pain, we grow, no matter how the pain got there.

[YogusBearus]

If that is the case, then the church simply reflects the U.S. government and the players it it i.e. white men who politic and manipulate for power, money or both... I suspect if you are correct then we are looking at a systemic problem which I don't see being solved....

You may be right. I do recall that the only thing that galvanizes the silent supporters of the church into action always involves money. We don't get overly upset by the blatant corruption and dishonesty at high levels unless it involves money. In the past we have been quite comfortable with moving pedophiles in ministry from one church to another as long as the money flow wasn't impacted.

So, since money (that giant sucking sound at 3abn and AF is not a fleet of carpet cleaners) is definitely a part of this equation, maybe there is hope.

-bear




This post has been edited by YogusBearus: May 15 2007, 11:53 AM

[Jnana15]

I don't see it as gloating and no it does not place us on the same level.... to talk about the fact that there were those among us who were a pain to deal with at times is a reality and should not be brushed aside. I see the comments as a collective "exhale" and not gloating....

Likewise, I have a real problem with your idea that the banning should have been privately acknowledged and then people move on..... that is what Danny and Co. hoped would happen with his mess.....and I am glad that we did not privately acknowledge it and move on... but that's just me....

Thank you Clay,
because I HAVE been waiting to "exhale" , praying and crying over this 3ABN mess. I allowed gossip from others before finding BSDA, lead me to think non christian thoughts towards Linda. If it appears that I am gloating because they are gone, then so be it. I know one thing for sure, my heart is not beating fast anymore, not loosing sleep staying up late at night on BSDA, and there is peace on this board without reading vicious attacks on others comments, but yet we are the body of Christ? I know that I have been naughty too, but I am ready to apologzie when I'm called on it.

[princessdi]

Yes, we can YB. However, the problem here is that she was treated that way by people who, to this day, call themselves "leaders in Christian living". Also, who continue to drop a word here and there, or dropped enough words initially, to hinder her "moving on". My own conference being an example. I think it was PB who posted that they said they wre going to stay "neutral" when it came to an invitation for Linda to speak at one of our churches here and did not allow her to come. However, Danny was allowed to come, to the conference church no less. Now, how is that being neutral? It seems she is trying, like tht rest of us, but there are stumbling blocks in her way. Put there by the man who claims to be Mending Broken People. Danny can't have it both ways.

Maybe the majority really do see the inappropriate removal of Linda Shelton as the primary concern. I, for one, do not. We can all come up with a list of people we know who have been treated as shabbily as she was. Linda needs to move on, get a job, and do her ministry whether full time, or part time like the rest of us should be doing.

Here we agree.

I think the real struggle here involves money and power and is not limited to the current players at 3abn. I firmly believe that this mess could turn out to be a watershed point for the Adventist church at large. The stakes are high. Will the church really allow their future to be controlled by a closely held shadow government that is not responsible to anyone?

[mozart]

However, if we had simultaneously broken into a giddy chorus of "Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead..." along with our happy dances, that would have qualified as gloating, IMO.

PB

i needed that.

[Snoopy]

(Believe me, that is not the end of it. I will struggle with the legalistic voices to my dying day...but I am not ruled by them anymore)
shepherdswife--who just told her spiritual development story in 7 simple statements.

How wonderfully refreshing!! I know about those voices...