John Lomacang : Saturday's Campmeeting Sermonette, "main points" transcript Options

[maggiecttr]

Being the procrastinator I am, I just watched the tape I had made of 3ABN's Spring '07 campmeeting for Sabbath, May 26th.

Herewith, my transcription of John Lomacang's sermonette highlights:

He speaks about Satan opening the gates of Hell against Christ when Christ was on Earth, then:

"...Last year, on the heels of the Ten Commandments weekend -- and I want to say this in context -- the Gates of Hell were opened on 3ABN. And I want to say because we continue to go forward telling it like it is, the Gates of Hell are still opened against 3ABN. But what Satan did to Jesus was nothing compared to what Jesus did to Satan."

Speaks about the agricultural benefits of rain, then:

"So God does not bring rain to frighten us; God brings rain to prepare us for the planting of the seed, so that when the Latter Rain comes, we will be ready for the coming of the Lord. And so, my brethren, when it looks like it's not going to happen, there's God. When it looks like it's not possible at all, there's God. When your eyes contradict what your heart believes, there is God. I believe that God is allowing it to rain on 3ABN so that we can grow better than we have grown before--whaddoyousay? (amens from mostly elderly audience)...So I'm not concerned about the direction of 3ABN. I'm not concerned about the fight that we're fighting....I'm not concerned about that because Jeremiah the prophet said, 'Is there anything too hard for God?' And, brethren, God can do more with those with a lack of faith [sic] than God can do with those who think they can do all by their own strength...So I'm not concerned with the enemy that pursues us, because He said to the Church of Israel, 'The enemy that you see today, you'll see no more forever.' So I'm not concerned--and I'm going to say this clearly--(dismissive wave of hand) I'm not concerned about what the Internet says. I'm concerned about what God says. (Amens from audience; JL grins)
I'm not concerned about the sounds of the chariots from Egypt, because i know that the God that brought us out can block their way with His divine flame...So I'm not concerned about what I hear behind me -- I'm going to have my eyes fixed on the God that's ahead of me, whaddoyousay?

So they--they become fearful you know, there are times we don't know how it's going to happen --how it's going to pan out. But we gotta do what God has told us to do. You see, there are certain things that we have forgotten. You see, it was not Moses that delivered Israel from Egypt, it was God. It was not Pharoah that decided to let them go, it was God. It was not Moses that saved them from the hand of the Angel of Destruction, it was God. It was not Moses that gave them water or provided them bread, it was God. It was not Moses that protected them from the serpients [sic] and scorpons--err, scorpions---it was God. It was not the people (points to audience) who provided the finances for 3ABN -- it was God." (Amens from audience)

"...When you fail to see God's goodness, all you'll see is Satan's badness. Don't let fear dilute your faith. Don't be afraid--stand still and see the salvation of the Lord. I believe that God, in these last days, is going to pull off something that we could not possibly have imagined could happen with a deficit -- to be down is nothing to God, because God never runs out of resources. But God sometimes brings you to the point where your plate is empty, so that He can fill it to the brim and you'll know that when it happens, only God could've done it. Whaddoyousay? Sometimes God has to remind us that there is only one way to home. He said to the Children of Israel, 'Don't spend time looking in the rearview mirror; it's time to go forward. Whaddoyousay? Don't spend time in the Pit of Nostalgia and in the Maze of Mediocrity, wondering why things are not the way they used to be. The reason why they're not is because God has a different plan than He had for the past. God's gotta clear our mind from how it used to be, so that God can show us how it's going to be. So we look back at the last 22 years of 3ABN and we say,'Man, things were great!' But brethren, things are going to be better than they were before! God has not diminished. God is better than He has ever been. Whaddoyousay?


Talks about Israel having to dip their toes in the River of Faith before they could go forward, etc., then:

"...You gotta know when to stand still and you gotta know when to go forward. Stand still, and see God defeat your enemy, then go forward so that God can part the way, and every obstacle that appears to be designed to defeat you will become the very way which God pronounces your deliverance. And, so, my brother, obstacles don't move if the people of God just decide to stand still....I'm going to close with something that I feel is absolutely necessary to do: And that is to remind Brother Danny Shelton, Mollie Steenson, Shelly Quinn, Pastor C.A. Murray, Pastor John Dinzy and everybody that walks through the doors of 3ABN and those of you that always join us every day, to pray for 3ABN. It's time for us to stop looking to man and look unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith. This work is not going to be completed by 3ABN, God's going to use 3ABN in the completion process, but Paul the apostle says God will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness. So today, will you stand with me, as we do something that I believe we should always do when we hear the enemy coming behind us. We oughta pray. I believe that when the enemy hears us pray, he's got to stop at the command of God. And do something for me...join hands with the person next to you. And we're going to believe together that the fervent prayer of the righteous will avail much. (Prayer, including, "We've come too far to give the enemy credit for our defeats.." He also says, "...And so Father, today, give back to Danny Shelton the faith he had 23 years ago--give him back the vision he had when the night showed zero in the bank and You delivered the very next day. Help him to understand that before the asphalt was laid, the vision was laid. Before the antenna went up, the angels were ready to carry the message around the globe. Help him to look back to find courage to look forward. Help him to stand at his windows somedays and look out and see what mighty things that God has done. And, Father, may Danny give God the credit. May Danny give God the burden. May he give God the nights when his eyes are watered from the tears of uncertainty. And when he stands up and comes and wonders what to say to the people, may he say: 'The God whom I serve is able.' "

Whew! This took a long time of starting & stopping the tape, so I'm ready for a nap. If the sermonette seems disjointed at times, that's just the way he decided to present it, I guess.

Comments?

Blessings,
Maggie

[Pickle]

He speaks about Satan opening the gates of Hell against Christ when Christ was on Earth, then:

"...Last year, on the heels of the Ten Commandments weekend -- and I want to say this in context -- the Gates of Hell were opened on 3ABN. And I want to say because we continue to go forward telling it like it is, the Gates of Hell are still opened against 3ABN. But what Satan did to Jesus was nothing compared to what Jesus did to Satan."

Kind of encouraging, isn't it? If you tell it like it is, the devil gets mad, and the gates of hell open up. So if you tell it like it is and you get sued to try to shut you up, who's behind the lawsuit?

But I don't think it is safe to conclude that just because you're getting picked on that you have to be on the right side. If I give my body to be burned and have not love, I am nothing. So we can't take John's words in an absolute sense.

Another difficulty is that these folks consider no problems at all to be evidence of the blessing of God, and lots of problems to be evidence of their being on God's side. Sorry. We can't insulate ourselves in that way from ever considering whether we are in the faith or not. We have to be open to the possibility that we might be wrong.

After the 10 Commandments Weekend? Or does he mean after Danny remarried, or his remarriage became known?

[Artiste]

[


It sounds like Elder Lomacang is trying to enourage the others, and gives me the impression that some are in panic mode.

[Skyhook]

It sounds like the the 3abn crisis is escalating. I notice he prayed that Danny would give God the credit when he fixes everything for them. There must be a lot of anxiety among Danny and his inner circle for JL to talk like that.

This post has been edited by Skyhook: May 31 2007, 04:19 PM

[PeacefulBe]

Among other things said, JL prayed:

(Prayer, including, "We've come too far to give the enemy credit for our defeats.." He also says, "...And so Father, today, give back to Danny Shelton the faith he had 23 years ago--give him back the vision he had when the night showed zero in the bank and You delivered the very next day. Help him to understand that before the asphalt was laid, the vision was laid. Before the antenna went up, the angels were ready to carry the message around the globe. Help him to look back to find courage to look forward. Help him to stand at his windows somedays and look out and see what mighty things that God has done. And, Father, may Danny give God the credit. May Danny give God the burden. May he give God the nights when his eyes are watered from the tears of uncertainty. And when he stands up and comes and wonders what to say to the people, may he say: 'The God whom I serve is able.' "

EGW counsels:

"The prejudice which has arisen against us because we have reproved the wrongs that God has shown me existed, and the cry that has been raised of harshness and severity, are unjust. God bids us speak, and we will not be silent. If wrongs are apparent among His people, and if the servants of God pass on indifferent to them, they virtually sustain and justify the sinner, and are alike guilty and will just as surely receive the displeasure of God; for they will be made responsible for the sins of the guilty. In vision I have been pointed to many instances where the displeasure of God has been incurred by a neglect on the part of His servants to deal with the wrongs and sins existing among them. Those who have excused these wrongs have been thought by the people to be very amiable and lovely in disposition, simply because they shunned to discharge a plain Scriptural duty. The task was not agreeable to their feelings; therefore they avoided it. {3T 265.2}"

God says through Paul in 1Corinthians 6:1-6:

1 If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints? 2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4 Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, appoint as judges even men of little account in the church! 5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6 But instead, one brother goes to law against another—and this in front of unbelievers!

And then God further says through Paul in 1 Corinthians 6:7, 8:

7 The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8 Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers.

Do they not realize that in this year that is supposed to be "The Year of Victory", instead of trusting in God to fight their battles as JL said in his sermon, instead they decide, perhaps by following after the pattern of their true leader, to sue Bob and Gailon who have followed scriptural and EGW principle of our duty to reprove sin. If what we read in 1 Cor. 6:7,8 is to be trusted, they have now been completely defeated. Sad.

[steffan]

Among other things said, JL prayed:
EGW counsels:
God says through Paul in 1Corinthians 6:1-6:
And then God further says through Paul in 1 Corinthians 6:7, 8:


Do they not realize that in this year that is supposed to be "The Year of Victory", instead of trusting in God to fight their battles as JL said in his sermon, instead they decide, perhaps by following after the pattern of their true leader, to sue Bob and Gailon who have followed scriptural and EGW principle of our duty to reprove sin. If what we read in 1 Cor. 6:7,8 is to be trusted, they have now been completely defeated. Sad.

No PB. What is sad is that you or anyone that calls themselves christians would try and justify what these men have done. They have not followed any biblical principle and have went directly against SOP council by making unproven allegations public to the world. Remember that PB? Unproven?
For months you have been one of the main ones who continually try to quote EG and the Bible to try to "Make Right" what is 100% wrong. I have one question for you. As time goes on things begin to unfold, how will you feel, deep in your heart and soul, if you find out that you have been wrong? If you find that allegations against 3abn are unfounded and this has been a bitter campaign to bring 3abn down, how will you truly feel knowing that you have been a very vocal player in whatever damage has been done to the ministry? By all of your post history, it seems it has never occured to you or any of the others that you could be wrong. Maybe you need not only to think about that, but to dwell on it a little. The word tells us there will be an accountability for hurting God's work and his workers. What a precarious position you and others are putting yourselves in with no information other than what you hear and what you read. If you are wrong, you could be risking your very soul.

[Rosyroi]

No PB. What is sad is that you or anyone that calls themselves christians would try and justify what these men have done. They have not followed any biblical principle and have went directly against SOP council by making unproven allegations public to the world. Remember that PB? Unproven?
For months you have been one of the main ones who continually try to quote EG and the Bible to try to "Make Right" what is 100% wrong. I have one question for you. As time goes on things begin to unfold, how will you feel, deep in your heart and soul, if you find out that you have been wrong? If you find that allegations against 3abn are unfounded and this has been a bitter campaign to bring 3abn down, how will you truly feel knowing that you have been a very vocal player in whatever damage has been done to the ministry? By all of your post history, it seems it has never occured to you or any of the others that you could be wrong. Maybe you need not only to think about that, but to dwell on it a little. The word tells us there will be an accountability for hurting God's work and his workers. What a precarious position you and others are putting yourselves in with no information other than what you hear and what you read. If you are wrong, you could be risking your very soul.

Hang onto all those beliefs. You will need them.

edited for content...

Rosyroi

[Clay]

maybe John L is preaching what he is paid to preach.....

[Rosyroi]

maybe John L is preaching what he is paid to preach.....

Oh yea.... half his salary is paid by DannyShelton/3ABN.

You have revealed the problem.

Rosyroi

[Clay]

Oh yea.... half his salary is paid by DannyShelton/3ABN.

You have revealed the problem.

Rosyroi

there you go.....

[inga]

No PB. What is sad is that you or anyone that calls themselves christians would try and justify what these men have done. They have not followed any biblical principle and have went directly against SOP council by making unproven allegations public to the world.

Where've you been all this time, Steffan??

Bob Pickle has been absolutely scrupulous about verifying details to make sure he was not spreading mere rumors. And he went right to the source, to Danny himself, as the Bible counsels. It was when 3ABN folks started waffling and backing out of promises to "show the evidence" that Bob started to smell a rat. And he found a bunch of dead, stinking rats! Every one of them he identified with the backing of witnesses.

So, no, Bob did not make "unproven allegations"! Danny & the 3ABN board made "unproven allegations" against Linda. This seems to be a clear case of projecting one's own sins on others.

[sonshineonme]

Where've you been all this time, Steffan??

... This seems to be a clear case of projecting one's own sins on others.

Some specialize in projecting.

[PeacefulBe]

No PB. What is sad is that you or anyone that calls themselves christians would try and justify what these men have done. They have not followed any biblical principle and have went directly against SOP council by making unproven allegations public to the world. Remember that PB? Unproven?

The Bible counsels us about having two or three witnesses. Bob and Gailon do. The things posted on save3abn.com are not careless allegations, they have been carefully documented. Since those in leadership have turned a blind eye to the questionable behavior of some involved in the ministry that much of the world sees as "the face of Adventism", Bob and Gailon finally were convicted that action must be taken and answered the call.

For months you have been one of the main ones who continually try to quote EG and the Bible to try to "Make Right" what is 100% wrong.

When the Lord puts a burden on one's heart it is dangerous not to go forward as called. It is not something that I have done lightly or with any delight. Instead, I have attempted to prayerfully weigh the evidence I have seen from many sources, including from those who you consider your comrades in arms, and to state my opinions as carefully and in the most Christian manner that I possibly can. I have leaned heavily on God's word and Sister White as well to understand what I am to do here.

I have one question for you. As time goes on things begin to unfold, how will you feel, deep in your heart and soul, if you find out that you have been wrong? If you find that allegations against 3abn are unfounded and this has been a bitter campaign to bring 3abn down, how will you truly feel knowing that you have been a very vocal player in whatever damage has been done to the ministry? By all of your post history, it seems it has never occured to you or any of the others that you could be wrong. Maybe you need not only to think about that, but to dwell on it a little. The word tells us there will be an accountability for hurting God's work and his workers. What a precarious position you and others are putting yourselves in with no information other than what you hear and what you read. If you are wrong, you could be risking your very soul.

If the evidence that has been presented and upon which I have reached my personal opinions proves to be wrong I WILL REJOICE!!! If it is proven that this has been an unfounded, bitter campaign to bring 3abn down, I will turn my attention to those who are proven to have waged such a campaign.

On the other hand, if what has been alleged against some of those who have been in leadership positions at 3abn is true as it appears to be, perhaps they should be concerned about the accountability they will have for hurting God's work, His workers and for supporting the abuse of some of the very people He views as precious enough to give His only Begotten Son to die to redeem.

And the bottom line is still that it was Biblically WRONG for the leadership at 3abn, who claim to be presenting the undiluted truth to the world, to try to resolve the issues between themselves and Bob Pickle/Gailon Joy with a lawsuit. That is diluting the message.

This post has been edited by PeacefullyBewildered: May 31 2007, 11:23 PM

[mystery- man]

Steffon,

I don't think you understand, at least I believe you don't. I have not really seen anyone attacking 3abn but rather the sin of the leaders. I am always confused when I hear statements like what if you are wrong as tho Danny and the like have not been given ample time to respond to the alligations. I am also very troubled by the references made (likening Danny to Moses and the like). If Danny stepped down and there was a change in the board it would seem to me that the mission of 3abn would still go forward since the majority of programs are taped sermons and the like. I truly believe that most of the individuals posting hear would like to see 3abn continue but not Danny and the rest that seem to uphold a contrary priciple to what they are preaching. If you would simply give a open mind and eye you could see that the people closest to Danny (step daughter) (ex-wife) (brother) are the ones in question and that have spoken.

People would be acting out of stupidity if they did not act and would be accountable for a worse sin than that alleged if they stood idly by. Steffon, I have nothing personally against Danny but you would have to be crazy not to be able to see there is a definite problem there. What is so terrible about Danny stepping down, in the case of Linda that was acceptable even with out her getting all the information as to why. Why not just give Danny 150.000 dollars and let him step away that would be fair wouldn't it?


What would be wrong with a change of leadership is not the Lord the one really in charge?

[sonshineonme]

.....
What would be wrong with a change of leadership is not the Lord the one really in charge?

First of all, the leadership needs to make up their mind what the "Lord has told (or showed) me....". If they are going to communicate to the masses "the Lord has told (or showed) me....", knowing that no one can really argue with what the Lord tells them, obviously, they can still do as they please, even if this means that the "Lord" has changed His mind (you know, tell one person one thing, and another the opposite). How do they know it's the Lord anyway (ut oh, did I say that?)

So, how much can the Lord really be in charge if free-will human beings make their own choices based on their own wants...The Lord will have His way, one way or another, but, if some are unwilling to be in God's will, God will just use another option. It's happened this way for 6000 years. JMO.