Royalty Income Options

[Statrei]

didn't we review the book in question at one time and found it to be ummm shallow and specious at best?

It qualifies as a book only if you redefine a book to be a collection of pages with a cover. Nothing hurt me more than to see the simple folk at the small country church I frequent raving about that book as if it is the Holy Grail. If I could find someone to sue for this abuse I would.

[Johann]

It qualifies as a book only if you redefine a book to be a collection of pages with a cover. Nothing hurt me more than to see the simple folk at the small country church I frequent raving about that book as if it is the Holy Grail. If I could find someone to sue for this abuse I would.

Would the author or co-author qualify?

[Clay]

It qualifies as a book only if you redefine a book to be a collection of pages with a cover. Nothing hurt me more than to see the simple folk at the small country church I frequent raving about that book as if it is the Holy Grail. If I could find someone to sue for this abuse I would.

thank you.... you summed up my feelings on that "book." And that a conference prez would push the distribution of said books tells me the state of the .org in that part of the world.... scary....

[Statrei]

Would the author or co-author qualify?

Probably, but I would have no standing. We would have to try a class action and that has its own problems. There may be problems getting it certified. But I am getting tired of this religious abuse that is being done.

[Fran]

thank you.... you summed up my feelings on that "book." And that a conference prez would push the distribution of said books tells me the state of the .org in that part of the world.... scary....

My thoughts exactly!

Of course this brings Shelly Quinn into the royalties picture also. I would like to know what percentage Danny go vs. what percentage Shelly got. I wonder if they got equal royalties since it was co-authored. Is Shelly a disqualified person?

I causes me concern that so many of the books got given away! It concerns me that there was personal gain at the expense of the donors.

Statrei;

I agree that this is indeed "religious abuse".

[Snoopy]

If they wrote it on company time I would think 3ABN should be the royalty recipient.

[Panama_Pete]

http://www.runquist.com/article_intermedsancts.htm This article describes disqualified persons. It is a long article and I don't want to post it all here because I don't think anyone wants to read the whole thing.

I didn't believe that DLS would be a disqualified person but on rereading the article, I think I was wrong and that DLS could indeed be considered to be a disqualllified person also. Tell me what you think the article says.

Thanks for that link.

Looks like DLS Publishing is a disqualified person to me. It also looks like managers and other non-profit organizations that participate also are disqualifed. That's my unqualifed take on it (I'm not a CPA).

Under the statute, the following are disqualified :

a. A family member (spouse, siblings and their spouses, ancestors, children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, and spouses of children, grandchildren and great grandchildren) of a disqualified person. A legally adopted child is a child of said individual.

b. An organization (corporation , partnership, trust or estate) owned 35% or more, directly or indirectly, by a disqualified person or his or her family member(s). This does not include voting rights held only as a director, trustee, or other fiduciary, without any stock, profit or other beneficial interest.

b. Through an Intermediary: An intermediary is any person (including another tax-exempt entity ) that participates in a transaction with a disqualified person of the exempt organization.

Note the Silent Managers:

"When Does an Organization Manager Participate in a Transaction?

Participation includes silence or inaction by the organization manager , when the manager is under a duty to speak or act, as well as any affirmative action."

"Correction: Return of Benefit Plus Interest. The cost of receiving an excess benefit is severe. In all cases, the excess benefit must be corrected. Correction requires the excess benefit to be undone to the extent possible, and the taking of any additional steps necessary to restore the organization to a financial position not worse than where it would be if the disqualified person had dealt under the highest fiduciary standards.

The correction amount equals the sum of the excess benefit, plus interest on the excess benefit a rate that equals or exceeds the applicable Federal rate, compounded annually ."

[Fran]

Hum! Go figure! I'm going back to school to take journalism so I can write a book! I'm salivating on these royalty maybes.

One book a year and I could live really comfortably especially if I got free advertising on a TV network for free! Just think how many people bought the book supposedly about Spiritual Adultery, written by Dove, all because of a recommendation from Kay Kuzma!

From what I have read here and at Amazon, I found I really don't need a deep knowledge of my subject matter either.

Spiritual adultery sounds like a great topic for my new book! ($$$ Cha Ching $$$)

Thanks for that link.

Looks like DLS Publishing is a disqualified person to me. It also looks like managers and other non-profit organizations that participate also are disqualifed. That's my unqualifed take on it (I'm not a CPA).

Under the statute, the following are disqualified :

a. A family member (spouse, siblings and their spouses, ancestors, children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, and spouses of children, grandchildren and great grandchildren) of a disqualified person. A legally adopted child is a child of said individual.

b. An organization (corporation , partnership, trust or estate) owned 35% or more, directly or indirectly, by a disqualified person or his or her family member(s). This does not include voting rights held only as a director, trustee, or other fiduciary, without any stock, profit or other beneficial interest.

b. Through an Intermediary: An intermediary is any person (including another tax-exempt entity ) that participates in a transaction with a disqualified person of the exempt organization.

Note the Silent Managers:

"When Does an Organization Manager Participate in a Transaction?

Participation includes silence or inaction by the organization manager , when the manager is under a duty to speak or act, as well as any affirmative action."

"Correction: Return of Benefit Plus Interest. The cost of receiving an excess benefit is severe. In all cases, the excess benefit must be corrected. Correction requires the excess benefit to be undone to the extent possible, and the taking of any additional steps necessary to restore the organization to a financial position not worse than where it would be if the disqualified person had dealt under the highest fiduciary standards.

The correction amount equals the sum of the excess benefit, plus interest on the excess benefit a rate that equals or exceeds the applicable Federal rate, compounded annually ."

[beartrap]

Appletree et al,

Aside from alleged royalties on an alleged book, What can you tell us about 40 acres of prime property that the 3ABN board has allegedly very recently gifted to Danny Shelton? Did this actually happen? Did he request it? Was it a part of some deal? If so, what was the deal, and what did 3ABN receive in return from him? Also, have the other employees been gifted anything? Did they also receive substantial raises and/or bonuses this year? Do any of them currently receive or qualify for food stamps, or have they in recent years? What is the market value of those alleged 40 acres?

[Richard Sherwin]

And if you really want the ka ching then convince a church with upteen million members to buy it and give it away as a witnessing tool....

Hum! Go figure! I'm going back to school to take journalism so I can write a book! I'm salivating on these royalty maybes.

One book a year and I could live really comfortably especially if I got free advertising on a TV network for free! Just think how many people bought the book supposedly about Spiritual Adultery, written by Dove, all because of a recommendation from Kay Kuzma!

From what I have read here and at Amazon, I found I really don't need a deep knowledge of my subject matter either.

Spiritual adultery sounds like a great topic for my new book! ($$$ Cha Ching $$$)

[Observer]

If they wrote it on company time I would think 3ABN should be the royalty recipient.

1) In the seccular world, written material produced on either "company time," or with company resources belongs to the company. However, individual companies may have a policy to allow the person who produced such to retain a portion of the proceeds.

2) In the U.S. Federal Governmnet, material either produced on government time, or with goverenment resources belongs to the people of the U.S. and is in the Public Domain. However, research grants are another matter, as are so-called classified material and products, and/or other sensitive material.

3) The Seventh-day Adventist Church in a policy that goes back to the days of Ellen White allows material produced by denominational employees to be owned by them, without regard to whether or not it was produced on company time. There be some very limited exceptions for people who work in SDA publishing for the work that they produce directly related to their position. But, even these may own some of the work that they produce.

4) Now we get to the issue with 3-ABN and royalties related to published works such as the 10 Commandment book. Taken from the standpoint of a seccular business, if that book was produced either on 3-ABN time, or with their resources, it should be owned by 3-ABN. If the traditional SDA position was followed, it should be owned by the people who wrote it. As 3-ABN is not an SDA institution, and claims to be a ministry, the 3-ABN Board should have established a policy in regard to material produced by its officers, and any employees who might be assumed to have produced it on company time or with company resources. If the 3-ABN Board failed in its responsibility to establish such a policy early on, any officer or employee of 3-ABN should have had the ethical sensitivity to have gone to the Board, stated that he/she planned to produce some written material (Prior to writing it.) and asked the Board to establish a policy.

NOTE: The issue which has been raised in regard to the purchase and distribution of materials authored by a 3-ABN officer or employee raises additional issues that I have not addressed in this post.

[Snoopy]

1) In the seccular world, written material produced on either "company time," or with company resources belongs to the company. However, individual companies may have a policy to allow the person who produced such to retain a portion of the proceeds.

2) In the U.S. Federal Governmnet, material either produced on government time, or with goverenment resources belongs to the people of the U.S. and is in the Public Domain. However, research grants are another matter, as are so-called classified material and products, and/or other sensitive material.

3) The Seventh-day Adventist Church in a policy that goes back to the days of Ellen White allows material produced by denominational employees to be owned by them, without regard to whether or not it was produced on company time. There be some very limited exceptions for people who work in SDA publishing for the work that they produce directly related to their position. But, even these may own some of the work that they produce.

4) Now we get to the issue with 3-ABN and royalties related to published works such as the 10 Commandment book. Taken from the standpoint of a seccular business, if that book was produced either on 3-ABN time, or with their resources, it should be owned by 3-ABN. If the traditional SDA position was followed, it should be owned by the people who wrote it. As 3-ABN is not an SDA institution, and claims to be a ministry, the 3-ABN Board should have established a policy in regard to material produced by its officers, and any employees who might be assumed to have produced it on company time or with company resources. If the 3-ABN Board failed in its responsibility to establish such a policy early on, any officer or employee of 3-ABN should have had the ethical sensitivity to have gone to the Board, stated that he/she planned to produce some written material (Prior to writing it.) and asked the Board to establish a policy.

NOTE: The issue which has been raised in regard to the purchase and distribution of materials authored by a 3-ABN officer or employee raises additional issues that I have not addressed in this post.

Very interesting. I did not know that about the SDA policy with regard to book rights. However, if 3ABN is really non-denominational I guess it becomes a moot point! Sounds to me like the royalties really belong to 3ABN...

[Johann]

3) The Seventh-day Adventist Church in a policy that goes back to the days of Ellen White allows material produced by denominational employees to be owned by them, without regard to whether or not it was produced on company time. There be some very limited exceptions for people who work in SDA publishing for the work that they produce directly related to their position. But, even these may own some of the work that they produce.

The point is that Seventh-day Adventist pastors were taught that they, and their wives, were on duty 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Seems like I had been in the ministry for some years when I first heard - and read in the MINISTRY magazine - that pastors were actually entitled to a full day off each week, just not on Sabbath. Then I recall Elder Pierson, then president of the General Conference, confessing he got up in the wee hours of the morning to do his writing before going to the office. He felt he was entitled to that time to do his own work.

But then it is now 56 years since I entered denominational employment.

[Observer]

The point is that Seventh-day Adventist pastors were taught that they, and their wives, were on duty 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Seems like I had been in the ministry for some years when I first heard - and read in the MINISTRY magazine - that pastors were actually entitled to a full day off each week, just not on Sabbath. Then I recall Elder Pierson, then president of the General Conference, confessing he got up in the wee hours of the morning to do his writing before going to the office. He felt he was entitled to that time to do his own work.

But then it is now 56 years since I entered denominational employment.

Being on duty 24 hour per day is part of it. There is an additional factor. In the early days of the denominaiton there was a need to produce published mataerial that was not being written by anyone but denominational leaders, who often were under paid. There was simply no other source. In order to obtain a source of written material it was beleived that it was necessary to allow those who wrote it to recieved the small payments for it.

This post has been edited by Observer: Oct 26 2007, 06:51 AM

[Panama_Pete]

Remnant Publications is a publisher of Christian literature that has been used by 3-ABN and/or Danny Shelton to publish some of their material. For example, they published The Ten Commandments Twice Removed, which has been distributed in the millions of copies....

....NOTE: It would not be illegal for Remnant Publications to pay royalties to either 3-ABN or to others associated with 3-ABN. But, if this was done, it ought to be public knowledge.

I agree that it is not illegal for Remnant Publications to pay royalties to either 3ABN or others, and I agree that accountability and transparency are especially important when people are asked to give sacrificially to any organization, no matter how noble the cause.

http://www.lakeunionherald.org/99/3/31199.html

With so many people involved in this project, the ways people collect Bibles vary as much as the different Bibles we receive.

Here are a few ideas that have been shared with Remnant.


• Look for extra Bibles in your home.
• Set up a drop box at your church.
• Set up a drop box at your school.
• Set up a drop box at your work.
• Hold benefit concerts.
• Collect pop cans to refund.
• Donate the price of a meal.
• Give sacrificially.

Send Bibles or your tax-deductible donation to: Bibles for Africa, 649 East Chicago Road, Coldwater, MI 49036.
Remnant Publications

This post has been edited by Panama_Pete: Nov 11 2007, 11:48 AM