Who Were Eyewitnesses?, A challenge to so many claims Options

[Johann]

QUOTE(Ian @ Dec 28 2007, 03:21 AM) Richard,

It is disturbing, but as far as Johann goes, I believe he thinks he is telling the truth, but the FACTS are he is not a eyewitness to much. He introduced her and the Doctor, he came here to the U.S. with the Doctor once and flew back without the Doctor leaving him and Linda here together. I believe he also once went to visit the Doctor while Linda was there.,.

Other then that, all his views are based on what he was told by email or phone.

Danny, Walt Thompson and others tried to reason with him, but he would accept nothing and his bias and inability to separate his feelings from his job and put the ministry first got him fired.

He lives in Europe, far from Linda, her Church and 3ABN, and not even close to the Doctor either.

ASK HIM. he is witness only to Linda's POV and his own based on hers, and what she told him, and still tells him.

That alone makes what he says relevant at all. As it provides a insight into her agenda and views.

This post, among many others, show me beyond the slightest doubt, that you are arguing about someting you do not have any knowledge.

The whole point is that I was in faraway Norway at the time Linda was accused of being together with Dr. Arild Abrahamsen in U S A. I know, also beyond a shadow of doubt, that she could not have been together with Arild, because my wife, Irmgard, and I were staying with Arild Abrahamsen all the time, day and night, at his place in Norway.

I can assure you that neither John Lomacang, Walt Thompson, nor anyone at 3ABN could have been the eye witnesses that Ian is claiming they were, because not one of them saw anything, not at all that Linda and Arild Abrhamsen were together.

All this talk about them being eyewitnesses is utter falsehood, and these people should be honest enough to admit it. If not, they are dishonest people and not trustworthy.

Ian states that I left Arild in America together with Linda. It is true that Arild lost his passport and had to forfeit his flight back because we could not get hold of the person who had the key to where the passport was. So there was a short time I was not there and could check on them. But Alyssa was there with her mother, and mother and daughter were staying together. Are any eyewitnesses telling you this?

What these lying blind eyewitnesses completely ignore now is that at that time when I left Arild behind to find his passport, Linda was already fired from 3ABN for what she was supposed to have done in the past. These lying witnesses have not the slightest sense of chronology, or when things happened. They just spin everything to please Danny and try to make him *innocent*, even if they mix up the times when things happened.

Walt Thompson's letter, which is pinned here at the top, is a prime example of such a shoddy timing of events.

If John Lomacang or Walt Thompson were eyewitnesses, then let them say what they experienced. Something they never will, because they never saw anything.

You, Dona and Ian and Fallible, keep proving your untrustworthiness, so we know you are not telling the truth. You were not eyewitnesses and you only get your information from untrustworthy witnessses.

This post has been edited by Johann: Dec 28 2007, 03:43 PM

[jakann]

This post, among many others, show me beyond the slightest doubt, that you are arguing about someting you do not have any knowledge.

The whole point is that I was in faraway Norway at the time Linda was accused of being together with Dr. Arild Abrahamsen in U S A. I know, also beyond a shadow of doubt, that she could not have been together with Arild, because my wife, Irmgard, and I were staying with Arild Abrahamsen all the time, day and night, at his place in Norway.

I can assure you that neither John Lomacang, Walt Thompson, nor anyone at 3ABN could have been the eye witnesses that Ian is claiming they were, because not one of them saw anything, not at all that Linda and Arild Abrhamsen were together.

All this talk about them being eyewitnesses is utter falsehood, and these people should be honest enough to admit it. If not, they are dishonest people and not trustworthy.

Ian states that I left Arild in America together with Linda. It is true that Arild lost his passport and had to forfeit his flight back because we could not get hold of the person who had the key to where the passport was. So there was a short time I was not there and could check on them. But Alyssa was there with her mother, and mother and daughter were staying together. Are any eyewitnesses telling you this?

What these lying blind eyewitnesses completely ignore now is that at that time when I left Arild behind to find his passport, Linda was already fired from 3ABN for what she was supposed to have done in the past. These lying witnesses have not the slightest sense of chronology, or when things happened. They just spin everything to please Danny and try to make him *innocent*, even if they mix up the times when things happened.

Walt Thompson's letter, which is pinned here at the top, is a prime example of such a shoddy timing of events.

If John Lomacang or Walt Thompson were eyewitnesses, then let them say what they experienced. Something they never will, because they never saw anything.

You, Dona and Ian and Fallible, keep proving your untrustworthiness, so we know you are not telling the truth. You were not eyewitnesses and you only get your information from untrustworthy witnessses.

Well, that's plainly stated.

[Rosyroi]

AMEN! AMEN! and AMEN

Thank you.

[Johann]

Well, that's plainly stated.

The time comes when you have to stop wrapping it in cotton and stating the truth plainly. Even Christ did that!

[Daryl Fawcett]

Nobody seems to be challenging you on this here as one particular person is over at Maritime SDA OnLine.

[appletree]

You, Dona and Ian and Fallible, keep proving your untrustworthiness, so we know you are not telling the truth. You were not eyewitnesses and you only get your information from untrustworthy witnessses.

The only one confused about time frames here is you. The one's that need to know, know when she was accused of intimate phone conversations vs actually being with the doc and everything that transpired in between times. As I have stated before Johann (if that is who is writing here), you are not a credible source since Linda is a surrogate daughter to you and the doctor is one of your closest friends. You will see only what you wish to see and be blind to the rest.

You are beating a dead horse. Life moves on as does Danny, 3abn and all of those who wish to spread the gospel to speed our Lord's return. Enough time has been wasted here and for what? What has this thread accomplished? Obviously those that do not have access, experience or friendships to those involved, will never know more than they know now. Many facts and some information that could exonerate 3abn will probably never be made public. Why? They know if it was, people just like you would then question the authenticity of the information or condemn the very fact that it was made public, even after you demanded it. That is the way of life with those who are determined to believe something they have been told even though they themselves have had no personal experience with the people involved.

Therefore, why waste time with a certain few who already have their minds made up, when there is a whole world out there begging to learn about Jesus.
Boredom with this whole topic should have set in by now. You gave it a good spin, but, the ministry continues on with the work. When God is in it, who can be against it?

[Pickle]

Perhaps, AppleTree, you've forgotten the parable of the sheep and the goats in Mat. 25. Those who do not help their brother or sister when they are in need end up in the lake of fire, according to the parable.

It is therefore impossible to just go on and preach the gospel when there are so many hurting people, if one wants to have eternal life.

[Richard Sherwin]

Time to move on and teach the world about Jesus. I agree, but if I'm not mistaken there is still a lawsuit going on and 3abn/Danny is wasting a lot of time and money doing that which is counterproductive to the ministry and to Biblical guidance. But hey, whatever floats Danny's boat.....

The only one confused about time frames here is you. The one's that need to know, know when she was accused of intimate phone conversations vs actually being with the doc and everything that transpired in between times. As I have stated before Johann (if that is who is writing here), you are not a credible source since Linda is a surrogate daughter to you and the doctor is one of your closest friends. You will see only what you wish to see and be blind to the rest.

You are beating a dead horse. Life moves on as does Danny, 3abn and all of those who wish to spread the gospel to speed our Lord's return. Enough time has been wasted here and for what? What has this thread accomplished? Obviously those that do not have access, experience or friendships to those involved, will never know more than they know now. Many facts and some information that could exonerate 3abn will probably never be made public. Why? They know if it was, people just like you would then question the authenticity of the information or condemn the very fact that it was made public, even after you demanded it. That is the way of life with those who are determined to believe something they have been told even though they themselves have had no personal experience with the people involved.

Therefore, why waste time with a certain few who already have their minds made up, when there is a whole world out there begging to learn about Jesus.
Boredom with this whole topic should have set in by now. You gave it a good spin, but, the ministry continues on with the work. When God is in it, who can be against it?

[LaurenceD]

That would be the common perspective, Richard. Either he isn't familiar with the counsel (EGW) I see presented on his own programs, or lives a life of contradictions and discovered a way to be comfortable with them.

[lurker]

Should Martin Luther and the reformers have kept quiet? The church of their day was making converts and prospering. Was it not a Christian church and was it not established by Christ?

Should Jesus have left the moneychangers alone?. He established the system of sacrifices on which the moneychangers based their business. The pharisees were so scrupulous in their observance of the law that they accused the Lawgiver of being a lawbreaker and of trying to destroy the law when he magnified the law and brought to light their greedy schemes and their lack of mercy and love.

This post has been edited by lurker: Dec 30 2007, 09:00 AM

[Johann]

The only one confused about time frames here is you. The one's that need to know, know when she was accused of intimate phone conversations vs actually being with the doc and everything that transpired in between times. As I have stated before Johann (if that is who is writing here), you are not a credible source since Linda is a surrogate daughter to you and the doctor is one of your closest friends. You will see only what you wish to see and be blind to the rest.

You are beating a dead horse. Life moves on as does Danny, 3abn and all of those who wish to spread the gospel to speed our Lord's return. Enough time has been wasted here and for what? What has this thread accomplished? Obviously those that do not have access, experience or friendships to those involved, will never know more than they know now. Many facts and some information that could exonerate 3abn will probably never be made public. Why? They know if it was, people just like you would then question the authenticity of the information or condemn the very fact that it was made public, even after you demanded it. That is the way of life with those who are determined to believe something they have been told even though they themselves have had no personal experience with the people involved.

Therefore, why waste time with a certain few who already have their minds made up, when there is a whole world out there begging to learn about Jesus.
Boredom with this whole topic should have set in by now. You gave it a good spin, but, the ministry continues on with the work. When God is in it, who can be against it?

This is for Mr. Danny Shelton with whom you obviously have a close affinity.

Let me first say that I will not attack your present marriage. I do not think you had Biblical grounds for a remarriage, but now you are, and Brandy and the girls should not be blamed for all of your iniquity. Neither for all the untruths that are stated in the post above. (I guess Steve could have been right, right?)

Thanks, Appletree, for this challenge to let many more outside the realm of BSDA know the truth that you have done your best to hide now for the past three years. Yours was just the instigation I needed, and I thank God for that. There was a purpose in Owen getting you to hire me at 3ABN.

I have shared your *golden nuggets* with some friends, and it does the same to them. They had considered quitting, but your firebrand ignites them, and now there will soon be much wider publicity than ever before. What else can you expect with a case going on in the courts?

You may feel cozy there in your own realm on the grounds of Thompsonville in Southern Illinois where you have gathered around you devotees who devour your words as if they were divine.

Could the fact that Linda talked to John Lomacang and questioned if it was appropriate for Mollie to tell the people at 3ABN to regard the words of a certain Mr. Danny Shelton as the words of *god* himself - be a certain impetus why Mollie and Danny decided that Linda was dispenceable at 3ABN?

Can you tell me why then later, but in the early part of 2004, the same John Lomacang would tell Dr. Arild Abrahamsen that he was just the straw that broke the camel's back, referring to the inevitable divorce?

When is John Lomacang telling the truth? When he said those things to Arild? Will he deny ever having said such a thing (because it was confidential information)?

What I noticed Brenda doing when she followed Linda to Norway - and I was there - is fully in harmony with the words of John Lomacang. She obviously did not think her actions were noticeable, but you cannot hide what you are doing all the time to all people.

Tell me:

Why did you quit as president?

How are the finances of 3ABN?

Why did you take Pickle and Joy to court?

Some things are not just right.

This post has been edited by Johann: Dec 30 2007, 11:01 AM

[PrincessDrRe]

In the end....thr truth will come to light. It may not be today, it may not be tomorrow; but it (the truth) of all of this sordid mess will eventually come to light.

When it does I want the exact same folks to continue posting up in here. Whether it be ian, johann, appletree, or Danny himself.

I want both sides to contine their argument once the truth comes out.

Admit your stance and stick to your belief even in the end.

[Z00]

appletree wrote

Boredom with this whole topic should have set in by now.

This is exactly what Danny was banking on. That people would get bored and forget about it and life would go on.

[Johann]

The only one confused about time frames here is you. The one's that need to know, know when she was accused of intimate phone conversations vs actually being with the doc and everything that transpired in between times. As I have stated before Johann (if that is who is writing here), you are not a credible source since Linda is a surrogate daughter to you and the doctor is one of your closest friends. You will see only what you wish to see and be blind to the rest.

Appletree, you make a statement without any indication of where I have failed in my timing. I have gone through Walt's letter and made clear in each instance where his timing is completely off. It is so bad that you could compare that with a surgeon forgetting the anaesthesia before he starts cutting the patient. The time references you tried to push down on people were so completely off. If you keep up this argumentation I will demonstrate once again how false you have been through this whole procedure. Do you need any more embarassments? Do Joy and Pickle need more proofs of how false you are in your presentations? Is it impossible for you to be honest? Make a try, and you will make the whole atmosphere much more pleasant.

[Johann]

Many facts and some information that could exonerate 3abn will probably never be made public. Why? They know if it was, people just like you would then question the authenticity of the information or condemn the very fact that it was made public, even after you demanded it. That is the way of life with those who are determined to believe something they have been told even though they themselves have had no personal experience with the people involved.

Any reasonable explanation or information will be accepted at face value. Show me when you came with one before, and I will reconsider. I have not seen one from you yet. So you are not telling the truth when you claim that I will question its authenticity.