10 Commandments Twice Removed - Amazon $0.01, what does it say in a nutshell? Options

[Pickle]

I dont doubt that the prophets prophecy about Jesus and that they foretell Him. Thats what Jesus was talking about on that Emmaus road, wasnt it?

What indication in the text do you see that Jesus intended His words to be limited to just prophecies about Himself?

[Pickle]

Go to the same cemetery with a high pressure power washer, however... if I can still deliver as much water as I want, I can take the letters off...

But then again, power washers hadn't been invented yet in Paul's day.

[Pickle]

So we do not know where the mountain is and we do not know what it is made up of. Is there anything here that we are not speculating about?

We do not know beyond doubt where it is or exactly what all the rocks are that make up the area it is located in. But what is not speculation is that God wrote the 10 Commandments with His finger on tables of stone that could be closed like a book, and that He intended it to be something that would last and last, and thus He did not write them on chalk. And thus, we still end up with tablets that cannot be nailed unless we somehow drill a hole through them first.

Now if you venture to try this approach about Col. 2:14 on someone not of our faith, let them come up with objections like power washers, waterfalls, sandstone, and the like. Those are ideas I do not recall any non-Adventist coming up with to me in the last 14-17 years I've used this explanation.

[Clay]

We do not know beyond doubt where it is or exactly what all the rocks are that make up the area it is located in. But what is not speculation is that God wrote the 10 Commandments with His finger on tables of stone that could be closed like a book, and that He intended it to be something that would last and last, and thus He did not write them on chalk. And thus, we still end up with tablets that cannot be nailed unless we somehow drill a hole through them first.

Now if you venture to try this approach about Col. 2:14 on someone not of our faith, let them come up with objections like power washers, waterfalls, sandstone, and the like. Those are ideas I do not recall any non-Adventist coming up with to me in the last 14-17 years I've used this explanation.

you are mistaken..... does not the bible tell us that God will write his law on our hearts.... so the writing on the stone was temporary.... when will folks get out of the OT and into the NT and beyond? You guys are scary when you wander from the 3abn topics.....

[Pickle]

Regarding nailing through slate shingles, I found http://www.ehow.com/how_2422_replace-slate-shingles.html,
which says, "Remove the new shingle from its test position and drill its nail holes."

I have no idea if you always have to drill a hole before putting a nail through a slate shingle, but if you do, then that reinforces the idea that you can't nail something engraved in stone.

Additional looking turned up http://www.arcat.com/sdspecs/htm/07315esi.htm which says, "Slate Shingles: Hard, dense, sound rock, punched or drilled for two nails each, sorted to eliminate any that have been cracked or broken."

This post has been edited by Pickle: Nov 7 2007, 08:47 AM

[Pickle]

you are mistaken..... does not the bible tell us that God will write his law on our hearts.... so the writing on the stone was temporary.... when will folks get out of the OT and into the NT and beyond? You guys are scary when you wander from the 3abn topics.....

"Jehovah engraved His Ten Commandments on tables of stone, that all the inhabitants of earth might understand His eternal, unchangeable character" (CT 248).

"Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, ... How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?" (2 Cor. 3:3, 7, 8).

Often the symbols carry multiple shades of meaning. Thus the writing by Christ of the 10 Commandments on stone not only would suggest the permanence of His law, but also how it is to last forever in our hearts.

The first set of tables on Sinai God made. The second set God told Moses to make, and he then had to bring them to God for God to write upon. I take that to symbolize that after the Old Covenant failed, because the people tried to obey in their own strength, that we all have to bring the tables of our heart to God for Him to write upon.

Now that concerns the two sets of tables on Mt. Sinai. Then there is the original set that was made before those two, the one in the ark in heaven. It too would at least represent the permanence of God's law, and it is referred to twice indirectly in the NT book of Revelation.

[awesumtenor]

But then again, power washers hadn't been invented yet in Paul's day.

Engraved cemetery headstones hadn't been invented in Paul's day either...

In His service,
Mr. J

[Clay]

"Jehovah engraved His Ten Commandments on tables of stone, that all the inhabitants of earth might understand His eternal, unchangeable character" (CT 248).

"Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, ... How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?" (2 Cor. 3:3, 7, 8).

Often the symbols carry multiple shades of meaning. Thus the writing by Christ of the 10 Commandments on stone not only would suggest the permanence of His law, but also how it is to last forever in our hearts.

The first set of tables on Sinai God made. The second set God told Moses to make, and he then had to bring them to God for God to write upon. I take that to symbolize that after the Old Covenant failed, because the people tried to obey in their own strength, that we all have to bring the tables of our heart to God for Him to write upon.

Now that concerns the two sets of tables on Mt. Sinai. Then there is the original set that was made before those two, the one in the ark in heaven. It too would at least represent the permanence of God's law, and it is referred to twice indirectly in the NT book of Revelation.

only in your opinion.... which I don't share.....ark in heaven.... some folks take symbolism just a tad too far....

[awesumtenor]

What indication in the text do you see that Jesus intended His words to be limited to just prophecies about Himself?

Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.

In His service,
Mr. J

[Pickle]

Engraved cemetery headstones hadn't been invented in Paul's day either...

In His service,
Mr. J

Things had been engraved on stone a long time before his day, and that is the main point.

When talking about the topic today, one has to refer to something folks are familiar with, and thus the reason for bringing a cemetary into the discussion, since that is the easiest place to find engraved stones today.

[Pickle]

only in your opinion.... which I don't share.....

Which point did you consider to be my opinion, an opinion you don't share?

Okay, I see you added a qualifier regarding the ark in heaven. Do you think that Ellen White took things too far when she claimed that she had seen a literal ark in heaven in vision, and when she claimed that the fact of that ark's existence is a landmark doctrine that cannot be removed:

The passing of the time in 1844 was a period of great events, opening to our astonished eyes the cleansing of the sanctuary transpiring in heaven, and having decided relation to God's people upon the earth, [also] the first and second angels' messages and the third, unfurling the banner on which was inscribed, "The commandments of God and the faith of Jesus." One of
the landmarks under this message was the temple of God, seen by His truth-loving people in heaven, and the ark containing the law of God. The light of the Sabbath of the fourth commandment flashed its strong rays in the pathway of the transgressors of God's law. The nonimmortality of the wicked is an old landmark. I can call to mind nothing more that can come under the head of the old landmarks. (LDE 44, 45)

She lists the ark as being a separate landmark from the temple in heaven.

Using the Bible alone, it would be hard to come up with the idea that there is no actual furniture in the heavenly temple, given what several passages say.

This post has been edited by Pickle: Nov 7 2007, 09:03 AM

[Pickle]

Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.

In His service,
Mr. J

So do you consider the words, "O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken" to have to be limited by the particular passages or topics from the Bible He went on to share with them?

If so, what do you think of: "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken" (Jn. 10:34, 35)? Do you consider Ps. 82:6 to be inspired when it says, "Ye are gods," and do you agree with Jesus that that verse cannot be borken?

[awesumtenor]

Things had been engraved on stone a long time before his day, and that is the main point.

When all else fails, change directions, eh Bob?

When talking about the topic today, one has to refer to something folks are familiar with, and thus the reason for bringing a cemetary into the discussion, since that is the easiest place to find engraved stones today.

so, IOW to avoid having your fact refuted, you have gone from a statement of fact to a statement of principle where the fact is not really the issue....

riiiiiiiiiiiiiight...



In His service,
Mr. J

[awesumtenor]

So do you consider the words, "O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken" to have to be limited by the particular passages or topics from the Bible He went on to share with them?

If so, what do you think of: "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken" (Jn. 10:34, 35)? Do you consider Ps. 82:6 to be inspired when it says, "Ye are gods," and do you agree with Jesus that that verse cannot be borken?

The preceding verse is not relevant to the question you posed. The bible states clearly he expounded unto them all of the things, beginning at Moses and all the prophets, the things concerning Himself. Anything else that may have been discussed is not noted in the biblical record and therefore is speculation on your part. We are discussing what the bible records regarding their conversation... and the bible notes only his expounding to them the things concerning Himself and His suffering, death, burial and resurrection.

Anything else you throw into the ring is nothing but a diversionary tactic.

In His service,
Mr. J

[Pickle]

When all else fails, change directions, eh Bob?



so, IOW to avoid having your fact refuted, you have gone from a statement of fact to a statement of principle where the fact is not really the issue....

riiiiiiiiiiiiiight...



In His service,
Mr. J

Not sure where I've changed directions at all. Not at all.