The Highest-ranking Adventist Executives In North America Options

[Artiste]

Oh it's been that for some time. However, don't discount everyone at the top. I personally know some people who currently are, or have been at the top. They don't all see the church as some corporate business. Some of them really are about the gospel and have a passion for the ministry. Some of them actually come out of the office and go "down" to where the people are. It's easy for us to focus on the negative aspects of leadership.

I think I should say at this point that I am totally committed to the Adventist church as an institution and a movement led by God. I believe also that God controls ultimately who is in charge of His organization.

As Paul said after he was chastised for lashing out at Ananias, "I did not realize that he was the high priest; for it is written: 'Do not speak evil about the ruler of your people'."

Are the president of the GC and the president of the NAD our rulers? Israel was a theocracy, and as such the ruling segment had civil authority as well as religious--at least until the Romans took over. I don't know the answer to that question. In any case, I don't in theory believe in saying evil things about our church leadership.

Regarding the confirmation by Don Schneider and Jan Paulsen two days ago that they are in favor of the merger between 3abn and Amazing Facts, I am afraid that they are being swayed by some temporal concerns--mainly that of going against the will of a powerful and well-connected man. I don't like to see this happening, if in reality that is the reason.


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[Panama_Pete]

I think I should say at this point that I am totally committed to the Adventist church as an institution and a movement led by God. I believe also that God controls ultimately who is in charge of His organization.

As Paul said after he was chastised for lashing out at Ananias, "I did not realize that he was the high priest; for it is written: 'Do not speak evil about the ruler of your people'."

Are the president of the GC and the president of the NAD our rulers? Israel was a theocracy, and as such the ruling segment had civil authority as well as religious--at least until the Romans took over. I don't know the answer to that question. In any case, I don't in theory believe in saying evil things about our church leadership.

Regarding the confirmation by Don Schneider and Jan Paulsen two days ago that they are in favor of the merger between 3abn and Amazing Facts, I am afraid that they are being swayed by some temporal concerns--mainly that of going against the will of a powerful and well-connected man. I don't like to see this happening, if in reality that is the reason.
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Sometimes politicians speak favorably about a project they don't endorse simply because they don't want to go down in history as being the project killer. So, they speak favorably about the project, so if it ultimately fails, they don't get the blame for what happened -- during the next election.

This post has been edited by Panama_Pete: Jul 20 2007, 10:37 PM

[Artiste]

Sometimes politicians speak favorably about a project they don't endorse simply because they don't want to go down in history as being the project killer. So, they speak favorably about the project, so if it ultimately fails, they don't get the blame for what happened -- during the next election.

Oh...right...the next election.



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This post has been edited by Artiste: Jul 20 2007, 11:34 PM

[SoulEspresso]

I don't think this is nearly as bad as all that. I do wish the GC would take a more public stand on 3ABN than they have, but if an AF-3ABN merger means 3ABN has to follow denominational standards viz employment and financial auditing, that could be a good thing.

If it takes AF out of the denominational orbit, I think we can agree that's a bad thing.

These guys at the top used to be pastors, remember, and pastors tend to bend over backwards to keep from hurting people--not always resulting in the best stands or actions, but perhaps fairly good motives.

IOW these guys aren't perfect, but we know so little about what they told AF about the merger that it's premature for us to paint them with the same brush that Danny & Co have splattered all over themselves at 3ABN.

Schneider and Paulsen could be complicit; they could be taking a stand. We just don't know yet. Pray for the best ...

This post has been edited by SoulEspresso: Jul 21 2007, 12:06 AM

[Artiste]

I don't think this is nearly as bad as all that. I do wish the GC would take a more public stand on 3ABN than they have, but if an AF-3ABN merger means 3ABN has to follow denominational standards viz employment and financial auditing, that could be a good thing.

If it takes AF out of the denominational orbit, I think we can agree that's a bad thing.

These guys at the top used to be pastors, remember, and pastors tend to bend over backwards to keep from hurting people--not always resulting in the best stands or actions, but perhaps fairly good motives.

IOW these guys aren't perfect, but we know so little about what they told AF about the merger that it's premature for us to paint them with the same brush that Danny & Co have splattered all over themselves at 3ABN.

Schneider and Paulsen could be complicit; they could be taking a stand. We just don't know yet. Pray for the best ...

SoulEspresso, I am basing my comments on a number of posts on this board over the last several years delineating the behind-the-scenes activities of the individual in question as well as my own experiences as a past member of ASI.


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[PeacefulBe]

I don't think this is nearly as bad as all that. I do wish the GC would take a more public stand on 3ABN than they have, but if an AF-3ABN merger means 3ABN has to follow denominational standards viz employment and financial auditing, that could be a good thing.

If it takes AF out of the denominational orbit, I think we can agree that's a bad thing.

These guys at the top used to be pastors, remember, and pastors tend to bend over backwards to keep from hurting people--not always resulting in the best stands or actions, but perhaps fairly good motives.

IOW these guys aren't perfect, but we know so little about what they told AF about the merger that it's premature for us to paint them with the same brush that Danny & Co have splattered all over themselves at 3ABN.

Schneider and Paulsen could be complicit; they could be taking a stand. We just don't know yet. Pray for the best ...

SE,

I'm not sure if this statement from NCC President Jim Pedersen, Chairman of the Board at Amazing Facts, would completely qualify as taking "AF out ot he denominational orbit" but is does show a distinct change in the relationship:

5. When Amazing Facts merges with 3abn, they will no longer be under the NCC umbrella. That relationship will cease.

Link to full post from Jim Pedersen on AF/3abn merger

Artiste said:
SoulEspresso, I am basing my comments on a number of posts on this board over the last several years delineating the behind-the-scenes activities of the individual in question as well as my own experiences as a past member of ASI.

Artiste,

Your personal experience, when combined with those of others shared here, becomes a powerful testimony.



PB

[SoulEspresso]

I'm quite aware of the layperson's activities over the years and over this saga. And just because the church's leaders allowed themselves to be influenced inappropriately in the past by this person, doesn't mean they liked it. These people like to be able to sleep at night, too.

Please don't think I'm discounting your experience, Artiste--it's very valuable, and the more voices for accountability we have, the better. But that doesn't give us license to rush to judgment.

We have plenty of evidence of wrongdoing at 3ABN. Scads. Buckets. Truckloads. We have some evidence of undue influence on the GC by a certain leader in ASI. What is not apparent is the contents of the letter from Paulsen and Schneider to AF over the merger. Spectrum sez it raised concerns; AToday quotes them as saying it was "a positive letter." Let's look at the latter story again:

Schneider disclaimed any day-to-day involvement in the merger discussions themselves, but acknowledged that he and Jan Paulsen, General Conference president, jointly signed “a positive letter” that responded to questions directed to them by Doug Batchelor, president of Amazing Facts, and Adventist lay persons involved in the merger discussions.

Schneider acknowledged that sending jointly signed letters is unusual for the two highest-ranking Adventist executives in North America, but that in so doing they believed they could demonstrate their complete agreement on matters pertaining to the merger.

Does this story tell us anything at all on what the "questions" or "matters pertaining to the merger" actually were? Um ...

Do you think these guys would look with approval on a lowering of standards on a ministry connected to the Adventist church? Or are you interpreting this as, Garwin twisted their arms into supporting the merger and letting AF go?

You could be right, but I hope not. If the merger goes through, AF will go down the toilet with 3ABN. And that's a real shame.

[Artiste]

Or are you interpreting this as, Garwin twisted their arms into supporting the merger and letting AF go?

I am interpreting it as that.



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[Johann]

I'm quite aware of the layperson's activities over the years and over this saga. And just because the church's leaders allowed themselves to be influenced inappropriately in the past by this person, doesn't mean they liked it. These people like to be able to sleep at night, too.

Please don't think I'm discounting your experience, Artiste--it's very valuable, and the more voices for accountability we have, the better. But that doesn't give us license to rush to judgment.

We have plenty of evidence of wrongdoing at 3ABN. Scads. Buckets. Truckloads. We have some evidence of undue influence on the GC by a certain leader in ASI. What is not apparent is the contents of the letter from Paulsen and Schneider to AF over the merger. Spectrum sez it raised concerns; AToday quotes them as saying it was "a positive letter." Let's look at the latter story again:
Does this story tell us anything at all on what the "questions" or "matters pertaining to the merger" actually were? Um ...

Do you think these guys would look with approval on a lowering of standards on a ministry connected to the Adventist church? Or are you interpreting this as, Garwin twisted their arms into supporting the merger and letting AF go?

You could be right, but I hope not. If the merger goes through, AF will go down the toilet with 3ABN. And that's a real shame.

I think, hope, and pray that your interpretation is not far from reality. Also based on some insights given to me from personal conversations among leaders.

[Artiste]

I'm quite aware of the layperson's activities over the years and over this saga. And just because the church's leaders allowed themselves to be influenced inappropriately in the past by this person, doesn't mean they liked it. These people like to be able to sleep at night, too.

I don't believe they like it either.

I was under the impression that it was more of an unpleasant necessity of sorts to go along with the layperson's wishes. I would not go so far as to think that they believed that the church would lose Amazing Facts or lower the stardards of ministries in the process.


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This post has been edited by Artiste: Jul 21 2007, 02:55 PM

[Johann]

Oh...right...the next election.
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A good reminder, but for whom?

[Artiste]

A good reminder, but for whom?

I guess that church leaders remember who they are indebted to when the time comes for relections, just like politicians, as Panama Pete reminded us.



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[Skyhook]

For what its worth, I had a very brief conversation with Jim Pederson during camp meeting last week. I approached him and asked if I could give him some unsolicited input. He said "Sure." I said "No merger." He said, "Why not?" I dont remember all of my exact one or two sentance reply, but it included they "lack transparency" and "If things are as many people believe tham to be at 3ABN, there needs to be a radical change in leadership." JP gave a rather non-commital reply, but said "Yes, there are some who believe that there needs to be transparency and accountability." His attitude was such that seemd to convey agreement. Of course he doesn't know me and for him to express opinions different than what has already been posted here would not be wise on his part.

[Artiste]

For what its worth, I had a very brief conversation with Jim Pederson during camp meeting last week. I approached him and asked if I could give him some unsolicited input. He said "Sure." I said "No merger." He said, "Why not?" I dont remember all of my exact one or two sentance reply, but it included they "lack transparency" and "If things are as many people believe tham to be at 3ABN, there needs to be a radical change in leadership." JP gave a rather non-commital reply, but said "Yes, there are some who believe that there needs to be transparency and accountability." His attitude was such that seemd to convey agreement. Of course he doesn't know me and for him to express opinions different than what has already been posted here would not be wise on his part.

I am glad you spoke with Jim Pederson, the president of the Seventh-day Adventist Northern California Conference.

I have been thinking this afternoon about how unresponsive church leaders have been to the concerns of us laypeople for what, the last year or so?

It is disappointing.

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This post has been edited by Artiste: Jul 28 2007, 10:17 PM

[Artiste]

I guess that church leaders remember who they are indebted to when the time comes for relections, just like politicians, as Panama Pete reminded us.
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It makes me sad to think about the probable fact that Seventh-day Adventist church leaders are concerned about their career advancement in the church to the point that they will refuse to make a stand or even a statement concerning the demonstrated widespread and deep corruption in the Seventh-day Adventist supporting ministry, 3ABN.


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