How Much Of Concern About 3abn Is Motivated By Liberalism?, Neutralizing one of Danny's alibis Options

[Pickle]

When Adventist Today covered stories about 3ABN before, they were accused of being a bunch of liberals trying to take down a conservative ministry. That is one reason why they took such interest in Gailon and myself since we definitely do believe the Seventh-day Adventist message as it has been understood over the last 160+ years.

A pastor called me and remarked yet again that he feels that a lot of the criticism is motivated by liberalism, and that some of those posting here aren't really Seventh-day Adventists. Now with a lot of people I know, that is definitely not the case, but in light of some of the posts here, this last-ditch alibi will unfortunately resonate with a lot of people, even if it isn't true.

If you consider the various stances different ones have taken here when it comes to standards, the health message, a literal sanctuary in heaven, misconstruing thought inspiration into word inspiration, eschatology, the gift of prophecy, perhaps the authority and inspiration of Scripture, how can one counter this alibi?

How can it be effectively demonstrated to the conservatives in Seventh-day Adventism that it isn't a liberal agenda or philosophy or beliefs that motivate the criticism of Shelton et. al. at all, but rather one's principles of ethics, morality, fiduciary responsibility, and the like?

Or is it impossible to separate these two categories of possible motives, and thus we just have to live with Danny's accusations that a lot of this criticism is coming from liberals who are out to get a conservative ministry?

[Denny]

I would be surprised if Conservative Adventists thought it was ok for an Adventist to dump their spouse on non biblical grounds and remarry, so their concerns are a smokescreen. If 3ABN was a liberal outfit they would be hollering all over the place just the same.

[Panama_Pete]

I would be surprised if Conservative Adventists thought it was ok for an Adventist to dump their spouse on non biblical grounds and remarry, so their concerns are a smokescreen. If 3ABN was a liberal outfit they would be hollering all over the place just the same.

Yes, I think you've got it, Denny.

It is the top Republican, Chuck Grassley, on the Senate Finance Committee who investigating the televangelists. Republicans are usually identified with the conservatives. Therefore, it is the conservatives who are disenchanted with all of the hokus pokus going on.

However, I don't see the liberals stopping this investigative train, either. Support for a televangelist cleanup seems to be across party lines. This happens when the complaints from the voting public start piling up in the Senate building.

Republican Senator Chuch Grassley
Top Republican Senate Finance Committee Member from Iowa

[Clay]

Pickle stated in part:

If you consider the various stances different ones have taken here when it comes to standards, the health message, a literal sanctuary in heaven, misconstruing thought inspiration into word inspiration, eschatology, the gift of prophecy, perhaps the authority and inspiration of Scripture, how can one counter this alibi?

How can it be effectively demonstrated to the conservatives in Seventh-day Adventism that it isn't a liberal agenda or philosophy or beliefs that motivate the criticism of Shelton et. al. at all, but rather one's principles of ethics, morality, fiduciary responsibility, and the like?

Or is it impossible to separate these two categories of possible motives, and thus we just have to live with Danny's accusations that a lot of this criticism is coming from liberals who are out to get a conservative ministry?

who cares where the questions come from if they are legitimate questions. the tactic being used is one of distraction, rather than address the questions or the issues, those being questioned attempt to divert the focus from the issue to the one who is asking the question....

The solution, keep asking the difficult questions.... who cares if the person asking the question is liberal or conservative.....

[Panama_Pete]

The solution, keep asking the difficult questions.... who cares if the person asking the question is liberal or conservative.....

What he said.

[Pickle]

I would be surprised if Conservative Adventists thought it was ok for an Adventist to dump their spouse on non biblical grounds and remarry, so their concerns are a smokescreen. If 3ABN was a liberal outfit they would be hollering all over the place just the same.

Good point. The idea that 3ABN had actually been a conservative ministry is a joke, in my opinion.

Still, I think this particular alibi will resonate with many, if we are not careful.

[Clay]

Good point. The idea that 3ABN had actually been a conservative ministry is a joke, in my opinion.

Still, I think this particular alibi will resonate with many, if we are not careful.

whateva.... people will always believe what they want to believe.... even in the face of evidence to the contrary.....

[YogusBearus]

Good point. The idea that 3ABN had actually been a conservative ministry is a joke, in my opinion.

Still, I think this particular alibi will resonate with many, if we are not careful.

It's those sneaky Jesuits again! We really need to do something about this infiltration.

-bear

[awesumtenor]

It's those sneaky Jesuits again! We really need to do something about this infiltration.

-bear

*whispers* In nomine Patri et Filii et Spiritui Sancti, sicut erat in principio et nunc et semper, et in saecula saeculorum, amen...

It's the fault of my Jesuit education...

In His service,
Mr. J

[PeacefulBe]

Liberals and Jesuits and Bears, oh my! Well, somebody is off to see the wizard for sure...

[Denny]

Liberals and Jesuits and Bears, oh my! Well, somebody is off to see the wizard for sure...

Where's Harry Potter when you need him?

[princessdi]

Ok?!! What further evidence do we need that we are, indeed, on the yellow brick road?

I am with Clay, who cares about what those people are saying. They are saying it because they dont' have answers to the questions, and as a diversion for anyone to keep from asking anymore. "Do you want to be considered a liberal?" Oh my goodness!! Just answer the questions!

As I said, I was at dinner with a man who just tossed the "spritual" portion of the accusation, and claims Linda to be an sdultress, on Danny's word alone. I believe this was also part of the plan. Danny would not lie! Linda must be wrong. Never mind that he moved his girlfriend and her two children onto hallowed 3ABN property "before" his divorce was final and gave her "personal" Bible sutdies. Everybody raise their hand who knows somebody who got persona Bible studies from Danny himself. That is all just for starters! Please!!

Pickle, the next time you talk to that pastor just tell him to answer the questions, it makes no difference who is asking them. And if he doesnt'have any answer, then he has nothing to say, and stop talking to him about it. It's a waste of breath you will need one day. Those who grap onto this mess are equally silly and not worth your breath or thoughts. Pray for them and let them go!

Liberals and Jesuits and Bears, oh my! Well, somebody is off to see the wizard for sure...

[calvin]

Good point. The idea that 3ABN had actually been a conservative ministry is a joke, in my opinion.

Still, I think this particular alibi will resonate with many, if we are not careful.

Well, the music is conservative.

[Brick Step]

When Adventist Today covered stories about 3ABN before, they were accused of being a bunch of liberals trying to take down a conservative ministry. That is one reason why they took such interest in Gailon and myself since we definitely do believe the Seventh-day Adventist message as it has been understood over the last 160+ years.

A pastor called me and remarked yet again that he feels that a lot of the criticism is motivated by liberalism, and that some of those posting here aren't really Seventh-day Adventists. Now with a lot of people I know, that is definitely not the case, but in light of some of the posts here, this last-ditch alibi will unfortunately resonate with a lot of people, even if it isn't true.

If you consider the various stances different ones have taken here when it comes to standards, the health message, a literal sanctuary in heaven, misconstruing thought inspiration into word inspiration, eschatology, the gift of prophecy, perhaps the authority and inspiration of Scripture, how can one counter this alibi?

How can it be effectively demonstrated to the conservatives in Seventh-day Adventism that it isn't a liberal agenda or philosophy or beliefs that motivate the criticism of Shelton et. al. at all, but rather one's principles of ethics, morality, fiduciary responsibility, and the like?

Or is it impossible to separate these two categories of possible motives, and thus we just have to live with Danny's accusations that a lot of this criticism is coming from liberals who are out to get a conservative ministry?

I think you would find that many, many Seventh-day Adventists resonate with what you are saying here, Pickle. They do tend to see two categories of questioning and criticism, one coming from Adventists generally (definitely including conservatives) in relation to "principles of ethics, morality, fiduciary responsibility, and the like"; the other motived by liberals "out to get a conservative ministry."

It is also to be observed that name tags are not always rightly placed. We should be careful how we regard them. God is always the final Judge.

In Australia in the huge Lindy Chamberlain saga of the 1980's, it is well acknowledged that prejudice against her little known Seventh-day Adventist faith (her husband at the time was an SDA pastor, though during her stay in gaol he resigned from the ministry) was a major factor fanning the flames of public opinion. Lindy was all but literally burnt to death as a witch, and this before vast cheering crowds. But the facts finally came out, and the country now looks back to the madness that overtook them in the 1980's, with a sense of shame. May the mistakes of history not be repeated. May those speaking to the "3ABN Saga" not have cause one day to look back upon their handling of the issues, with a sense of shame.

One of the beautiful things of the Chamberlain saga is that so many decent Australians from all levels of society and from all faiths - saw through all the prejudice, hype and false rumours, felt for Michael and Lindy as suffering human beings, and joined support groups to call for a fair go. Many - from all these different backgrounds - took up the work of trying to clear Michael and Lindy's names, with great courage and commitment. The clearing of their names also took heat off the SDA Church of which they were members. I have a feeling there are lessons here also which could and should carry over as folk try to sort through the issues of the 3ABN saga.

[Panama_Pete]

Well, the music is conservative.

Many people see it as being conservative. I see it as being funerary -- suitable for a funeral.