Who Is Asi?, Is ASI connected to the SDA Church? Options

[PeacefulBe]

Never seen or heard from again, like Wycliffe's bones?

Well, if that was their strategy, they certainly should have considered that The Word, just like Wycliffe's bone dust carried out to sea, spread throughout the world!

[runner4him]

Lurker, I don't know any ASI members and I'm sure they are fine Christian gentlemen, but from the description, it sounds dreadfully elitist. It almost sounds like an Adventist version of the Bohemian Club.
If you had told them that your little business is just a hobby but you have a very LARGE amount of money, would they have treated you differently?.

Dear friends of mine first told me about ASI and encouraged me for several years to attend with them. They were under the impression that in order to attend you needed to be sponsored by an ASI member. It never worked out until the meetings were held in my home State. The high cost of attending the Convention with the cost of air fare is prohibitive for the average person. (The whole convention, hotel expense, meals, meetings is quite expensive) Even with the Convention in my home state it was a financial burden for our family for the two years we attended. As a member you do get a discount but we did not qualify to be members either. I thought it was worth it at the time as we were impressed and inspired with the meetings, lay people speaking, and all the programming for the young people. They only took up one offering and raised about $3,500,000 on Sabbath. We were amazed at the offering and we were blessed by the testimonies of everyone who spoke. It was like going to a camp meeting for the very elite and the only thing that saddened me was the realization that the majority of our people would never be able to attend due to the cost and we were not going to be able to repeat the experience each year.

Now I look at the whole thing differently..... After seeing what has happened with 3ABN, their ties to ASI who continues to pour a greater amount of money into that ministry each year even though there are questions about integrity and moral issues.... I wonder how and why the support continues.

I may be wrong but I see power in the hands of a few wealthy influential business men, I see money going into one coffer while it is diminished in another (namely the church), I see the little guy inspired for the moment deciding where to put those offerings...(there is only so much money to be given), I see a big organization built up more powerful than the one we all have free membership in. (the church)

I now have more appreciation for that one (the church) I belong to where camp meetings are within the reach of all, the one where we have unity (imperfect as it is), the one where checks and balances are in place, the one where leaders although imperfect deserve our support , the place where I have found most leaders to have a teachable spirit.

I may be way off base but I have so many concerns looking back at the silent force that has been at work....moving quietly while we were unaware....this whole thing with 3ABN....the pedestal....the dependence on others to do the soul winning....the merger with 3ABN that may happen placing Amazing Facts out from under the umbrella of the church, the merger with Weimar....the turning of a blind eye to open sin in high places. Where have we been? Maybe we were all asleep. It is all sobering.

This post has been edited by runner4him: Jul 8 2007, 08:32 PM

[Pickle]

My husband was in business for himself. We asked about joining ASI at that time and found out that we did not have enough employees.

At some point I was under the impression that you had to have at least one employee other than yourself, but another level of membership allows business owners who have no employees other than themselves to also be members. See http://asiministries.org/article.php?id=30.

I remember thinking we would feel very out of place with all those moneyed people.

People attending the conventions from self-supporting ministries are generally anything but moneyed.

[lurker]

Whoever we asked didn't tell us that. Maybe they didn't know it themselves.

[Pickle]

Perhaps they changed the membership requirements at some point by adding a second level of membership. But I don't know.

[reader]

ASI has a membership for individuals. I have a business but I am the only employee. So I joined as a associate member or something like that, not a as a business. I think that there are many who go to the ASI convention that do not have very much money. I know some that stay at motel 6 etc.

I have been to about six conventions around the country. When they started getting offerings in the millions of dollars I asked how much of the offering came from the big donors, Mckee etc and was told that about 70% of the offering came from them.

Some thing that did not care for was when the offering goal was say 800K, way back in the 90's and the offering came in a 1.2 million, I can never remember being told how the other 400k was spent.

The ASI investigation of 3ABN really turned me off toward ASI.

[Johann]

Although I have never been a member of ASI I attended one convention in Europe as a representative of 3ABN which is a member. I was greatly impressed with the enthusiasm and mission spirit seen there and the talks and sermons. Folkenberg and Goldstein were among the featured speakers.

The one discord I noticed there was voiced by the president of the ASI in one of the European countries in attendance. He stated that hardly any of the SDA businesses in his country could afford to attend due to the high costs involved. He deplored that this diminished the effectiveness of ASI

So it might be true that ASI is an association of the wealthy and the mighty who endeavor to use their funds to influence the policies and mission of the Seventh-day Adventist Church?

Does this mean that the votes of the regular members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church count less than the powerful ASI? Is this true Christian democracy?

[rwelchcrs]

Dear friends of mine first told me about ASI and encouraged me for several years to attend with them. They were under the impression that in order to attend you needed to be sponsored by an ASI member. It never worked out until the meetings were held in my home State. The high cost of attending the Convention with the cost of air fare is prohibitive for the average person. (The whole convention, hotel expense, meals, meetings is quite expensive) Even with the Convention in my home state it was a financial burden for our family for the two years we attended. As a member you do get a discount but we did not qualify to be members either. I thought it was worth it at the time as we were impressed and inspired with the meetings, lay people speaking, and all the programming for the young people. They only took up one offering and raised about $3,500,000 on Sabbath. We were amazed at the offering and we were blessed by the testimonies of everyone who spoke. It was like going to a camp meeting for the very elite and the only thing that saddened me was the realization that the majority of our people would never be able to attend due to the cost and we were not going to be able to repeat the experience each year.

Now I look at the whole thing differently..... After seeing what has happened with 3ABN, their ties to ASI who continues to pour a greater amount of money into that ministry each year even though there are questions about integrity and moral issues.... I wonder how and why the support continues.

I may be wrong but I see power in the hands of a few wealthy influential business men, I see money going into one coffer while it is diminished in another (namely the church), I see the little guy inspired for the moment deciding where to put those offerings...(there is only so much money to be given), I see a big organization built up more powerful than the one we all have free membership in. (the church)

I now have more appreciation for that one (the church) I belong to where camp meetings are within the reach of all, the one where we have unity (imperfect as it is), the one where checks and balances are in place, the one where leaders although imperfect deserve our support , the place where I have found most leaders to have a teachable spirit.

I may be way off base but I have so many concerns looking back at the silent force that has been at work....moving quietly while we were unaware....this whole thing with 3ABN....the pedestal....the dependence on others to do the soul winning....the merger with 3ABN that may happen placing Amazing Facts out from under the umbrella of the church, the merger with Weimar....the turning of a blind eye to open sin in high places. Where have we been? Maybe we were all asleep. It is all sobering.

runner4him, you have eloquently hit an answering chord with me, because I've been thinking in similar lines for the past few days since learning of the pending ASI-sponsored incorporation of ministries. A lot of money, a lot of control, a lot of influence, will be shifted to a very few privileged individuals.

Is this what the church needs?

[Rosyroi]

runner4him, you have eloquently hit an answering chord with me, because I've been thinking in similar lines for the past few days since learning of the pending ASI-sponsored incorporation of ministries. A lot of money, a lot of control, a lot of influence, will be shifted to a very few privileged individuals.

Is this what the church needs?

With modern teck today we can watch it unfold before our very eyes...even if our eyes are half closed in laodecean style.


Rosyroi

This post has been edited by Rosyroi: Jul 11 2007, 09:39 PM

[Observer]

Never seen or heard from again, like Wycliffe's bones?

I would say that you are expected to not believe the rest of what they say unless they can support their claims with some sort of shred of evidence.

Notice how page 13 of the lawsuit makes the claim that Gailon and I have published: "f. Danny Shelton laundered money through 3ABN donations to Cherie Peters, in order to make payments that had been expressly prohibited by the 3ABN Board of directors." Now since the lawsuit makes no complaints about email, only about postings on forums and Save3ABN.com, they will have a hard time proving that one, since neither Gailon nor I was the one who published that one.

If you want to read the post, see http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?a...&pid=174130. Gregory Matthews was the one who posted it, not Gailon or myself.

And I know for a fact that there is a source who has made some sort of claim along those lines. Now if reporters can't report what sources tell them in America anymore, are we returning to the days of the Middle Ages? And is this lawsuit paving the way?

Bob, you are I are in agreement in regard to many things. But, I must challenge your statement above about me. I invite all to check your cited source.l

1) At that source, I posted a letter that Mr. Joy sent to someone else.

2) The reference to Cherie Peters consited of one sentence in Mr. Joy's letter.

3) In no place in my post did I make any comment in regard to laundered money in order to make payments that had been expressly prohibited by the 3-ABN Board.

4) I invite all reading this message to check Bob's reference to see if I made any such comment. While you are doing that, decide if you think that Mr. Joy made any such refference.

5) Bob, your comment about me is 100 per-cent wrong.

For those of you who do not wish to go to Bob's citation, here is the referenced statment in full:

Did you get your hands on any proof regarding ABN payments to Cherie Peters for Brandi's income?

Bob, again, nothing was said in regard to laundering money, or 3-ABN Board action. You may believe that the 3-ABN Board prohibited such. You may be correct? You may believe that such was laundered. You may be correct? But, you are highly inaccurate in reading what may by your belief into the posted statement, and publicly posting what may be your belief as a statement of mine. That is exactly what your posted comment appears to say about me, and the typical person reading your comment would believe that you said such about me.

This post has been edited by Observer: Jul 14 2007, 05:09 AM

[calvin]

runner4him, you have eloquently hit an answering chord with me, because I've been thinking in similar lines for the past few days since learning of the pending ASI-sponsored incorporation of ministries. A lot of money, a lot of control, a lot of influence, will be shifted to a very few privileged individuals.

Is this what the church needs?

Hmm, but then you have a Black woman in Debbie Young who I believe is of no financial means to influence anybody as the President. Is she more of a figure head?

[runner4him]

Here is a response from ASI sent to a certain person regarding questions raised about ASI monies going to 3ABN - a "non-denominational" organization. The ASI amount slated this year to go to 3ABN is $150,000 - the second largest amount. $190,000 goes to Youth for Jesus, then 3ABN, then the next amount is $75,000 and so forth.

After this letter was received I was told the ASI amounts are no longer listed on their web site. Before you could see all the information as to who will/has received what. Now it is not available. Has anyone asked ASI any questions about their funds going to a non-denominational group?

****** <************@nad.adventist.org>
Jul 11 (3 days ago)

*********

Thank you for your message regarding the status of 3ABN. The matter
will be referred to the ASI board for consideration.

************
ASI Communication


>>> <************************> **************** >>>
*******************************************

message: I have been a staunch ASI supporter and donor for several
years. I am troubled by the rumors I have heard about 3ABN, the
impounded law suit they filed against church members. When the judge
lifted the impoundment and I discovered along with many others that 3ABN
claims to be non-denominational organization preaching a
non-denominational message I was shocked. How can this be? You give a
huge amount to 3ABN each year and I do not understand how you can be
supporting a non-denominational ministry. If the wording in the law suit
is a lie then I am just as concerned. The whole thing is a mess as far
as I am concerned. I hope you will reconsider your support for 3ABN or I
for one will not be supporting you either.

*********

[PeacefulBe]

Here is a response from ASI sent to a certain person regarding questions raised about ASI monies going to 3ABN - a "non-denominational" organization. The ASI amount slated this year to go to 3ABN is $150,000 - the second largest amount. $190,000 goes to Youth for Jesus, then 3ABN, then the next amount is $75,000 and so forth.

After this letter was received I was told the ASI amounts are no longer listed on their web site. Before you could see all the information as to who will/has received what. Now it is not available. Has anyone asked ASI any questions about their funds going to a non-denominational group?

R4H,

This is an interesting development. Any clue how we can see this for ourselves on the ASI website? I googled but couldn't find a link to them. Will keep checking, though.

I couldn't find any grant list on their website.

This post has been edited by PeacefullyBewildered: Jul 14 2007, 05:46 AM

[Panama_Pete]

In no place in my post did I make any comment in regard to laundered money in order to make payments that had been expressly prohibited by the 3-ABN Board... I invite all reading this message to check Bob's reference to see if I made any such comment. While you are doing that, decide if you think that Mr. Joy made any such refference.

I may be wrong -- since I can't be everywhere at once -- but the only place I recall seeing "laundered money" mentioned is in the 3ABN lawsuit by the plaintiff(s):

Page 13

"Danny Shelton laundered money through 3ABN donations to Cherie Peters, in order to make payments that had been expressly prohibited by the 3ABN Board of directors."

It mentions [sic] Cherie Peters. Apparently, this is meant to refer to Cheri Peters, and, in actuality, True Step Ministries, Inc.

As far as I recall, a donation from one non-profit organization to another non-profit organization is not "laundered" money. But, since the plaintiff's lawyers can't seem to be bothered with the spelling of the woman's name, we can't really place too much weight on the rest of the finer details, either, can we?

[Shepherdswife]

R4H,

This is an interesting development. Any clue how we can see this for ourselves on the ASI website? I googled but couldn't find a link to them. Will keep checking, though.

I couldn't find any grant list on their website.

Very weird! I was on there just a few days ago and there were amounts beside every project. Now there are not. They still have the descriptions but not how much they are giving them. Here is the link to the list--if I have done it correctly.

http://asiministries.org/article.php?id=130