An Unauthorized History Of 3abn, Continues Options

[Richard Sherwin]

In our church the leadership holds office for two years instead of the traditional one. It works out pretty good.

Through my ministry I have learned that a number of local churches have their own unwritten church manual with unbreakable rules. As long as this does not go against the the principles of the official Church Manual there is nothing wrong with this.

Some local elders feel that their eldership is a life-long calling and that they must not be replaced. In other churches they change elders frequently. Officially an elder is up for re-election every year, and the nominating committee has the full right to suggest that new elder or elders be chosen.

[PeacefulBe]

Like that would prevent you from being an easy target...

fish in a barrel, PB...

In His service,
Mr. J

You are correct about fish in a barrel being an easy target, Mr. J. One doesn't have to be a particularly good shot because the nasty concussion the bullet creates when hitting the water takes the little things right out. Saw it on Mythbusters...

[Denny]

Ozzie - In our church we have Elders Emeritus which are the older men Elders (no women have reached this status yet) who they want to honor but do not expect to be active or as active as the regular Elders.

Sounds like another 'jobs for the boys' syndrome. I also have reservations about relecting people to the same position for endless years. I think that certain positions like treasurer should be more long term than others but other elected posts should have a shelf life of at least 3 years for the same person and that all conference officials should only serve two terms (ok well maybe 3)

[Johann]

I'm not saying it's wrong Johann. It's just that I've never heard of that before. I guess I've just always thought that positions are up for election each year and no one can lay claim to a particular Church position. How could I ever forget that, as Nominating Committees are formed each year and we go through the tedious process of selecting, asking, being rejected, asking the next one etc EVERY YEAR? LOL!

But... I've been known to be wrong before and I realise that one can learn something new every day.

You should be right, but I know of churches where they never have elections either, at least not for the past many years. The elder feels he should continue. If any other officer should die or move away the remaining church board just appoints another person to take that position. Certain church members object to this privately, but their voices are never heard.

I have known of one church where someone would get up after church service once a year, asking if any church officer wanted to resign. If not they would just contiue in office. That was the annual election.

I am referring to conditions in ceartain churches in more than one country in the world field, but let me add that most churches I have know of do have their annual electiions with a nominating committee, etc.

[PeacefulBe]

So now you are the arbiter of what is thoughtful, courteous and Christian in their spirit for persons other than yourself?

In His service,
Mr. J

No, I have not been imbued with that authority. Unless I took a wrong turn and this is actuallly HtraeBlackSDA.com, I believe each member of this forum is allowed to state their opinions. My opinion is that I prefer thoughtful, courteous and Christian comport in our discussions. Lately, there seems to be a strong trend towards nastiness. Is that what Calvin wants on this great site? I doubt it...

Because of His Grace,

PB

[GRAT]

Sounds like another 'jobs for the boys' syndrome. I also have reservations about relecting people to the same position for endless years. I think that certain positions like treasurer should be more long term than others but other elected posts should have a shelf life of at least 3 years for the same person and that all conference officials should only serve two terms (ok well maybe 3)

I would not want to be on the nominating committee if that were the policy. It is tough enough to fill the positions as it happens without not being able to have people who have held the position for 3 years. My church is not small and each second year (we also have 2 years) they have to almost beg people to fill some positions, usually the children's divisions. There should be changes if there are control issues or other problems and I have seen that happen. There needs to be a strong pastor, not one in someones back pocket.

[sister]

Nobody owns the Church... Part 2

In Part 1 Jean Fiscalini had approached Danny Shelton concerning his neglect of duties associated with fulfilling the office of an Elder in the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Having received no assurance from Danny that he intended to change his behavior, the next step was to approach the nominating committee and request that Danny Shelton’s name be removed from the list as an Elder in the Thompsonville SDA Church. ---Sister

Peering individually into the astonished faces of the Nominating Committee members of the Thompsonville SDA Church, Jean Fiscalini repeated his last few sentences again, “There are no honorary positions in the Biblical Church. Every member is called to fulfill the duties of an office when he agrees to serve in that position. When Danny Shelton agreed to fulfill the office of an Elder in the Thompsonville Church, it was not offered as an honorary position, but as a position of service. To re-elect Danny as a church Elder without the assurance of his intent of faithfully fulfilling that position is an affront to God and to those church Elders who willingly sacrifice their time and put aside personal pleasure to serve the church.”

A deafening silence filled the room, as the Nominating Committee pondered what they had just heard. Pausing for a moment to allow the gravity of his words to be absorbed by those in attendance, Pastor Fiscalini then continued, “If Danny Shelton’s name is not removed from the list of Elders, by conscience I will have to publically oppose the acceptance of the list as presented at the second reading next Sabbath.”

No discussion followed Pastor Fiscalini’s statement nor were any questions asked by the members of the Nominating Committee. Looking into their faces he realized the burden of truth expressed in his explanation placed them in a position of moral dilemma. The majority of them worked for 3ABN. Danny Shelton was their boss. And in their experience the Thompsonville Church and 3ABN functioned as one unit:
• Their pastor’s salary was partially paid by both the Conference and 3ABN. Where was the line drawn in the separation of his duties as local church pastor and an employee of Danny Shelton? How could he faithfully serve two masters? What would be the result when loyalty to one came into conflict with obligation to the other?
• It was Danny, not the Illinois Conference, who selected the Pastor of the Thompsonville Church. Of course the Conference always approved Danny’s choice for his church and agreed with any suggest he made regarding it’s operation. Why did this situation exist?
• If they were to follow Biblical counsel and remove Danny Shelton’s name as a candidate for the office of Elder, how would that effect their future at 3ABN?

A myriad of possibilities flashed before their eyes. Looking into the face of the Swiss pastor, whom they had come to know and respect for his honesty and integrity, they realized that by entertaining his request they were being driven into unchartered waters in their experience as members of the 3ABN church. Danny’s right of authority within the local church, based solely upon his position as President of 3ABN, irregardless of ability or acceptability, had never been challenged.

In less than one week the second reading of the Nominating Committee would be given and offered for approval in the Thompsonville SDA church. What would be the outcome of Pastor Fiscalini’s heartfelt appeal to the members of the Committee? Jean realized this would be the end of the game and the beginning of reality concerning the actual relationship of the Thompsonville SDA Church and Danny Shelton. Despite warnings that he was cutting his own throat, he took his stand on the side of conscience.

Slowly standing up Pastor Fiscalini thanked the members of the Nominating Committee for listening to his concerns and considering his request. His heart was lightened as he turned and left the room, passing other church members waiting to address the Committee as he exited the building. He knew the position he had taken would not be to pleasing to Danny Shelton, but he had the responsibility to uphold Biblical standards while remaining faithful to the calling God had given him as a minister of the Gospel.

To be continued...

[Johann]

Ozzie,

I prefer the posts you have made that are more thoughtful, courteous and Christian in their spirit. I disagree that appletree came in here squealing like a pig, but I will agree with your final statement. Sadly, you might be surprised to know that there appear to be some on both "sides" who would prefer that part of the truth stay comfortably in the shadows.

Christian courtesy also requires that we try to understand what people from other parts of the world mean with their expressions. When I was in Sierra Leone, if somebody asked you where you were born, they would say, Ouse side did they born you? - or something like that. Somewhat different?

Even where English is the native language it is used differently in different parts of the world.

Did you know that when an Autralian addresses you as a dear friend he may call you a ratbag?

I have discovered that Australian expressions seem much stronger than those used in polite American Society. Just try to spend some time together with Australian Seventh-day Adventist pastors, and you may be surpriced to hear some of the endearing terms they use on each other. And I believe they are Christian.

This post has been edited by Johann: Jan 15 2008, 05:00 PM

[SoulEspresso]

Sister, thank you for sharing these accounts from the Fiscalinis. Moral courage is sadly lacking in the church today. We tend to save our outrage for easy targets. Not Jean. Brave man.

[appletree]

And... appletree seems to be sqealing like a stuck pig!

No, not a stuck pig...just a person who get's sick of 1% truth and 99% fiction. All spun to say what the "writer" wants it to say."

[b]Never heard of an 'honorary elder' before. Has anyone else? "Elder" is not a title to be earned by money or by works,

Why did I know that you would be the first to jump on this "opinion" when I clearly stated that it was just an idea.

[b]So, you have access to ALL the Minutes do you? Mmmmm. Rather strange, unless you are the Church Clerk.

I can get the answers I need. You don't need to worry yourself about the how's and why's.

Quite an admission really that Danny or 3abn administration "run this church"!

And...you would be the only one to try and spin the above statement. Everyone on this forum knows that particular accusation has been made, many times over, right here on good old BSDA. My comment was in reference to those posts.

Please continue Sister. Don't be intimidated by thugs and people who want to hide the truth. Some people actually want to hear ALL the truth.

Thugs???? Now, really....Just because I know the truth up close and personal, I'm a thug? What makes you think that sister is a credible source. In the past, she has had, many "errors" in his/her stories, and those have been pointed out, followed by, the true facts. When that happens, she never comes back to dispute those facts. She just attacks the one that posted the truth. Kind of like Pickle does. After enough "error" is shown, you would think people would start smelling a rat. Maybe you should try "sniffing" a little harder.

This post has been edited by appletree: Jan 15 2008, 07:28 PM

[Ozzie]

Sounds like another 'jobs for the boys' syndrome. I also have reservations about relecting people to the same position for endless years. I think that certain positions like treasurer should be more long term than others but other elected posts should have a shelf life of at least 3 years for the same person and that all conference officials should only serve two terms (ok well maybe 3)

I agree with you Denny. I think that people need to change around so that they don't think that they 'own' the position. When that happens, Church members are open to power, control and abuse issues IMHO.

[SoulEspresso]

Thugs???? Now, really....Just because I know the truth up close and personal, I'm a thug?

AT, all you have are strident declarations that the eyewitnesses are lying and the documents are forged or manipulated. You have yet to provide us a shred of a reason why we should believe you. Not phishing, just stating facts.

And thug was not a diplomatic word. But I have trouble being diplomatic myself sometimes. In fact, I had to edit this paragraph for that reason. Put it like this: it's difficult to be a thug proper over the Internet, but it's certainly easy to attempt to bully people with words. Have you been doing that?

What makes you think that sister is a credible source. In the past, she has had, many "errors" in his/her stories, and those have been pointed out, followed by, the true facts.

Would you provide a link, please? 'cuz I don't remember this happening once. Not documented, not with names, nada. Just more stridency and more "protesting too much" on thine part.

This post has been edited by SoulEspresso: Jan 15 2008, 07:40 PM

[SoulEspresso]

I agree with you Denny. I think that people need to change around so that they don't think that they 'own' the position. When that happens, Church members are open to power, control and abuse issues IMHO.

Not just members. Administrators too.

On the "elder emeritus" issue, the kinds of people that are given those positions are not the kind of people who would ask or expect it. But that's just my experience/observation.

[Ozzie]

Christian courtesy also requires that we try to understand what people from other parts of the world mean with their expressions. When I was in Sierra Leone, if somebody asked you where you were born, they would say, Ouse side did they born you? - or something like that. Somewhat different?

Even where English is the native language it is used differently in different parts of the world.

Thank you for your kind words Johann. Yes. Cultural differences come into play so often in discussions, and unless people understand that, they can certainly mis-judge people, situations and motives.

Did you know that when an Autralian addresses you as a dear friend he may call you a ratbag?

Recently, one of my daughters phoned me for my birthday. She greeted me with "Happy Birthday you old crow". I responded with "You're still the biggest ratbag in our family, aren't you?" And... we love each other dearly.

I have discovered that Australian expressions seem much stronger than those used in polite American Society. Just try to spend some time together with Australian Seventh-day Adventist pastors, and you may be surpriced to hear some of the endearing terms they use on each other. And I believe they are Christian.

So true Johann, and they are Christians and probably very good friends also.

[Ozzie]

Not just members. Administrators too.

On the "elder emeritus" issue, the kinds of people that are given those positions are not the kind of people who would ask or expect it. But that's just my experience/observation.

Exactly!