Mckee Supports 3abn Through Selling Junk Foods, Is That Good? Options

[Pickle]

Regarding Sabbath keeping, the rule in the 4th is that our manservant and maidservant or stranger within our gates is not to work either. So the question is whether I have hired the person or not, whether they are doing work at my bidding and under my control or not, and whether they are on my turf or not.

Interesting that while the 4th prohibits us having our son or daughter work for us either on Sabbath, it doesn't include "husband" or "wife," which seems to acknowledge that each spouse is autonomous, and must decide for themselves rather than merely following the dictates of the other.

[Richard Sherwin]

In watching the McKee family, OD and his kids on down, they were very careful not to compromise with the Sabbath.

It's not seeing the logo that would be the problem it's that they were paying for that advertising to be run on the Sabbath. You will never see their TV ads on the Sabbath either. It's where they draw the line and I admire them for it. They have put their principles above their profits.

All Sabbath keepers have to decide where that line is in their own lives. It is between them and God.

Pickle that was a interesting take on the 4th commandment. I never thought about the wife working on the Sabbath. It's kind of interesting right now because my wife has a online class that is going to meet on Friday evening and she is trying to decide what to do. I've told her that is her decision. We are told to do good on the Sabbath, does that include learning to do good? Rhetorical question I know. We each have our line....

Richard

Yes, I'm sure all the legalities have been worked out, I'm just curious about the Biblical guidlines for having a logo on a racecar during Sabbath. No sabbath-keepers are working. Is the logo working? I'm sure there are reasons, but still seems kind of silly. Smacks a little bit of "look at what good sabbath keepers we are". I know I'm a former, but even if was I still SDA this would seem a bit ridiculous.

[Pickle]

In watching the Pickle that was a interesting take on the 4th commandment. I never thought about the wife working on the Sabbath. It's kind of interesting right now because my wife has a online class that is going to meet on Friday evening and she is trying to decide what to do. I've told her that is her decision. We are told to do good on the Sabbath, does that include learning to do good? Rhetorical question I know. We each have our line....

The rule God has given us is in Is. 58:13. But we need to recognize our incredible ability to rationalize and turn almost anything into God's pleasure and God's work when it really is our own.

If it's an online Bible study class or Sabbath School class, not a problem, but if it's an online accounting class, the answer is obvious. "Except your righteousness exceed that of" some of the folks we have been talking about who preach one thing and do another, "ye shall not enter the kingdom of God."

All too soon we shall be called to choose between obeying God and laying down our lives, and if we can't run with the footmen now, how shall we contend with the horses (Jer. 12:5)?

[watchbird]

In watching the McKee family, OD and his kids on down, they were very careful not to compromise with the Sabbath.

It's not seeing the logo that would be the problem it's that they were paying for that advertising to be run on the Sabbath. You will never see their TV ads on the Sabbath either. It's where they draw the line and I admire them for it. They have put their principles above their profits.
Richard

Hmmm.... does that mean that they run out and cover all the billboards where they have placed ads? Somehow there is "something wrong with this picture"...

But maybe that's just me........ ......

[pmorris68]

For the record...The school's name is not Southern Missionary College. It's Southern Adventist University.

We all will see Jesus for ourselves. We will all have to given an account for our behavior. God will take care of this in the end.

[Richard Sherwin]

I'm not sure I've ever seen a Little Debbie bill board. In any case it's their company and they of course can do that which they wish. The car they can have control over. My guess is that with billboards they have no control over.. Their company, their business how they want to run it. Kind of like Danny and 3abn

Richard

Hmmm.... does that mean that they run out and cover all the billboards where they have placed ads? Somehow there is "something wrong with this picture"...

But maybe that's just me........ ......

This post has been edited by Richard Sherwin: Jun 29 2007, 05:14 PM

[Richard Sherwin]

Nope not accounting. It's learning how to care for animals in a animal hospital setting. I suppose this is one of those gray areas eh? Gray that is except for those who have a opinion I still have no idea what she has decided.

Richard

The rule God has given us is in Is. 58:13. But we need to recognize our incredible ability to rationalize and turn almost anything into God's pleasure and God's work when it really is our own.

If it's an online Bible study class or Sabbath School class, not a problem, but if it's an online accounting class, the answer is obvious. "Except your righteousness exceed that of" some of the folks we have been talking about who preach one thing and do another, "ye shall not enter the kingdom of God."

All too soon we shall be called to choose between obeying God and laying down our lives, and if we can't run with the footmen now, how shall we contend with the horses (Jer. 12:5)?

[Reflection]

Nope not accounting. It's learning how to care for animals in a animal hospital setting. I suppose this is one of those gray areas eh? Gray that is except for those who have a opinion I still have no idea what she has decided.

Richard

Richard: I'd be happy to communicate with your wife about this. If you send me a message, I can send you my regular email address. I've taken online classes and also have an M.Ed from a distance ed program that required two week residencies that included Sabbath. Just a quick overview of how I dealt with this:

Each situation is totally different. For example, the residencies had an opening meeting on Friday evenings. Depending on the time of year, it may have been Sabbath or not. Since I had attended them on Fridays before the winter early Sabbaths, I knew that it wasn't really essential. Because of this, I requested to be excused based on my religious beliefs and the program director did not hesitate to honor that request. There were no negative repurcussions. There were some workshops that were held on Sabbath, but I was excused from those also. I did all the work, but not on Sabbath.

I did support my fellow students on Sabbath afternoons when they did their thesis presentations, and I prayed that the graduation would not be held on Sabbath, and the Lord worked that out.

My online classes were not real time, so I could check in whenever I wanted. Even though I did not do the work on Sabbath, I still went to the discussion board to respond to classmates. Since my program is special education, there are many topics that come up that are definitely Sabbath worthy.

Perhaps the real time classes can be taped. Or perhaps some of the classes are "Sabbath worthy." Perhaps some classes can be postponed to a semester that provides another time option.

Anyway, just a top of my head response from an exhausted student. Let me know if she'd like to bounce ideas around.

[Richard Sherwin]

I like your term "Sabbath worthy". Thats how she finally made up her mind tonight. This is a class about animal care in the clinic and there is not much more worthy topic than the care of God's creatures IMO. She's taking it. It's not like it's for college credit or anything just a friendly class her vet/boss wanted her to take.

When she was working on her masters she rarely ever had Sabbath problems and the few times she did the professors were very accommodating.

I appreciate your time and input. You post reminded me of the song by The Heralds that has the line "your so heavenly minded you're no earthly good". We have to be practical in our Sabbath keeping, your post reflects that.

Richard

Richard: I'd be happy to communicate with your wife about this. If you send me a message, I can send you my regular email address. I've taken online classes and also have an M.Ed from a distance ed program that required two week residencies that included Sabbath. Just a quick overview of how I dealt with this:

Each situation is totally different. For example, the residencies had an opening meeting on Friday evenings. Depending on the time of year, it may have been Sabbath or not. Since I had attended them on Fridays before the winter early Sabbaths, I knew that it wasn't really essential. Because of this, I requested to be excused based on my religious beliefs and the program director did not hesitate to honor that request. There were no negative repurcussions. There were some workshops that were held on Sabbath, but I was excused from those also. I did all the work, but not on Sabbath.

I did support my fellow students on Sabbath afternoons when they did their thesis presentations, and I prayed that the graduation would not be held on Sabbath, and the Lord worked that out.

My online classes were not real time, so I could check in whenever I wanted. Even though I did not do the work on Sabbath, I still went to the discussion board to respond to classmates. Since my program is special education, there are many topics that come up that are definitely Sabbath worthy.

Perhaps the real time classes can be taped. Or perhaps some of the classes are "Sabbath worthy." Perhaps some classes can be postponed to a semester that provides another time option.

Anyway, just a top of my head response from an exhausted student. Let me know if she'd like to bounce ideas around.

[Observer]

The rule God has given us is in Is. 58:13. But we need to recognize our incredible ability to rationalize and turn almost anything into God's pleasure and God's work when it really is our own.

If it's an online Bible study class or Sabbath School class, not a problem, but if it's an online accounting class, the answer is obvious. "Except your righteousness exceed that of" some of the folks we have been talking about who preach one thing and do another, "ye shall not enter the kingdom of God."

All too soon we shall be called to choose between obeying God and laying down our lives, and if we can't run with the footmen now, how shall we contend with the horses (Jer. 12:5)?

I will make some general comments that have come to my minnd as I have read what has been posted.

1) The issues of Sabbath observance is one that God has not spelled out in great detail. In many aspects God expects the individual to deal with the issues, and to make decisions based in part on their individual spiritual maturity. In any cse, our spiritual life shoudl be a life of growth. Where we are spitiually today should not be where we are tomorrow.

2) It is clear to me that the issue is whether or not the work is acceptable to do on the Sabbath, and not who is doing the work. The Sabbath Commandment tells us not to hire someone to do work on the Sabbath that we cannot do ourselves. If it is right to be done on the Sabbath, it is right for me to do it.

3) The issue is not, in my thinking, whether or not I am paid for the work I do on the Sabbath. If it is right for me to do it on the Sabbath, it is right for me to be compensated for doing such.

NOTE: The story is told of a health-care institution that once decided not to bill people for care provided on the Sabbath. The community soon figured this out, and immediately everyone wanted to make appointments for care on the Sabbath. The Sabbath soon became the day with the greatest workload of any day.

4) A fundamental issue for me is how one takes ancient Biblical texts and applies them to the 21st Cent.

Example: Is running an electrical generating plant an essential, life-saving service? If so, what about the Sabbath. I could also mention water treatment plants, and much more.

5) Comments: We may, as humans, rationalize our actions. Yet, I often think that we can go to the other extreme. Let me give some examples of which I am personally aware:

a) A SDA Church decides to have a "nature walk" in a State park that has been left in its natural state. It formally requests that the park assign a Ranger to lead the walk on the Sabbath afternoon. The park assigns that task to a SDA member of that congregation. The congregation attempts to discipline him for working on the Sabbath.

In the above case, the members are advised to park on the road leading to the park entrance, so that they will not have to pay the fee on the Sabbath. They do so, and effectively block traffic as the road is narrow.

c) In another country, the daughter of my Army Commander is injured in an automobile accident on a Friday night. The local paramedic who saves her life is a SDA. The Conference President hears about it, and attempts to discipline him for working on the Sabbath becasue: 1) A non-SDA could have worked that night, 2) He was not a physician, who could have worked. He was only a paramedic.

d) At campmeetings, people exchange "script" for milk (and other such) on the Sabbath. But, they are not allowed to exchange money for the same. The camp store is open on the Sabbath, but only for peple who have previously purchased script. Yes, it might be stated that they are not actually purchsing the milk and other such on the Sabbath. They are only taking possession on the Sabbath of the item that they already own. No. That does not fly. When they previously purchased the script, their name was not placed on an individual carton of milk. They are not picking up a previously identified jug of milk. The are simply entering into the business transaction of purchasing the jug of milk, on the Sabbath for script, instead of money.

I could go on, but I will quite now.

By the way; for those who would like geater detail in spelling out what one can and cannot do on the Sabbath, I would suggest that you review the books that have been written for Jewish people that do noting mroe than tell them what they can and cannot do on the Sabbath. They are extensive.

6) One last comment: My written qualifying examinations for my graduate work in psychology was scheduled for a Sabbath. Everyone was expected to take them on that day. I simply asked to be scheduled for another day. My request was immediately granted.


This post has been edited by Observer: Jun 30 2007, 06:48 AM

[Richard Sherwin]

That script thing has always amused me. You are simply exchanging US currency for Adventist currency.

I remember years ago an advice column in the Review where it was suggested that for long Sabbath trips it was wrong to pay for fuel with cash but a credit card was ok. Huh?

The state park thing. I wonder how the park felt about a church cheating them out of the entrance fee? I've known people who will drive hours just to buy a entrance ticket, just so they wouldn't have to spend money on the Sabbath. And we say the Pharisee's were bad? I wonder how God feel about us wasting our money like that?

I've come to the conclusion that it's not the spending of the money on the Sabbath, but what you spend it on.

In any case personally I'm a very strong believer in the Sabbath, just as much as I am in not committing murder. I'm just glad that God leaves it up to us to decide how we keep it Holy. We as individuals can keep it however we wish, but should not impose those rules on others.

Richard

I will make some general comments that have come to my minnd as I have read what has been posted.

1) The issues of Sabbath observance is one that God has not spelled out in great detail. In many aspects God expects the individual to deal with the issues, and to make decisions based in part on their individual spiritual maturity. In any cse, our spiritual life shoudl be a life of growth. Where we are spitiually today should not be where we are tomorrow.

2) It is clear to me that the issue is whether or not the work is acceptable to do on the Sabbath, and not who is doing the work. The Sabbath Commandment tells us not to hire someone to do work on the Sabbath that we cannot do ourselves. If it is right to be done on the Sabbath, it is right for me to do it.

3) The issue is not, in my thinking, whether or not I am paid for the work I do on the Sabbath. If it is right for me to do it on the Sabbath, it is right for me to be compensated for doing such.

NOTE: The story is told of a health-care institution that once decided not to bill people for care provided on the Sabbath. The community soon figured this out, and immediately everyone wanted to make appointments for care on the Sabbath. The Sabbath soon became the day with the greatest workload of any day.

4) A fundamental issue for me is how one takes ancient Biblical texts and applies them to the 21st Cent.

Example: Is running an electrical generating plant an essential, life-saving service? If so, what about the Sabbath. I could also mention water treatment plants, and much more.

5) Comments: We may, as humans, rationalize our actions. Yet, I often think that we can go to the other extreme. Let me give some examples of which I am personally aware:

a) A SDA Church decides to have a "nature walk" in a State park that has been left in its natural state. It formally requests that the park assign a Ranger to lead the walk on the Sabbath afternoon. The park assigns that task to a SDA member of that congregation. The congregation attempts to discipline him for working on the Sabbath.

In the above case, the members are advised to park on the road leading to the park entrance, so that they will not have to pay the fee on the Sabbath. They do so, and effectively block traffic as the road is narrow.

c) In another country, the daughter of my Army Commander is injured in an automobile accident on a Friday night. The local paramedic who saves her life is a SDA. The Conference President hears about it, and attempts to discipline him for working on the Sabbath becasue: 1) A non-SDA could have worked that night, 2) He was not a physician, who could have worked. He was only a paramedic.

d) At campmeetings, people exchange "script" for milk (and other such) on the Sabbath. But, they are not allowed to exchange money for the same. The camp store is open on the Sabbath, but only for peple who have previously purchased script. Yes, it might be stated that they are not actually purchsing the milk and other such on the Sabbath. They are only taking possession on the Sabbath of the item that they already own. No. That does not fly. When they previously purchased the script, their name was not placed on an individual carton of milk. They are not picking up a previously identified jug of milk. The are simply entering into the business transaction of purchasing the jug of milk, on the Sabbath for script, instead of money.

I could go on, but I will quite now.

By the way; for those who would like geater detail in spelling out what one can and cannot do on the Sabbath, I would suggest that you review the books that have been written for Jewish people that do noting mroe than tell them what they can and cannot do on the Sabbath. They are extensive.

6) One last comment: My written qualifying examinations for my graduate work in psychology was scheduled for a Sabbath. Everyone was expected to take them on that day. I simply asked to be scheduled for another day. My request was immediately granted.

[Johann]

The facts are, though, that McKee foods does not produce ONLY snack cakes (junk food). They do in fact have "healthy foods" divisions... which produce granola products, cereals, etc.

But the bulk of their business is still sugar, sugar, sugar... in one form or another. Sad......

It was not until I had read this that I checked to see where my granola, bought in a local grocery store here in Iceland, was made. It says "Heartland Brands, Collegedale, TN." It is some of the sweetest granola that I have ever tasted, containing both evaporated cane juice, syrup, and molasses, so I had decided to get another brand next time, containing less sweeteners.

[runner4him]

It was not until I had read this that I checked to see where my granola, bought in a local grocery store here in Iceland, was made. It says "Heartland Brands, Collegedale, TN." It is some of the sweetest granola that I have ever tasted, containing both evaporated cane juice, syrup, and molasses, so I had decided to get another brand next time, containing less sweeteners.

I have an easy, delicious, crunchy, no refined sugar or honey or molasses granola to knock your socks off. You mix it up and stick it in the oven bake it or leave it overnight on the lowest oven setting and it is done in the morning.

[PrincessDrRe]

No the beer companies are not the ones causing the deaths. If you think they are then are not also the farmers who sell them the hops responsible? How about the bee keepers who produce honey that mead is made out of? Or the electrical companies who sell the electricity to the beer companies?

So where do you draw the line? Do we expect beer companies to quit making beer, cigarette companies to quit making cigarettes. Burger King to quit making burgers? McKee's to quit making LD's or.....well the list of what is bad for us has no end.

As long as the product is legal it is up to the consumer to use self control in limiting the intake of the products they consume. If I eat too many Big Macs whose fault is that? Mine or Micky D's? If I eat a box of Swiss Rolls every day should I be able to sue McKee Foods when I have a heart attack.

Where does responsibility start/stop? SDA's and other "legalists" will chain responsibility far and wide. I can make a chain that can assign blame for just about anything to anyone on this board with just enough information about their job or position. It stops with your hands and your body. That's MHO.

If I'm not mistaken, Little Debbie sponsors a NASCAR car (not sure which one) and they have to cover up the logo during sabbath hours. Seems odd since you can buy them 24/7 all over the country. Seems just a tad hypocritical. You can buy our products on sabbath, but you can't look at our logo?

That's a hot mess on toast. Just like the latter I read about script. Andrews University will not allow you to pay "cash" for your food in the Cafe' - but you can "charge it to your account" or use a credit card. That's so petty and legalist. I won't even go in the Cafe' on Sabbath due to this legalism rhetoric!

[Richard Sherwin]

Yup, our bees pollinate blueberries used for blueberry wine so I'm responsible for a drunk killing someone.

Taking a credit card but not cash? Can we spell Pharisee?

Richard

Where does responsibility start/stop? SDA's and other "legalists" will chain responsibility far and wide. I can make a chain that can assign blame for just about anything to anyone on this board with just enough information about their job or position. It stops with your hands and your body. That's MHO.
That's a hot mess on toast. Just like the latter I read about script. Andrews University will not allow you to pay "cash" for your food in the Cafe' - but you can "charge it to your account" or use a credit card. That's so petty and legalist. I won't even go in the Cafe' on Sabbath due to this legalism rhetoric!