Larry Romrell: Adventist Connections? Options

[LaurenceD]

I had always thought that 3ABN's combined message regarding the Sabbath, the state of the dead, the interpretation of the beasts and dragons, the Three Angels Messages, etc. were very distinctly, denominationally SDA, but I could be wrong.

I think this quote best sums up the 3abn mindset (from Aletheia on another thread this morning):

"I take each Church and ministry and decide on a individual basis for myself."

IOW, this mindset may greatly help in understanding the compound's attitude towards other issues, like TS, like appealing Judge Rowe's decision with their property tax, like whether LS is/was guilty of adultry, like whether (you name it)...

Everyone else could reach the opposite conclusions (or at least have strong reservations), including God, and the stubborn answer from 3abn would still be the same....that you're entitled to your opinion, you decide for yourself, you can't prove they didn't, etc.

That's why I'm not nearly as interested in what they believe as I am in the methods they use to determine their beliefs. Their method is transparent.

[awesumtenor]

Also let's not forget, the organized church has worked with 3abn for 23 years. Would they have done that if 3abn was veering of course from the beliefs?

Kellogg, Jones and Waggoner worked with the church for years too... until they veered off course.

It is not how one starts; it is how one finishes; the apostle Paul makes that clear in his discourse on discipline in 1Cor 9 which he sums up by saying

1Co 9:25-27 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. (26) I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: (27) But I keepunder my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Or to put it in the manner of a senior chief I used to work for...sanitized... it only takes one "oh snap" to wipe out a boatload of "attaboy"'s

In His service,
Mr. J

[PeacefulBe]

Thank you, even though I am quite sure she knew exactly what was meant.

Panther, thank you for your guess and attempt to clarify the Burning Forever statement.

appletree, no, I didn't know what you meant. I would not have made my comment had I understood. I haven't had the time to watch 3abn much lately so didn't know if this was something new in the programming. I'm certain you would agree that if one has a question about another's statement it is always the best policy to ask that person for clarification rather than surmise what they meant.

I, also, found your explanation of the "non-denominational" issue quite reasonable. However, I still feel that it was an error in judgement on the part of the attorneys to do so and hope that it doesn't muddy things down the road.

PB

[awesumtenor]

I, also, found your explanation of the "non-denominational" issue quite reasonable. However, I still feel that it was an error in judgement on the part of the attorneys to do so and hope that it doesn't muddy things down the road.

On closer inspection it is not; it address 3ABN's not being a denomination... but one need not be a denomination to put forth a denominational message... so at best it's not responsive since it addresses an issue not in dispute.

In His service,
Mr. J

[awesumtenor]

C'mon Duane; you know the party line... " pay no attention to the man behind the curtain..."

On a related note I heard the former Iraqi minister of infomation submitted a resume to be on 3ABN's PR staff...

In His service,
Mr. J

[ex3ABNemployee]

C'mon Duane; you know the party line... " pay no attention to the man behind the curtain..."

On a related note I heard the former Iraqi minister of infomation submitted a resume to be on 3ABN's PR staff...

In His service,
Mr. J

Oh, yeah. I remember him.

Well, if he's got enough money or media connections, I'm sure he's a shoo-in.

[appletree]

Duane,
You have not been an employee there for 20+ years correct? Back when 3abn was a small struggling ministry with minimal employees. Therefore, you have no idea of the present policies, committee's and guidelines for programming much less, whether Danny has anything to do with it or not.
Please don't bother to say you have a friend that has a friend that works there and they said.........Those are not the facts.

[appletree]

I believe the language in the lawsuit went a little further than saying 3ABN is non denominational, and said that 3ABN is not affiliated with any denomination. That was surprising, as I had thought that there was some form of affiliation with the SDA church. As I recall, it also said something about 3ABN's message being non denominational. I had always thought that 3ABN's combined message regarding the Sabbath, the state of the dead, the interpretation of the beasts and dragons, the Three Angels Messages, etc. were very distinctly, denominationally SDA, but I could be wrong.

Beartrap,
You of all people know better than to insinuate anything other that 3abn's strict doctrinal guidelines for programming. Read my post again. It's all about definitions under the law, nothing else. You are well aware of the Adventist Message being broadcast 24/7 and to try and post anything different is at the very least deceitful and you know it.

[appletree]

I was also very interested when a currently prominent SDA scholar, in talking face to face with me about a year ago, told me of an incident that happened between him and Danny Shelton some years previous. It happened when it was called to his attention that certain content on 3abn was not quite in harmony with good scriptural interpretations, and he offered to form a committee of experts in various areas which would review prospective progamming for 3abn and give advice as to its soundness from a biblical and doctrinal standpoint. His offer was rejected flat out, and the interesting reason given was that "that is not how we do things here. We judge a program solely on the basis of its appealing quality. If it has that appeal we show it. If it does not. We don't. We

I will have to say WB that for a change your post gave me quite a chuckle. It is so funny how people can leave out a few words or change a few to give something a whole different meaning. I am not accusing you directly of doing that but very possibly the person who said that to you. I know better. Now, while the supposed 3abn person may have added into the conversation that making the programs appealing is very important, to say they are judged on that alone would have to be a blatant lie on someone's part. Think about it. Do you think any ministry connected to Adventist teachings could last 23 years if content didn't matter? Of course not. The Adventist people would not stand for it. That certainly would be the scenerio if programs were based "soley on appeal." Another idea that proves that theory wrong is because we also know that there are a few programs that are not really appealing but actually a little boring. If they are boring the certainly can't have been aired soley on appeal.

We do not like all the programs on secular TV why would christian TV be any different. There are some programs people will like and others they will not. This is just a "common sense" issue.

I believe you said the important aspect here is who is reviewing the content. I already answered that. A well grounded pastoral committee.
As to your comment on Rick Odle and his non SDA background, let me give the flip side of that coin. Rick was a pastor for many years in another denomination. While pastoring that church he came to work in Master control at 3abn in the early years. Master Control is where the programs are put in the machines and sent up to satellite. This means that an MC operator spends his working hours in front of the TV listening to all the programs being aired. No they can't turn the volume down in case of a problem. After months and months of listening day in and day out to Adventist doctrine, Rick started studying diligently for himself with the motive of proving us wrong. End result? He became an Adventist pastor and still is today many years later. My point?
Rick would have been an excellent reviewer after his conversion. His "learning" was fresh, his scriptural knowledge, astute and his reasoning as to why we believe what we believe was excellent. Sometimes those that study hard to prove us wrong, learn and understand more of our teachings than the average Joe.

That was then when the ministry was very small. Now there is a full pastoral committee for review meaning that 3abn does as much as is humanly possible to make sure that no error is presented in their programs.

[Observer]

Beartrap,
You of all people know better than to insinuate anything other that 3abn's strict doctrinal guidelines for programming. Read my post again. It's all about definitions under the law, nothing else. You are well aware of the Adventist Message being broadcast 24/7 and to try and post anything different is at the very least deceitful and you know it.

Please correct me if I am wrong. I have not reviewed the papers filed to begin the litigation for a while.

Did those papers not assert that 3-ABN was preaching a unique message not associated with any other relligious group?

That sounds to me like it is said that the message that 3-ABN is preaching differs from what the SDA chruch proclaims.

[princessdi]

See now, Appletree, I don't get that from Bear's post. What I get is exactly what you are saying. That 3ABN HAS BEEN preaching the uniquely SDA doctrinal message for 20+ years. The problem comes in when they leagally describe themselves as non demonational, not having any ties to any denom, and preaching a non denom message. For 20+ years most if not all of that is not true. Did they only have a drop down arrow with already prepared categories, and they had to pick the closest one? I am almost sure that they could have more accurately described their apparent association with the SDA church.

It might be a good idea to see how AF describes it's ministry by definition under the law.............ya' think?

Beartrap,
You of all people know better than to insinuate anything other that 3abn's strict doctrinal guidelines for programming. Read my post again. It's all about definitions under the law, nothing else. You are well aware of the Adventist Message being broadcast 24/7 and to try and post anything different is at the very least deceitful and you know it.

[ex3ABNemployee]

Duane,
You have not been an employee there for 20+ years correct? Back when 3abn was a small struggling ministry with minimal employees. Therefore, you have no idea of the present policies, committee's and guidelines for programming much less, whether Danny has anything to do with it or not.
Please don't bother to say you have a friend that has a friend that works there and they said.........Those are not the facts.

So, if I read your post correctly, you do seem to imply that when I was employed there, at least, Danny called ALL the shots?

[Observer]

I will have to say WB that for a change your post gave me quite a chuckle. It is so funny how people can leave out a few words or change a few to give something a whole different meaning. I am not accusing you directly of doing that but very possibly the person who said that to you. I know better. Now, while the supposed 3abn person may have added into the conversation that making the programs appealing is very important, to say they are judged on that alone would have to be a blatant lie on someone's part. Think about it. Do you think any ministry connected to Adventist teachings could last 23 years if content didn't matter? Of course not. The Adventist people would not stand for it. That certainly would be the scenerio if programs were based "soley on appeal." Another idea that proves that theory wrong is because we also know that there are a few programs that are not really appealing but actually a little boring. If they are boring the certainly can't have been aired soley on appeal.

We do not like all the programs on secular TV why would christian TV be any different. There are some programs people will like and others they will not. This is just a "common sense" issue.

I believe you said the important aspect here is who is reviewing the content. I already answered that. A well grounded pastoral committee.
As to your comment on Rick Odle and his non SDA background, let me give the flip side of that coin. Rick was a pastor for many years in another denomination. While pastoring that church he came to work in Master control at 3abn in the early years. Master Control is where the programs are put in the machines and sent up to satellite. This means that an MC operator spends his working hours in front of the TV listening to all the programs being aired. No they can't turn the volume down in case of a problem. After months and months of listening day in and day out to Adventist doctrine, Rick started studying diligently for himself with the motive of proving us wrong. End result? He became an Adventist pastor and still is today many years later. My point?
Rick would have been an excellent reviewer after his conversion. His "learning" was fresh, his scriptural knowledge, astute and his reasoning as to why we believe what we believe was excellent. Sometimes those that study hard to prove us wrong, learn and understand more of our teachings than the average Joe.

That was then when the ministry was very small. Now there is a full pastoral committee for review meaning that 3abn does as much as is humanly possible to make sure that no error is presented in their programs.

Re: Rich Odle:

The 2007 YEARBOOK lists a Richard Odle, who lives in Granite City, IL, as a currrently recognized, and ordained SDA pastor. If this person is the "Rich Odle" referenced above, he clearly was a recognized ordained SDA minister at the time teh 2007 YEARBOOK was printed.

[PeacefulBe]

C'mon Duane; you know the party line... " pay no attention to the man behind the curtain..."

On a related note I heard the former Iraqi minister of infomation submitted a resume to be on 3ABN's PR staff...

In His service,
Mr. J

I wondered what the ex-MOI was up to these days. Well, it will be interesting to see how save3abn will portray that guy.

Just kidding around, fellas.

PB

[Artiste]

Please correct me if I am wrong. I have not reviewed the papers filed to begin the litigation for a while.

Did those papers not assert that 3-ABN was preaching a unique message not associated with any other relligious group?

That sounds to me like it is said that the message that 3-ABN is preaching differs from what the SDA chruch proclaims.

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS
...
PLAINTIFFS' COMPLAINT
...
...3ABN is a non-denominational christian ministry...
...
Since its inception, Shelton and 3ABN have worked tirelessly to promote 3ABN's ministry and to spread its unique, non-denominational "Return to God" message.
...

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This post has been edited by Artiste: Aug 23 2007, 11:41 AM