An Unauthorized History Of 3abn, Continues Options

[sister]

I have spoken with both individuals in this story, Pastor Jean and Kristina Fiscalini and the following is a composite of their remembrances. They have read this, agreed to it’s publication on BSDA and the truth of the depicted incidents. For those of you unfamiliar with foreign names, Pastor Fiscalini’s first name is the French version of the English name “John”, his last name is of Italian origin, he is a native of the German speaking area of Switzerland and his wife is American.

Sister



Nobody owns the Church... Part 1


Sitting quietly, facing Danny Shelton, Kristina’s mind races back to the conversation she had with her husband the previous evening:

“Honey, you realize if you stand up against Danny Shelton that could be the end of your career at 3ABN,” she said. Snuggling closer to her husband she looked into his eyes, wondering what effect this would have upon his decision. Smiling back at her, he softly strokes her hair and answers, “The Lord has always provided for us and that will not change. This is a church issue and in good conscience, as a SDA pastor and one of the Thompsonville elders, I have to go to the nominating committee and object to Danny being re-elected as an elder. I am sure they will act correctly, otherwise I will be forced to bring it up publically when the vote is taken in church.”

As a sense of foreboding came upon her, she realized her Swiss pastor husband had more confidence in the correct functioning of their local church than she. Knowing Danny’s reputation of only attending church board meetings when he wanted to guarantee a specific outcome in an item on the agenda and having heard how it functioned, gave her little faith in the leadership of the local church: Prior to Danny’s appearance there could be majority agreement among the board concerning a certain topic, after his arrival and a statement of his “suggestion” the board would flip in the opposite direction and if necessary call for another vote on the same agenda item in order to comply with Danny’s wishes. Having obtained his desired results, Danny would exit the meeting, leaving the remaining Board members to handle the rest of the agenda without his personal supervision.

The previous night’s conversation with her husband and her understanding of how the Thompsonville church board functioned, is what brought her to where she was today, sitting on the sofa in Danny Shelton’s office, as he smiled at her from the other side of his desk. To understand why Kristina felt it was necessary to ask Danny Shelton the following question is understood in light of the fact that the majority of church board members were either employed by 3ABN or the spouses of 3ABN employees. “Danny, I have a question. Does what happens in the Thompsonville church effect a person’s job at 3ABN or are the two separate?” For a brief instant a puzzled look crossed upon Danny’s face, quickly regaining his composure, he answered, “No. They are separate.” While repeating his answer to confirm a correct understanding, a look of relief passed over her face as she continued to discuss a few other topics in regard to other matters. Getting up to leave she hoped that Danny would remain true to his word.

After the first reading of the nominating committee report, the 3ABN European Liaison, who also worked in the pastoral department, felt very uncomfortable with one of the selections for church elder— Danny Shelton. During the last cycle of church offices, he and Danny Shelton had both been elders in the Thompsonville SDA church.

Pastor Fiscalini had served both as a department head in the German Swiss Conference of SDA and as a district pastor before working for 3ABN. He and Danny Shelton were about the same age, but their understanding of the responsibilities involved in serving the local church were diametrically opposed. While Pastor Fiscalini took his duties very seriously, Danny was not of the same mind in regard to his responsibilities and the obligations of a church elder.

Was it important 3ABN business that kept Danny from fulfilling his obligations as an elder and a member of the church board? No. For example, instead of attending Board meetings he was in the gym playing basketball. Additionally, Danny never attended the church elders’ meetings or functioned as an elder in any way during the time he and Jean Fiscalini were both members of the Thompsonville church.

Driving home one evening after a church board meeting—where Danny was present for just a few topics and left about 30 minutes into the meeting—Jean saw the lights on in the church school gym and a number of vehicles parked outside, including Danny Shelton’s big red truck. Looking inside he was surprised to see Danny and a group of his friends in the midst of playing basketball. Judging by their physical condition and their sweat soaked t-shirts, it was obvious that they had been playing for quite a while. Was this the reason that Danny had walked out of the church board meeting, shirking his responsibilities? Jean Fiscalini could hardly believe what he saw. Could it be possible that a church elder would walk out on a board meeting just to indulge his own pleasure?

Later, Jean Fiscalini would approach Danny Shelton privately, under similar circumstances—Danny continued to leave church board meetings, without a word of explanation and spent the rest of the evening playing basketball in the Church School gym. It was becoming obvious that Danny placed a higher value on his weekly basketball games than his responsibility as a member of the church board.

When Pastor Fiscalini approached Danny Shelton with his concerns regarding the performance of the duties of an elder—including being present at church board meetings for their entirety, rather than scheduling his basketball play at the same time; not arriving at church until Sabbath school was over and not being involved in any other functions of an elder—he reminded Danny how their roles as church elders obliged them to a higher standard of conduct. Danny’s response was to laugh, but it was not with amusement. There was a coldness in his eyes and a sharpness to his laugh. The expression on his face changed to indicate he found no humor in Pastor Fiscalini questioning his conduct. As chairman of the church board, a fellow local elder and a Seventh-day Adventist minister, Jean Fiscalini had begun the Biblical process described in Mathew 18 by bringing his concerns directly to Danny Shelton.

To be continued...

[appletree]

To be continued...

Oh Pleeeeease don't start trying to write another ficticious novel. If you still have aspirations of being an author, it would be wise to write about something other than made up stories other's tell you. Write something you could actually send to a publishing company for review.
I noticed the contradictions in your story as they were fairly obvious. At one point, Danny doesn't come to the board meetings, at another, he does but just for a limited amount of time and then goes to play basketball. Yet another was that he only comes to the ones where he wants to swing the vote his way...let's see does he play bball after that one? I get confused. Another interesting note is that all of these numerous board meetings (most churches don't seem to have as many as this "story" implies) must have all been held on Tuesday nights, as that is when the men play basketball. That would really be strange that the pastor would set the board meetings on that night considering, that the past and present pastor's are usually right there at the gym playing bball too. Now I guess I will have to go back and check records to see exactly how long this "pastor" worked at 3abn and then compare that with the church records to see exactly how many board meetings were held while he was there. Wanna bet, not that many????

Also amusing was the statement that Danny didn't come until after SS. The truth is Danny was rarely present at the T'vill church because of his extensive travel schedule on the weekends. On the rare weekends he was home, I certainly wouldn't blame him a bit if he did wait until the worship hour to come. He was wore out. Danny was responsible for building that church so maybe the board felt like he should be an honorary elder or something to that affect because, they knew, with his schedule he could not be an active elder. That would have been an impossibility.

Having said that, if Danny only showed up at meetings where he wanted to swing the votes, it seems he would definitely have been there for the meetings the church had over Linda and her "situation." Yet, the minutes show, that he did not attend.

The t'vill church has grown and grown with plenty of members that do not work for 3abn. I believe, if I remember correctly, that the church board is about half and half of employees/non employees. So are the church offices. John L is a conference pastor. Danny nor 3abn administration run this church.

So please, pedal your wares elsewhere. Nobody likes to read a "true" story where only the names of those involved are the truth and the rest is pure fiction. Just like your other ......mmmhhh "short stories."

[watchbird]

I have spoken with both individuals in this story, Pastor Jean and Kristina Fiscalini and the following is a composite of their remembrances. They have read this, agreed to it’s publication on BSDA and the truth of the depicted incidents. For those of you unfamiliar with foreign names, Pastor Fiscalini’s first name is the French version of the English name “John”, his last name is of Italian origin, he is a native of the German speaking area of Switzerland and his wife is American.

Sister
Nobody owns the Church... Part 1
Sitting quietly, facing Danny Shelton, Kristina’s mind races back to the conversation she had with her husband the previous evening:

“Honey, you realize if you stand up against Danny Shelton that could be the end of your career at 3ABN,” she said. Snuggling closer to her husband she looked into his eyes, wondering what effect this would have upon his decision. Smiling back at her, he softly strokes her hair and answers, “The Lord has always provided for us and that will not change. This is a church issue and in good conscience, as a SDA pastor and one of the Thompsonville elders, I have to go to the nominating committee and object to Danny being re-elected as an elder. I am sure they will act correctly, otherwise I will be forced to bring it up publically when the vote is taken in church.”

As a sense of foreboding came upon her, she realized her Swiss pastor husband had more confidence in the correct functioning of their local church than she. Knowing Danny’s reputation of only attending church board meetings when he wanted to guarantee a specific outcome in an item on the agenda and having heard how it functioned, gave her little faith in the leadership of the local church: Prior to Danny’s appearance there could be majority agreement among the board concerning a certain topic, after his arrival and a statement of his “suggestion” the board would flip in the opposite direction and if necessary call for another vote on the same agenda item in order to comply with Danny’s wishes. Having obtained his desired results, Danny would exit the meeting, leaving the remaining Board members to handle the rest of the agenda without his personal supervision.

The previous night’s conversation with her husband and her understanding of how the Thompsonville church board functioned, is what brought her to where she was today, sitting on the sofa in Danny Shelton’s office, as he smiled at her from the other side of his desk. To understand why Kristina felt it was necessary to ask Danny Shelton the following question is understood in light of the fact that the majority of church board members were either employed by 3ABN or the spouses of 3ABN employees. “Danny, I have a question. Does what happens in the Thompsonville church effect a person’s job at 3ABN or are the two separate?” For a brief instant a puzzled look crossed upon Danny’s face, quickly regaining his composure, he answered, “No. They are separate.” While repeating his answer to confirm a correct understanding, a look of relief passed over her face as she continued to discuss a few other topics in regard to other matters. Getting up to leave she hoped that Danny would remain true to his word.

After the first reading of the nominating committee report, the 3ABN European Liaison, who also worked in the pastoral department, felt very uncomfortable with one of the selections for church elder— Danny Shelton. During the last cycle of church offices, he and Danny Shelton had both been elders in the Thompsonville SDA church.

Pastor Fiscalini had served both as a department head in the German Swiss Conference of SDA and as a district pastor before working for 3ABN. He and Danny Shelton were about the same age, but their understanding of the responsibilities involved in serving the local church were diametrically opposed. While Pastor Fiscalini took his duties very seriously, Danny was not of the same mind in regard to his responsibilities and the obligations of a church elder.

Was it important 3ABN business that kept Danny from fulfilling his obligations as an elder and a member of the church board? No. For example, instead of attending Board meetings he was in the gym playing basketball. Additionally, Danny never attended the church elders’ meetings or functioned as an elder in any way during the time he and Jean Fiscalini were both members of the Thompsonville church.

Driving home one evening after a church board meeting—where Danny was present for just a few topics and left about 30 minutes into the meeting—Jean saw the lights on in the church school gym and a number of vehicles parked outside, including Danny Shelton’s big red truck. Looking inside he was surprised to see Danny and a group of his friends in the midst of playing basketball. Judging by their physical condition and their sweat soaked t-shirts, it was obvious that they had been playing for quite a while. Was this the reason that Danny had walked out of the church board meeting, shirking his responsibilities? Jean Fiscalini could hardly believe what he saw. Could it be possible that a church elder would walk out on a board meeting just to indulge his own pleasure?

Later, Jean Fiscalini would approach Danny Shelton privately, under similar circumstances—Danny continued to leave church board meetings, without a word of explanation and spent the rest of the evening playing basketball in the Church School gym. It was becoming obvious that Danny placed a higher value on his weekly basketball games than his responsibility as a member of the church board.

When Pastor Fiscalini approached Danny Shelton with his concerns regarding the performance of the duties of an elder—including being present at church board meetings for their entirety, rather than scheduling his basketball play at the same time; not arriving at church until Sabbath school was over and not being involved in any other functions of an elder—he reminded Danny how their roles as church elders obliged them to a higher standard of conduct. Danny’s response was to laugh, but it was not with amusement. There was a coldness in his eyes and a sharpness to his laugh. The expression on his face changed to indicate he found no humor in Pastor Fiscalini questioning his conduct. As chairman of the church board, a fellow local elder and a Seventh-day Adventist minister, Jean Fiscalini had begun the Biblical process described in Mathew 18 by bringing his concerns directly to Danny Shelton.

To be continued...

Thank you for beginning this important historical account, Sister. Please take no notice of the hecklers.... we want to hear the "rest of the story".

Carry on..... we are listening closely and carefully.....

............ .............

..........................

[sonshineonme]

Oh Pleeeeease don't start trying to write another ficticious novel.

Ohhh Appletree, now come one....you know, you seem to have a hard time hearing the truth, why is that?

[Clay]

as some of us are finding out truth tends to be subjective when it comes to this issue.... both sides claim they are telling the truth, and both sides seem to be willing to go to some questionable lengths to ensure that their version of the truth is made public..... reality shaping at its best....

[PeacefulBe]

as some of us are finding out truth tends to be subjective when it comes to this issue.... both sides claim they are telling the truth, and both sides seem to be willing to go to some questionable lengths to ensure that their version of the truth is made public..... reality shaping at its best....

Well, there's an upside here.... by the time this is over (sooner for a few), all of us will be so proficient at spin that with a letter of certification from Calvin we will be well qualified to become political consultants for the party of our choosing!

(edited to quickly change "and" to "an" so as not to garner the reproach of anyone looking for an easy target)

This post has been edited by PeacefulBe: Jan 14 2008, 07:13 PM

[daylily]

Appletree,

Sounds like you have ready access to the church board minutes. You the clerk?

[Ozzie]

Oh Pleeeeease don't start trying to write another ficticious novel.

And... appletree seems to be sqealing like a stuck pig! Wonder why I'm not surprised to see him come in and take the bait quicker than anyone else? One would think this (true) 'story' was speaking about AT himself!

Yet another was that he only comes to the ones where he wants to swing the vote his way...let's see does he play bball after that one? I get confused. Another interesting note is that all of these numerous board meetings (most churches don't seem to have as many as this "story" implies) must have all been held on Tuesday nights, as that is when the men play basketball. That would really be strange that the pastor would set the board meetings on that night considering, that the past and present pastor's are usually right there at the gym playing bball too. Now I guess I will have to go back and check records to see exactly how long this "pastor" worked at 3abn and then compare that with the church records to see exactly how many board meetings were held while he was there. Wanna bet, not that many????

Don't you have a Board Meeting every month, with a Business Meeting held every quarter? That is normal practice here. As Church Clerk, I have had the meeting dates for 2008 posted for all members to see, since November 2007.

Danny was responsible for building that church so maybe the board felt like he should be an honorary elder or something to that affect because, they knew, with his schedule he could not be an active elder. That would have been an impossibility.

Never heard of an 'honorary elder' before. Has anyone else? "Elder" is not a title to be earned by money or by works, but rather is elected to the position and ordained for the purpose of being "a strong religious and spiritual leader, and must have a good reputation "whith them who are without"," in their local church (see Church Manual, pp.49-54, Revised 2005, 17th ed. Elders are also to foster tithing according to the Church Manual.

Yet, the minutes show, that he did not attend.

So, you have access to ALL the Minutes do you? Mmmmm. Rather strange, unless you are the Church Clerk.

The t'vill church has grown and grown with plenty of members that do not work for 3abn. I believe, if I remember correctly, that the church board is about half and half of employees/non employees. So are the church offices. John L is a conference pastor. Danny nor 3abn administration run this church.

Quite an admission really that Danny or 3abn administration "run this church"!

So please, pedal your wares elsewhere. Nobody likes to read a "true" story where only the names of those involved are the truth and the rest is pure fiction. Just like your other ......mmmhhh "short stories."

Please continue Sister. Don't be intimidated by thugs and people who want to hide the truth. Some people actually want to hear ALL the truth.

[PeacefulBe]

And... appletree seems to be sqealing like a stuck pig!

...

Some people actually want to hear ALL the truth.

Ozzie,

I prefer the posts you have made that are more thoughtful, courteous and Christian in their spirit. I disagree that appletree came in here squealing like a pig, but I will agree with your final statement. Sadly, you might be surprised to know that there appear to be some on both "sides" who would prefer that part of the truth stay comfortably in the shadows.

[awesumtenor]

(edited to quickly change "and" to "an" so as not to garner the reproach of anyone looking for an easy target)

Like that would prevent you from being an easy target...

fish in a barrel, PB...

In His service,
Mr. J

[awesumtenor]

Ozzie,

I prefer the posts you have made that are more thoughtful, courteous and Christian in their spirit. I disagree that appletree came in here squealing like a pig, but I will agree with your final statement. Sadly, you might be surprised to know that there appear to be some on both "sides" who would prefer that part of the truth stay comfortably in the shadows.

So now you are the arbiter of what is thoughtful, courteous and Christian in their spirit for persons other than yourself?

In His service,
Mr. J

[GRAT]

Ozzie - In our church we have Elders Emeritus which are the older men Elders (no women have reached this status yet) who they want to honor but do not expect to be active or as active as the regular Elders.

[Ozzie]

Ozzie - In our church we have Elders Emeritus which are the older men Elders (no women have reached this status yet) who they want to honor but do not expect to be active or as active as the regular Elders.

Goodness! I can't find that even in the Church Manual. Does that happen very often? I've never heard of it in Australia, but neither have I spent much time in the larger city areas.

[Johann]

Goodness! I can't find that even in the Church Manual. Does that happen very often? I've never heard of it in Australia, but neither have I spent much time in the larger city areas.

Through my ministry I have learned that a number of local churches have their own unwritten church manual with unbreakable rules. As long as this does not go against the the principles of the official Church Manual there is nothing wrong with this.

Some local elders feel that their eldership is a life-long calling and that they must not be replaced. In other churches they change elders frequently. Officially an elder is up for re-election every year, and the nominating committee has the full right to suggest that new elder or elders be chosen.

[Ozzie]

Through my ministry I have learned that a number of local churches have their own unwritten church manual with unbreakable rules. As long as this does not go against the the principles of the official Church Manual there is nothing wrong with this.

Some local elders feel that their eldership is a life-long calling and that they must not be replaced.

I'm not saying it's wrong Johann. It's just that I've never heard of that before. I guess I've just always thought that positions are up for election each year and no one can lay claim to a particular Church position. How could I ever forget that, as Nominating Committees are formed each year and we go through the tedious process of selecting, asking, being rejected, asking the next one etc EVERY YEAR? LOL!

But... I've been known to be wrong before and I realise that one can learn something new every day.