Free Enterprise Options

[lurker]

Looks like Bruce and Tammy Chance sell dogs. http://tinyurl.com/2zoe8w
http://tinyurl.com/2yk3fp http://tinyurl.com/2srxjm http://tinyurl.com/2qsymj http://tinyurl.com/33bnl5 http://tinyurl.com/32btd8

They seem to be very enterprising.

[PeacefulBe]

I have seen Bruce's ads before but not the one that Tammy has listed. I wonder if the ones that Bruce sells with the 3abn email address are being sold for 3abn? I heard recently that he used to have a gun range and a sport hunting facility. Seems he's into that kind of thing so perhaps this is just another of his own personal business ventures. The dogs sell for a pretty penny, especially the trained ones, so it looks like a lucrative enterprise.

[Fran]

I have seen Bruce's ads before but not the one that Tammy has listed. I wonder if the ones that Bruce sells with the 3abn email address are being sold for 3abn? I heard recently that he used to have a gun range and a sport hunting facility. Seems he's into that kind of thing so perhaps this is just another of his own personal business ventures. The dogs sell for a pretty penny, especially the trained ones, so it looks like a lucrative enterprise.

I noticed that phone number too! I'll bet no one told Barbara Rowe! It also has a 3ABN email. Hum... I thought they learned their lesson back then, in loosing the lawsuit, not to use 3ABN phone numbers to sell private stuff. If those ads are current, shame, shame!

The Chance family it into a lot of things. Tammy loves her grandchildren and gets them books to read, costumes, and clothes. She used to sell quite a bit, but now only sells an occasional book, purse or so on eBay.

She offered a beautiful ceramic flower arrangement that I wanted, but it ended before I could get it. It was gorgeous!

It did not sell and I thought it would be re-run, but I was wrong. I keep looking for it. She is a very nice lady and she can sing too.

I wish them well with their dogs. I guess the dogs are worth the money! People are buying them! I need to ask for lessons from them.

[lurker]

Yes, that is 3ABN's phone number in the first two ads. Who knows how old the ads are. Stuff seems to last forever on the internet. I'd be very surprised if they are not still in business though so the ads may help give the business publicity even after those dogs are sold.

She has just finished a new musical project also. I think it will be out shortly. Danny has mentioned it (advertised for it) at least a couple of times.

This post has been edited by lurker: May 30 2007, 04:51 AM

[Observer]

Yes, that is 3ABN's phone number in the first two ads. Who knows how old the ads are. Stuff seems to last forever on the internet. I'd be very surprised if they are not still in business though so the ads may help give the business publicity even after those dogs are sold.

She has just finished a new musical project also. I think it will be out shortly. Danny has mentioned it (advertised for it) at least a couple of times.

Who knows how old the ads are?

There is a simple answer to that question:

"Copyright © 2007 GundogsOnline.com - All Rights Reserved
Thursday, April 26, 2007"

That copyright notice was found at the bottom of one of the URLs listed in the first post in the thread.

NOTE: I have not checked all of the URLs so I do not know if there are such notices in the other ones.

This post has been edited by Observer: May 30 2007, 06:15 AM

[PeacefulBe]

Yes, that is 3ABN's phone number in the first two ads. Who knows how old the ads are. Stuff seems to last forever on the internet. I'd be very surprised if they are not still in business though so the ads may help give the business publicity even after those dogs are sold.

She has just finished a new musical project also. I think it will be out shortly. Danny has mentioned it (advertised for it) at least a couple of times.

Here is a chronological listing of the dogs for sale on the site.

http://www.gundogsonline.com/hunting-dogs-...e/started-dogs/

[Clay]

who cares?

[Observer]

who cares?

If, and I do not know if this is true, a 3-ABN telephone number is being used, or in any way, 3-ABN is associated with such sales, Judge Rowe cares. This was an issue in her decision.

If there is no assoication, and it is not a telephone number related to 3-ABN, like you say: Who cares?

This post has been edited by Observer: May 30 2007, 07:16 AM

[Clay]

If, and I do not know if this is true, a 3-ABN telephone number is being used, or in any way, 3-ABN is associated with such sales, Judge Rowe cares. This was an issue in her decision.

If there is no assoication, and it is not a telephone number related to 3-ABN, like you say: Who cares?

why would the judge continue to care after she made her ruling? Is she currently monitoring 3abn for infractions?

[Observer]

why would the judge continue to care after she made her ruling? Is she currently monitoring 3abn for infractions?

Clay, your point is well taken. I stated my point poorly.

[Clay]

Clay, your point is well taken. I stated my point poorly.

maybe not... maybe I am not understanding how interested the court might be about 3abn's business activity? That's why I asked...

[LaurenceD]

All the state Dept. of Rev. would care about is whether "the two pastor’s offices, each measuring 14 feet by 18 feet, on the second floor of the administrative production center building, and a corresponding amount of land" were being used for profiteering, including receiving phone calls. The rest of the 3abn property can be used for all kinds of commercial activity...as it has in the past. They can sell, and resell, hunt'n dogs, or run charter flights out to NBA games across the states. It doesn't matter anymore. And of course no one would be surprised if that was happening.

==========

Nice find, lurker. In the ads, I noticed a Texas connection again...as in an earlier ebay account. Also a Oklahoma connection. Isn't Tommy in Oklahoma now?

BTW, speaking of hunting dogs, aren't we told that Esau was a hunter?

[lurker]

Actually, as it has been noted before, there is the property tax issue, but there are also separate State and IRS issues. There are questions about non profit status.

Because his siblings, children and grandchildren are related to Danny who is the founder and president, they are considered to be disqualified persons as is he. Danny can offer the use of the sound center and other facilities at 3ABN to others free of charge and they can sell and advertise their product such as books or cd's or whatever and make a profit. They are responsible for reporting and paying income tax on the profit. He can do this for anyone, that is except himself, his siblings, children, grandchildren, spouse and other disqualified persons.

There is a whoppin big fine for any of them doing this and this fine can also apply to the board members, managers and so on who allow it.

[Fran]

who cares?

Well, I was interested in those Dogs. My Chihuahua is worth Millions of Dollars! I did not find ONE Chihuahua listed!

My little 4-5 pound-er is a good hunter! She can find food every time, but she usually turns her nose up when she finds it!

She can find me 100% of the time. In fact, she sits in her bed everywhere I go. She has lots of small dog beds in the house. Even one on top of my desk. She can tell me when she needs food, a drink and when she needs to...Uh, you know.

How can they not list the smartest Dog in the world!

It goes to show, value is in the eye of the beholder!

Seriously, it matters because the results found in the Property Tax Lawsuit were not taken seriously by 3ABN Management. They still continue to do what they did back then. This should have an impact on their appeal.

It is also an indicator that maybe more items that needed to change, did not change at 3ABN since 2000-2001

All the state Dept. of Rev. would care about is whether "the two pastor’s offices, each measuring 14 feet by 18 feet, on the second floor of the administrative production center building, and a corresponding amount of land" were being used for profiteering, including receiving phone calls. The rest of the 3abn property can be used for all kinds of commercial activity...as it has in the past. They can sell, and resell, hunt'n dogs, or run charter flights out to NBA games across the states. It doesn't matter anymore. And of course no one would be surprised if that was happening.

==========

Nice find, lurker. In the ads, I noticed a Texas connection again...as in an earlier eBay account. Also a Oklahoma connection. Isn't Tommy in Oklahoma now?

BTW, speaking of hunting dogs, aren't we told that Esau was a hunter?

Texas, Oregon, California, Missouri, Tennessee, Florida, Kentucky ... The beat goes on.

[mozart]

aw heck fran....................., that aint nuthin'
i had a cat that could do all that and more. he walked on a leash, stayed on a chain when we camped and jumped in the van when we started packing up. he even flew on an airplane, sitting up in the seat with his arm on the armrest. ....*ppfffftt ! *


This is kimosobbie... better known as "The Sob-Meister"


just funnin' ya gurly. he-he but it is true.

[b]Well, I was interested in those Dogs. My Chihuahua is worth Millions of Dollars! I did not find ONE Chihuahua listed!

My little 4-5 pound-er is a good hunter! She can find food every time, but she usually turns her nose up when she finds it!

She can find me 100% of the time. In fact, she sits in her bed everywhere I go. She has lots of small dog beds in the house. Even one on top of my desk. She can tell me when she needs food, a drink and when she needs to...Uh, you know.

How can they not list the smartest Dog in the world!

It goes to show, value is in the eye of the beholder!

This post has been edited by mozart: May 30 2007, 01:30 PM

Attached thumbnail(s)