 An Important Meeting, What split our church for 50 years |
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 Dec 31 2007, 11:44 AM
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 1,000 + posts  Group: Members Posts: 1,521 Joined: 17-October 04 From: Iceland, formerly Denmark, Norway, USA, Sierra Leone, Nigeria, Faeroe Islands. Bound for Heaven. Member No.: 686 Gender: m  |
It is now about 50 years since one of the most important Seventh-day Adventist theological books was published. Important in may ways, deplored by some and hailed by others. Questions on Doctrines has split our church among the theolgocal experts ever since.
The Adventist Review reports that the 50th anniversary was celebrated at Andrews University in a unique way. A three day conference was held with about 200 attending. Not only were adherents of the doctrines presented invited to speak, but also the still living most ardent antagonists were invited to speak as well. Some participants in this conference have given their their report in the discussion club SDAnet.com So I will not touch here on the contents of the lectures. Some of those participating have established schools and ministries to teach what they regard as herecies in that book, but here they came, and all enjoyed peace and fellowship, culminating in the celebration together of the Lord's Supper. Angel Manuel Roderique spoke about the shepherds at Betlehem in his Sabbath sermon. He was certain those shepherds were not concerned if the baby born in the manger was born with the nature of Adam before or after the entrance of sin. The shepherds were thrilled with wonder and by joy. They did not attend any lectures or detailed studies. They worshiped the divine child. We have now celebrated Christmas and have come to the last day of the old year, actually the third year since these problems started. Are we ready to come together to a meeting with Him who was born in Betlehem to get these problems out of the way? Such a meeting was suggested twice back in May, 2004, but both suggestions were declined by the authorities of 3ABN. So the matter is still pending. Do we have to wait 50 years for a solution? Happy New Years To All! 
This post has been edited by Johann: Dec 31 2007, 11:47 AM -------------------- "Any fact that needs to be disclosed should be put out now or as quickly as possible, because otherwise the bleeding will not end." (Attributed to Henry Kissinger) "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it" (Martin Luther King) |
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Dec 31 2007, 09:36 PM
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#2
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Advanced Member  Group: Members Posts: 235 Joined: 18-August 06 From: Northern California Member No.: 2,121 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Johann @ Dec 31 2007, 12:44 PM)  It is now about 50 years since one of the most important Seventh-day Adventist theological books was published. Important in may ways, deplored by some and hailed by others. Questions on Doctrines has split our church among the theolgocal experts ever since. The Adventist Review reports that the 50th anniversary was celebrated at Andrews University in a unique way. A three day conference was held with about 200 attending. Not only were adherents of the doctrines presented invited to speak, but also the still living most ardent antagonists were invited to speak as well. Some participants in this conference have given their their report in the discussion club SDAnet.com So I will not touch here on the contents of the lectures. Some of those participating have established schools and ministries to teach what they regard as herecies in that book, but here they came, and all enjoyed peace and fellowship, culminating in the celebration together of the Lord's Supper. Angel Manuel Roderique spoke about the shepherds at Betlehem in his Sabbath sermon. He was certain those shepherds were not concerned if the baby born in the manger was born with the nature of Adam before or after the entrance of sin. The shepherds were thrilled with wonder and by joy. They did not attend any lectures or detailed studies. They worshiped the divine child. We have now celebrated Christmas and have come to the last day of the old year, actually the third year since these problems started. Are we ready to come together to a meeting with Him who was born in Betlehem to get these problems out of the way? Such a meeting was suggested twice back in May, 2004, but both suggestions were declined by the authorities of 3ABN. So the matter is still pending. Do we have to wait 50 years for a solution? Happy New Years To All! Johann, I have heard that it was a very productive meeting with a spirit of openess and Christian curetesy. I wasn't there and didn't hear Rodriquez whole sermon, but his statement about the shepherds lack of concern as to whehter Jesus was pre fall or post fall seemed to me to reflect a bit of contempt for the concerns of many of those present. Jan Paulsen made a similar statement a couple of weeks or so before the meetings. He seemed to be indicating they were a waste of time. I think the meetings were long over due. I was glad to hear that it was considered a success by the participants. |
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Jan 2 2008, 11:54 AM
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1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 1,521 Joined: 17-October 04 From: Iceland, formerly Denmark, Norway, USA, Sierra Leone, Nigeria, Faeroe Islands. Bound for Heaven. Member No.: 686 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Skyhook @ Jan 1 2008, 03:36 AM) Johann, I have heard that it was a very productive meeting with a spirit of openess and Christian curetesy. I wasn't there and didn't hear Rodriquez whole sermon, but his statement about the shepherds lack of concern as to whehter Jesus was pre fall or post fall seemed to me to reflect a bit of contempt for the concerns of many of those present. Why? QUOTE Jan Paulsen made a similar statement a couple of weeks or so before the meetings. He seemed to be indicating they were a waste of time. I think the meetings were long over due. I was glad to hear that it was considered a success by the participants. What would you say if I suggest I have found similar thoughts in the writings of Ellen G. White? Would you regard me a heretic? -------------------- "Any fact that needs to be disclosed should be put out now or as quickly as possible, because otherwise the bleeding will not end." (Attributed to Henry Kissinger) "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it" (Martin Luther King) |
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Jan 2 2008, 01:57 PM
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 62 Joined: 24-July 06 Member No.: 1,932 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Johann @ Jan 2 2008, 12:54 PM) Why? What would you say if I suggest I have found similar thoughts in the writings of Ellen G. White? Would you regard me a heretic? The Bible is clear that Mary conceived and was the biological mother of Jesus. The ambiguety comes from sources other than Scripture. howdy |
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Jan 2 2008, 02:33 PM
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1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 1,521 Joined: 17-October 04 From: Iceland, formerly Denmark, Norway, USA, Sierra Leone, Nigeria, Faeroe Islands. Bound for Heaven. Member No.: 686 Gender: m |
QUOTE(howdy @ Jan 2 2008, 07:57 PM) The Bible is clear that Mary conceived and was the biological mother of Jesus. The ambiguety comes from sources other than Scripture. howdy Thank you, Howdy. -------------------- "Any fact that needs to be disclosed should be put out now or as quickly as possible, because otherwise the bleeding will not end." (Attributed to Henry Kissinger) "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it" (Martin Luther King) |
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Jan 2 2008, 07:03 PM
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 235 Joined: 18-August 06 From: Northern California Member No.: 2,121 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Johann @ Jan 2 2008, 12:54 PM) "Why?" Skyhook's reply: As I'm sure you know, the whole controversy revolved around the accusation that the authors of QOD took it upon themselves to alter some key beliefs long held by the Adventist church in order to appear acceptable to the Evangelicals. Whether the nature of Christ was pre-fall or post-fall was at the center of the arguments. The statement by Rodriguez seemed to belittle the concerns of those involved in the discussions. I could be mistaken because I did not hear the context of his statement. I think what Paulsen meant was quite clear. As I understand it these meetings were not organized by or sponsered by the NAD or the GC. The subject is considered a "hot potato" by many. What would you say if I suggest I have found similar thoughts in the writings of Ellen G. White? Would you regard me a heretic? You? A heretic? Never! 
This post has been edited by Skyhook: Jan 2 2008, 07:05 PM |
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Jan 4 2008, 12:32 PM
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 500 + posts  Group: Members Posts: 894 Joined: 18-September 06 Member No.: 2,262 Gender: m |
Love is more important than being right.
While I haven't read the transcripts or heard the sermons--yet--I applaud that the meeting even happened at all. -------------------- "The entire world is falling apart because no one will admit they are wrong." -- Don Miller, Blue Like Jazz. |
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Jan 4 2008, 03:07 PM
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 1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 2,251 Joined: 25-August 06 Member No.: 2,169 Gender: f |
QUOTE(howdy @ Jan 2 2008, 11:57 AM) The Bible is clear that Mary conceived and was the biological mother of Jesus. The ambiguety comes from sources other than Scripture. howdy Does the Bible really say that? Are we certain that the life form of the Son of God was made out of one of Mary's eggs or if she was the chosen surrogate? I'm not trying to stir anything up, I'm just not so sure that a child being born of Mary necessarily means she was the biological mother of Jesus. Is the determination of the nature of Jesus, pre or post fall human, salvific? I'm with SE. Love is more important than being right. -------------------- Got Peace?
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid. "Truth welcomes examination and doesn't need to defend itself, while deception hides in darkness and blames everyone else." Aunt B, 2007 |
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Jan 4 2008, 03:29 PM
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1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 1,521 Joined: 17-October 04 From: Iceland, formerly Denmark, Norway, USA, Sierra Leone, Nigeria, Faeroe Islands. Bound for Heaven. Member No.: 686 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Johann @ Dec 31 2007, 05:44 PM) We have now celebrated Christmas and have come to the last day of the old year, actually the third year since these problems started. Are we ready to come together to a meeting with Him who was born in Betlehem to get these problems out of the way? Such a meeting was suggested twice back in May, 2004, but both suggestions were declined by the authorities of 3ABN. So the matter is still pending. Do we have to wait 50 years for a solution? Happy New Years To All! QUOTE(SoulEspresso) Posted Today, 06:32 PM Love is more important than being right. While I haven't read the transcripts or heard the sermons--yet--I applaud that the meeting even happened at all. Are there signs on the way this is happening right now? 3ABN program yesterday? This post has been edited by Johann: Jan 4 2008, 03:36 PM -------------------- "Any fact that needs to be disclosed should be put out now or as quickly as possible, because otherwise the bleeding will not end." (Attributed to Henry Kissinger) "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it" (Martin Luther King) |
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Jan 4 2008, 04:34 PM
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 419 Joined: 8-October 04 Member No.: 676 |
Forgiveness? Well, they talk a good game. Let's see if they will forgive and drop the lawsuit.
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Jan 4 2008, 04:37 PM
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1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 1,521 Joined: 17-October 04 From: Iceland, formerly Denmark, Norway, USA, Sierra Leone, Nigeria, Faeroe Islands. Bound for Heaven. Member No.: 686 Gender: m |
QUOTE(lurker @ Jan 4 2008, 10:34 PM) Forgiveness? Well, they talk a good game. Let's see if they will forgive and drop the lawsuit. Can we make that a subject of our prayers? -------------------- "Any fact that needs to be disclosed should be put out now or as quickly as possible, because otherwise the bleeding will not end." (Attributed to Henry Kissinger) "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it" (Martin Luther King) |
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Jan 4 2008, 10:35 PM
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 62 Joined: 24-July 06 Member No.: 1,932 Gender: m |
QUOTE(PeacefulBe @ Jan 4 2008, 04:07 PM) Does the Bible really say that? Are we certain that the life form of the Son of God was made out of one of Mary's eggs or if she was the chosen surrogate? I'm not trying to stir anything up, I'm just not so sure that a child being born of Mary necessarily means she was the biological mother of Jesus. Is the determination of the nature of Jesus, pre or post fall human, salvific? I'm with SE. Love is more important than being right. it is certainly true that love is the most important. If you read the story as recorded by Luke there is no reason to question the circumstances of Jesus conception. He was the real son of Mary. howdy |
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Jan 5 2008, 12:43 PM
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 419 Joined: 8-October 04 Member No.: 676 |
And a literal descendant of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, king David etc.
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Jan 5 2008, 04:08 PM
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 500 + posts Group: Financial Donor Posts: 629 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Over here Member No.: 529 Gender: f |
QUOTE(Johann @ Jan 4 2008, 03:29 PM) [b] Are there signs on the way this is happening right now? 3ABN program yesterday? I saw that program too. I was stunned. Jim Gilley allowed that! Boy are they brazen! Danny was in his element. I am worried about him. Johann, can you give us your take on that sermon? Did anyone else see the program? -------------------- The greatest want of the world is the want of men-- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall. {Ed 57.3}
But such a character is not the result of accident; it is not due to special favors or endowments of Providence. A noble character is the result of self-discipline, of the subjection of the lower to the higher nature--the surrender of self for the service of love to God and man. {Ed 57.4} |
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Jan 5 2008, 05:47 PM
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 235 Joined: 18-August 06 From: Northern California Member No.: 2,121 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Fran @ Jan 5 2008, 05:08 PM) I saw that program too. I was stunned. Jim Gilley allowed that! Boy are they brazen! Danny was in his element. I am worried about him. Johann, can you give us your take on that sermon? Did anyone else see the program? Fran, I didn't see it. Who preached and what was it about? |
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