Curious, Curious Options

[ohiodaniel]

Just curious, has anyone here build any kind of business and understand what it takes to do such? I do understand Fran has done some very successful ventures, would be interested in that..

Also, was told by someone who says she knows, that the people who are trying to get the 3ABN board to be accountable to them, have never really given anything. I doubt if that is true but want it refuted. If it is not true some people should be feeling awkward about this.

[PeacefulBe]

ohiodaniel,

Welcome to BSDA!

I have read and re-read your OP and am a bit unclear at what you are asking. Would you please attempt to clarify your point a bit? Thanks.

[Voktar of Zargon]

[quote name='ohiodaniel' post='210612' date='Aug 18 2007, 05:31 PM']Just curious, has anyone here build any kind of business and understand what it takes to do such? I do understand Fran has done some very successful ventures, would be interested in that..

Sorry, I think I misunderstood what you were saying

This post has been edited by Voktar of Zargon: Aug 18 2007, 04:11 PM

[lurker]

My first reaction to this post is that this person wants folks to prove they have donated so they can be identified.

Of course Danny and others worked hard. But what was the sin of Annanias and Sapphira who gave much to the early church? Simply that they claimed to have sacrificed more than they actually did and lied about it.

[Shepherdswife]

Also, was told by someone who says she knows, that the people who are trying to get the 3ABN board to be accountable to them, have never really given anything. I doubt if that is true but want it refuted. If it is not true some people should be feeling awkward about this.

I have heard a desire for accountability coming from save3abn.com, but not accountability to "them"--Pickle and Joy. They have called for accountability to generally held legal, ethical, financial, spiritual and moral standards, accountability to the donors who make 3 ABN possible, but that is far different than what you asked.

And though they are now "non-denominational, if they are going to be the "face of adventism" to the world, as some on here have claimed, I would think every member would have an interest in that face being ethical and moral, whether they donated to 3ABN or not.

shepherdswife

[Ozzie]

I have heard a desire for accountability coming from save3abn.com, but not accountability to "them"--Pickle and Joy. They have called for accountability to generally held legal, ethical, financial, spiritual and moral standards, accountability to the donors who make 3 ABN possible, but that is far different than what you asked.

And though they are now "non-denominational, if they are going to be the "face of adventism" to the world, as some on here have claimed, I would think every member would have an interest in that face being ethical and moral, whether they donated to 3ABN or not.

shepherdswife

In yesterday's South Pacific Division Record, Rod Brady, CFO SPD, confirmed that:
"With the increasing accountability expectations of governments and church members, the South Pacific Division (SPD) has decided it can no longer receipt and forward donations to independent ministires that function outside the auspices and control of the church. ...The church is held accountable by both members and governments for the funds that are given. ... Members giving to organisations such as 3ABN through the SPD have been receeiving a church receipt for their donation, which has placed an accountability expectation on the church. 3ABN is an independent organisation and thus the church cannot ensure accountability for the funds given by members. ... Of coures, donations made to the official church-sponsored satelitte ministry Hope Channel will continue to be processed by the church. - David Gibbons/North New Zealand Conference Bulletin."

So, it appears that ALL of the SPD wants accountability. Not just the North Zealand Conference. Realistically, the majority of people want to know that whatever money they give, goes to where it is intended, and is used for the purpose for which it is given.

[lurker]

I remember seeing a similar announcement in the church I attend in North America some time ago and it was very low key with not much attention being given to it at the time. No donating to 3ABN through the church and no receipts. Post #89

http://tinyurl.com/yp77sz

This post has been edited by lurker: Aug 18 2007, 07:23 PM

[Fran]

Just curious, has anyone here build any kind of business and understand what it takes to do such? I do understand Fran has done some very successful ventures, would be interested in that..

Also, was told by someone who says she knows that the people who are trying to get the 3ABN board to be accountable to them, have never really given anything. I doubt if that is true but want it refuted. If it is not true some people should be feeling awkward about this.

Ohio Daniel;

Thank you for your unique way of Phishing! Very good! Welcome to BSDA.

Yes, I have given to 3ABN; you will not find me on any donor list at 3ABN. Go figure. It is a riddle. Can anyone guess the correct answer!

However, I do possess a receipt, from 3ABN, where I had purchased an asset, and I was issued a tax deductible receipt that says, "I received no goods or services for my 'DONATION'". I am still trying to figure that one out. Of course, I did NOT deducted it from my taxes!

Now I wonder what kind of receipt people that made very large purchases receive. It is a very good deal! Buy a Motor Home; get a tax deductible receipt for a cash donation. Sounds like a deal to me. What do you think about this happening? It is very similar to the horse’s deal that is spoken of.


Q. Now, should 3ABN be accountable to me?
A. Yes, I watch it at times.

Q. Do I have to be a donor to ask that 3ABN be accountable to me?
A. NO

Q. Why?
A. I will spare you my opinion for now. If you insist, I will provide it, but it will be quite lengthy, and it would probably make you mad, and that is not my intent.

You heard right, I have led a very, very, exciting life. I could tell you stories and make your hair curl! Sorry! Maybe later.

In the meantime, the world waits with baited breath to learn that Danny is in fact as lily white as a "profit" should be.

[Ozzie]

I remember seeing a similar announcement in the church I attend in North America some time ago and it was very low key with not much attention being given to it at the time. No donating to 3ABN through the church and no receipts. Post #89

http://tinyurl.com/yp77sz

Thanks for that link lurker. I wonder how many other churches/unions/divisions are adopting the same policy?

[appletree]

Just curious, has anyone here build any kind of business and understand what it takes to do such? I do understand Fran has done some very successful ventures, would be interested in that..

Also, was told by someone who says she knows, that the people who are trying to get the 3ABN board to be accountable to them, have never really given anything. I doubt if that is true but want it refuted. If it is not true some people should be feeling awkward about this.

Welcome. 3ABN does supply accountability to every contributor whether they give cash or donated items. Regardless, I believe you are correct that many of the "naysayers" that go on and on about this subject have never given a dime. No matter Frans "motor home" comments, the truth is, there are strict guidelines in place for how receipting is done for donated items and the amount that the item can be receipted for. I know. I have donated items. The procedure was very structured and there was accountability in several different departments, backed up by the paperwork. Take it from someone who has actually been through the procedure several times, 3ABN always has been and still is backing up their accountability with absolute proof of where your money goes. The same applies to cash givers. If you haven't thoroughly experienced their accounting procedures and the professionalism with which it is done, then please don't listen and repeat false rumors.

[Ozzie]

If you haven't thoroughly experienced their accounting procedures and the professionalism with which it is done, then please don't listen and repeat false rumors.

Appletree, are you saying that the SPD doesn't know what it's talking about? This would not be a decision that was taken lightly.

[Fran]

Welcome. 3ABN does supply accountability to every contributor whether they give cash or donated items.

Fran: Wrong!

Regardless, I believe you are correct that many of the "naysayers" that go on and on about this subject have never given a dime.

Fran: I have given money to 3ABN! I would say that many, many Seventh-day Adventists have given money to 3ABN. I guess that is why the Seventh-day Adventist World Church will no longer allow local churches to accept 3ABN Donations through the church treasuries, right? The churches used to issue receipts to the donors, through the local churches, so the members would only receive one receipt. I gave to many ministries through my church. No more! Never again! I hear tell 3ABN is getting cut off! Why? It is clear. LACK OF TRANSPARANCY, PERIOD.

No matter Fran's "motor home" comments, the truth is, there are strict guidelines in place for how receipting is done for donated items and the amount that the item can be receipted for.

Fran: Donated items, over an IRS atated amount, must be acknowledged with an IRS Form 8283! It should list a description of the item donated; you know, like horses! However, the 8283 NEVER ASSESs THE VALUE OF THE ITEM DONATED. The recipient of the DONATED item/s is the responsible party to assign the value of the item received as a donation and justify that amount to the IRS. The IRS them can check the entities Assessed value with the donors declared assessed value. Questions arise when the donor and the donee declare values that are drastically different.

So see, it is illegal for Danny or Linda to received a cash donation receipt for horse's they donated to another ministry. It is illegal for that Ministry that received the horses to assess a value to Danny or Linda! They are to send an 8283 with a description to Danny and Linda. Then it is up to Danny and Linda to rightly assess the value of those horses they donated. Maybe Danny's brother-in-law was available to doctor a cash donation receipt?

I know.

Fran: So Do I!

I have donated items.

Fran: So have I!

The procedure was very structured and there was accountability in several different departments, backed up by the paperwork.

Fran: I totally agree! You bettcha, that paperwork will match every time. Why else would there be experts in forgery available? Any good criminal would make sure to cover those tracks! Give me a break! This does not prove accountability!

Take it from someone who has actually been through the procedure several times, 3ABN always has been and still is backing up their accountability with absolute proof of where your money goes.

Fran: Wrong; all I can say is, "Been There, Done That." too!

The same applies to cash givers.

Fran: I would certainly hope so!

If you haven't thoroughly experienced their accounting procedures and the professionalism with which it is done, then please don't listen and repeat false rumors.

Fran: Everyone reading this should feel free to believe what their intellect tells them, and decide on their own what they believe/repeat.

Fran: I have experience up close and personal.

Appletree;

Thank you for your reply!

I DID NOT tell a falsehood or a rumor. I spoke the truth! Maybe these receipts I have will come up in discovery over at that court house where 3ABN's lawyers frequent! Everyone, please feel free to repeat what I have said. It is the honest to God truth!

Sorry Appletree, you and your buds should get together before you go PHISHING for Fran. Sometimes I bite at the bait! Lots of people have seen my receipts. I believe I "may" have sent several copies to the IRS! Accountability? I think not! Otherwise I would not have a hard copy original as EVIDENCE FOR EVERYONE TO SEE! Careful now...

Questions:

1. Can 3ABN take a deposit and trace it back to one days receipts, to the penny?
2. Do the days receipts equal the deposit, to the penny?
3. Are there 8283's available for anything asset donated above the IRS limit.
4. Is that 8283 attached to the book value of that Asset?
5. Are the assets valued by someone other than a 3ABN CEO, Board Member or employee of 3ABN? (Auditors have reported several times that there is a problem in assessing values of 3ABN's assets. This speaks volumes)
6. Are the daily postings equal to the deposits, everyday of business for the last five years?
7. Is every checkbook balanced within days of receipt of the statement?
8. I mean EVERY BANK account, even those that most people don't know about?
9. Do the monthly deposits match the monthly postings. Can one item be traced back to the origin? Any item?

Oh Well, this is boring everyone I am sure!

I repeat, I did not LIE, nor have I exaggerated. Now I will close and let every person reading this decide for them selves what is real and what is bogus!

[Johann]

If you haven't thoroughly experienced their accounting procedures and the professionalism with which it is done, then please don't listen and repeat false rumors.

y
Fran states she has experienced their accounting procedures, and she is an experienced accountant. With what greater authority can you prove that she is wrong?

[västergötland]

Main Entry: ac·count·abil·i·ty

Pronunciation: &-"kaun-t&-'bi-l&-tE
Function: noun
: the quality or state of being accountable; especially : an obligation or willingness to accept responsibility or to account for one's actions <public officials lacking accountability>


Main Entry: trans·par·en·cy

Pronunciation: tran(t)s-'per-&n(t)-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -cies
1 : something transparent; especially : a picture (as on film) viewed by light shining through it or by projection
2 : the quality or state of being transparent


Main Entry: trans·par·ent

Pronunciation: tran(t)s-'per-&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Medieval Latin transparent-, transparens, present participle of transparEre to show through, from Latin trans- + parEre to show oneself
1 a (1) : having the property of transmitting light without appreciable scattering so that bodies lying beyond are seen clearly : PELLUCID (2) : allowing the passage of a specified form of radiation (as X-rays or ultraviolet light) b : fine or sheer enough to be seen through : DIAPHANOUS
2 a : free from pretense or deceit : FRANK b : easily detected or seen through : OBVIOUS c : readily understood d : characterized by visibility or accessibility of information especially concerning business practices


What is 3abn's status on transparency?

[Shepherdswife]

3ABN does supply accountability to every contributor whether they give cash or donated items.

I believe this statement would be more accurate if the word "documentation" was used. LIke all non-profits, 3ABN does provide documentation to their donors, but accountability is not something that an organization "supplies" when you donate. It is something they are open to, something they accept from a third party who asks them questions about their procedures. It is an environment, a mindset, a culture of willingness to be transparent about their decisions and practices. Account-ability--the ability (and willingess) to give account.

So everyone who reads these posts and watches the corporate behavior of 3ABN in the midst of the lawsuit for example, will have to decide for themselves how much "accountability" they are "supplying".

shepherdswife