Gailon Joy Responds To Questions., Gailon Joy posts under his own name. Options

[Observer]

People have asked me why Gailon Joy does not come on to one of these so-called Adventist chat forums and respond to questions. They have also asked if he is perhaps posted here under a penname.

I do not believe that Gailon is posting under a penname.

In any case, Gailon is posting in another forum and under his real name.

The following is a post that he made there in regard to a 3-ABN Board meeting that is scheduled to begin today, January 24, 2008.

I would expect them to adopt changes that would completely restructure the corporation to include some new definition of "members" to give a much broader constituency, the most natural being ASI or its equivalent.

I would also expect to see the board itself restructure a bit as it prepares for a much more serious role in the oversight of the corporation and to include several subcommittees, including its own audit committee. They certainly have the manpower to implement this and management will be much more responsive to the board and far less responsive to the old entrenched management team, including Danny Lee Shelton.
They obviously must do something significant to impress the IRS that they are improving oversight and accountability and try to keep any challenges from the IRS to individuals and not the corporation. We must pray they are successful or a significant investment is endangered.

In summary, I expect a significant increase in the oversight of this and many boards within the Seventh-day Adventist ministries, church affiliated as well as independent.

I do believe this will be very positive step, although considered a bit cumbersome for some of the entrepreneurs in the laity, these are essential to establish due diligence and oversight responsibilities of board members and to keep a lid on inappropriate management and spending processes, and most importantly, to increase accountability to the stockholders in the pews.

In brief, I will suggest that this Board meeting is a very important one and that some major, positive changes will likely take place today. On that assumption, we ought to recognize these positive steps and those who have worked very hard to put them in place. While there are differences of opinon among those of us who post here, we hopefully can unite in asking God to lead in the decisions that are made today.

Are you hoping that the Board will withdraw the lawsuit against Messrs. Pickle and Joy? [NOTE: This was a question asked of Gailon, to which Gailon responds below: GM]


* * * * * * * * * * *

It would not be possible, or legally sound, for the Board to withdraw the lawsuite against Gailon Arthur Joy and Robert Pickle. Such a move would leave them open to
a claim for misuse of process and expose the lawfirm to liability.

They would have to negotiate a settlement with the defendants and that is possible but hardly in keeping with the objectives they laid out. After all, the lawsuite was clearly neccasary to try to eliminate or handi-cap the continued release of information and documentation supporting the allegations of misconduct, mis-management, poor stewardship of the officers and managers of 3ABN and a lack of proper oversight by the board of directors.

The chairman insists the lawsuite was to bring out the truth about what really happened, but even now they continue to block the production of documentation that is calculated to document our allegations, unless we agree to accept the premise that their documents are subject to impoundment under a confidentiality agreement. Hardly the kind of open and transparent spin they have repeatedly claimed and hardly designed to exonorate the officers and directors of 3ABN.

However, substantial changes to the 3ABN constitution and bylaws and the addition of a constituency, would go far toward acheiving oversight by the stockholders in the pews and certainly gain some accountability for future operations.

However, that will not cure or correct what is already done and there must be accountability for these issues that remain unresolved to this date. That process will require the intercession of the courts and since they have elected to go to court, we will remain in court for years to come.

Gailon Arthur Joy

Gailon's statement is posted above. I am going to make a statement that goes beyond what Gailon has said:

There are issues that can only be resolved by the civil authorities. One of these issues related to Internal Revenue Service concerns. There are others.

However, there are issues that can be resolved internally by 3-ABN and the people involved. One of these issues is that of the lawsuit that has been filed against Gailon and Bob. Here is what it would take as a first step to resolve it: The law firm that filed the litigation would need to contact Gailon and Bob and say: What do we need to do to resolve the issues?

That would not be an easy process. However, I happen to beleieve that it is not to late for these issues to be resolved out of court. I believe that a settlement could be reached between the parties.

If that does not happen here is what I see to be the consequences:

1) The litigation will continue for many months--trial is scheduled to begin in 2009.
2) Each side will win some and lose some.
3) The attempt to shut down "save33abn" has resulted in the growth of at least seven websites that have published the content of "save3ABN." I happen to believe that more such websites will spring up in the future. Does 3-ABN really think that it can put the cork on 50 such websites, or 20. The genie is out of the bottle. I can envision 20 such websites comming into existance if this effort continues. I do not think that it can be stopped.
4) 3-ABN is wounded and by their own actions. To continue this ligitation (which they have a right to do) is likely to continue the injury.
5) It is in their long-term, mission related interests, to seek a settlement.

I do not expect that the actions that the Board will likely take today will result immediately in efforts being made that could lead to a settlement. It will take more time for that beginning to occur. But, I hope that an internal process will begin today that will lead to the time when 3-ABN will seek to resolve these issues outside of court.

If a resolution is not achieved, I predict that this litigation will continue for many months. During that time there will be continued injury to 3-ABN and its mission.

Will the people who are being placed in leadership positions have the courage and foresight toseek resolution out of court?


When I first declided to post this comment I did not intend to publicly post the place where Gailon is responding to questions under his name. I see that the website has been posted in several comments made here on BSDA and by more than one person. So, is it has already been posted, here is one comment made by Inga:

Aw, shucks! You really want me to stop posting at http://www.AdventTalk.com? But I like it there!

If you go there, and click on the 3-ABN section, you will find Gailon's comments.

As I have said, there have been other comments posted, with reference to Gailon. I am not the first to do so.

This post has been edited by Observer: Jan 24 2008, 07:45 AM

[Clay]

interesting.... I am glad that a forum has been created where people so inclined can discuss 3abn to their hearts content..... I like ALMigraine's take on it though... and that's all I will say....

[YogusBearus]

Pardon my cynicism Gregory but I can’t help but be amused by the panic that shutting down the 3ABN section of BSDA caused. It is apparent that some feel it necessary to have a constant regurgitation of the seamy 3ABN saga. Why is that?

I think you are correct that there may be opportunity to have some type of settlement to this mess. I would suggest that this might have a better chance of occurring if everyone would stifle their urge to engage in speculation and further innuendo. I’m aware that would put a damper on some of the fun, and probably doesn't work well for those with personal agendas, but it seems like a cheap price to pay to have this go away.

-bear

[Clay]

Pardon my cynicism Gregory but I can’t help but be amused by the panic that shutting down the 3ABN section of BSDA caused. It is apparent that some feel it necessary to have a constant regurgitation of the seamy 3ABN saga. Why is that?

I think you are correct that there may be opportunity to have some type of settlement to this mess. I would suggest that this might have a better chance of occurring if everyone would stifle their urge to engage in speculation and further innuendo. I’m aware that would put a damper on some of the fun, and probably doesn't work well for those with personal agendas, but it seems like a cheap price to pay to have this go away.

-bear

my opinion based on what I have observed here for the past few years is that there are those who are not interested in any "realistic" closure nor are these same folks interested in stifling the urge to engage in speculation or innuendo...

So for them daily hashing and rehashing must continue....

[Observer]

Pardon my cynicism Gregory but I can’t help but be amused by the panic that shutting down the 3ABN section of BSDA caused. It is apparent that some feel it necessary to have a constant regurgitation of the seamy 3ABN saga. Why is that?

I think you are correct that there may be opportunity to have some type of settlement to this mess. I would suggest that this might have a better chance of occurring if everyone would stifle their urge to engage in speculation and further innuendo. I’m aware that would put a damper on some of the fun, and probably doesn't work well for those with personal agendas, but it seems like a cheap price to pay to have this go away.

-bear

YB:

People who work in seccular damage control will typically advise that one aspect of handling it is to get the facts out and not attempt to hide them, along with a place where people can go to obtain factual answers to there questions.

As many know, I work in a hospital. A few years back news headlines announced that one of our patients had died due to an infection recieved from a microorganism found in the dirt floor of our basement. We set up a method for people to ask questions and get truthful answers. We responded with forthrightness and accuracy. We informed the public as to what we were doing to prevent this from happening again. The negative publicity died down almost immediately.


Do you remember the so-called TYLENOL deaths of some years back? That issue was handled just as I have described here. The negative publicity died down quickly.

In my opinion 3-ABN has mishandled this sistuation and continues to do so. In my opinion it has a continuing responsibility the the negative publicity that continues to wound it.

As to this being fun: I do not think that you meant to imply that either you or anyone at 3-ABN considers this to be fun. I will tell you that none of us who are on the so-called other side consider this to be either a game or fun. This if far more serioius than that. You know it and so do I.

[YogusBearus]

YB:

People who work in seccular damage control will typically advise that one aspect of handling it is to get the facts out and not attempt to hide them, along with a place where people can go to obtain factual answers to there questions.

As many know, I work in a hospital. A few years back news headlines announced that one of our patients had died due to an infection recieved from a microorganism found in the dirt floor of our basement. We set up a method for people to ask questions and get truthful answers. We responded with forthrightness and accuracy. We informed the public as to what we were doing to prevent this from happening again. The negative publicity died down almost immediately.


Do you remember the so-called TYLENOL deaths of some years back? That issue was handled just as I have described here. The negative publicity died down quickly.

In my opinion 3-ABN has mishandled this sistuation and continues to do so. In my opinion it has a continuing responsibility the the negative publicity that continues to wound it.

As to this being fun: I do not think that you meant to imply that either you or anyone at 3-ABN considers this to be fun. I will tell you that none of us who are on the so-called other side consider this to be either a game or fun. This if far more serioius than that. You know it and so do I.

I am comfortable in the knowledge that you are not approaching this situation with less than honorable intentions Gregory. It was wrong of me to lump you into that category. Please accept my apologies.

Having said that, I unfortunately do believe that much of the commentary in the last year has been driven by less than honorable intentions. There are all sorts of agendas in play, some are honorable and some are not. The pure volume of repetitive posts on the same issues leaves one with the impression that there are some who just need their daily 3ABN fix. It's understandable but not pretty.

I really appreciated Beartrap's recent post as it showed me a lot of maturity from one who has been very close to this situation.

-bear

There have been issues I have had with 3ABN in the past. I am supportive of Jim Gilley and what I consider to be his long term plans for 3ABN. I support him and what he is doing with the ministry. I believe that he is truly dedicated to ministry. He may prove me right, or he may prove me wrong. In any case, I do believe that 3ABN has a bright future, and I support the direction they are taking. Sister and other have very solid points regarding matters such as the issue of Jean Fiscalini. I am aware of that issue. Some may also remember a school board meeting that was cut short over the Fiscalini matter. In any case, I hope that 3ABN survives and thives as a purveyor of information that improves the human condition. I believe in that mission and support it completely! I beg the support of people, the church, and the world for the furthering of true ministry to humanity through whaterver venue it may come through.

May the good survive, and the bad go away!

[Observer]

I am comfortable in the knowledge that you are not approaching this situation with less than honorable intentions Gregory. It was wrong of me to lump you into that category. Please accept my apologies.

Having said that, I unfortunately do believe that much of the commentary in the last year has been driven by less than honorable intentions. There are all sorts of agendas in play, some are honorable and some are not. The pure volume of repetitive posts on the same issues leaves one with the impression that there are some who just need their daily 3ABN fix. It's understandable but not pretty.

I really appreciated Beartrap's recent post as it showed me a lot of maturity from one who has been very close to this situation.

-bear

YB:

You are gracious.

I was not offended and did not expect an apology.

Peace,

[Ian]

People have asked me why Gailon Joy does not come on to one of these so-called Adventist chat forums and respond to questions. They have also asked if he is perhaps posted here under a penname.

I have those questions too. Also, why doesn't he just come here and post , rather than sending others?

Gailon is posting in another forum and under his real name.

so you all keep saying...

snipped balance...

Why don't we all just lift the 3abn board up in prayer, and ask the Lord to bring his will about for all?

This post has been edited by Ian: Jan 24 2008, 11:24 AM

[Observer]

I have those questions too. Also, why doesn't he just come here and post , rather than sending others?
so you all keep saying...

By the way, I am pretty independent. People may tell him what I post, after they read it.

Good question. I do not know. If you really wish to know, ask him. He just may tell you.

Why don't we all just lift the 3abn board up in prayer, and ask the Lord to bring his will about for all?

Good suggestion.

[inga]

Ian asks some questions about Gailon Joy below. And I am clearly not Gailon Joy, but I've observed a few things.

From my observation of the fora, Gailon has not posted on any other fora until the http://www.AdventTalk.com site went up. So this is a "first."

It has been fairly evident from posts appearing here and on Maritime SDA that folks have been emailing Gailon for information which they have then posted here (or only hinted at). Gailon is fairly forthright in his answers, as I discovered when I emailed him some time back. He really is not obligated to visit the various fora to see what's going on and post there. By his own documented admission he's not all that internet savvy, and it wouldn't surprise me if his current posting is a new experience for him.

As for the "panic" at "shutting down" the 3ABN section of this board (mentioned in another post), I wonder who panicked? (No one in my circle of acquaintance, online or offline.)

The suggestion of lifting the 3ABN board up in prayer is a good one, which I'm following right now and I suspect Gailon is doing as well.

Inga

I have those questions too. Also, why doesn't he just come here and post , rather than sending others?
so you all keep saying...

snipped balance...

Why don't we all just lift the 3abn board up in prayer, and ask the Lord to bring his will about for all?

This post has been edited by inga: Jan 24 2008, 01:05 PM

[Observer]

Ian asks some questions about Gailon Joy below. And I am clearly not Gailon Joy, but I've observed a few things.

From my observation of the fora, Gailon has not posted on any other fora until the http://www.AdventTalk.com site went up. So this is a "first."

It has been fairly evident from posts appearing here and on Maritime SDA that folks have been emailing Gailon for information which they have then posted here (or only hinted at). Gailon is fairly forthright in his answers, as I discovered when I emailed him some time back. He really is not obligated to visit the various fora to see what's going on and post there. By his own documented admission he's not all that internet savvy, and it wouldn't surprise me if his current posting is a new experience for him.

As for the "panic" at "shutting down" the 3ABN section of this board (mentioned in another post), I wonder who panicked? (No one in my circle of acquaintance, online or offline.)

The suggestion of lifting the 3ABN board up in prayer is a good one, which I'm following right now and I suspect Gailon is doing as well.

Inga

When <save3ABN> first opened up, people contacted Gailon with their comments both pro and con, as they were able to do so. When he shut it down, the comments continued as well as questions. When a representative of 3-ABN was quoted as saying that this was God's work, or words somewhat to that effect, the comments and questions continued, from those who were interested and know how to contact him. The publication of litigation documents in BSDA, which contained contact information for Gailon gave more peopleinformation as to how to contact him. People contacted him.


I have to assume that some of these people asked Gailon if he was going to renew the domain name registration. No, I have not been told that any did so. But, I assume that such happened.

[LaurenceD]

I can't stand your trivial religious games:
Monthly conferences, weekly Sabbaths, special meetings—
meetings, meetings, meetings—I can't stand one more!
Meetings for this, meetings for that. I hate them!
You've worn me out!
I'm sick of your religion, religion, religion,
while you go right on sinning.
When you put on your next prayer-performance,
I'll be looking the other way.
No matter how long or loud or often you pray,
I'll not be listening.
And do you know why? Because you've been tearing
people to pieces, and your hands are bloody.
Go home and wash up.
Clean up your act.
Sweep your lives clean of your evildoings
so I don't have to look at them any longer.
Say no to wrong.
Learn to do good.
Work for justice.
(Isaiah 1)

I'm not sure prayer is always appropriate, esp at this time. First, the board may need to take on a whole new approach towards those who fund the organization...the board would do well to advertise, well in advance, the agenda...and that it is now willing to take donor and public comment on all their actions and policies beore decisions are made.

[appletree]

When <save3ABN> first opened up, people contacted Gailon with their comments both pro and con, as they were able to do so. When he shut it down, the comments continued as well as questions. When a representative of 3-ABN was quoted as saying that this was God's work, or words somewhat to that effect, the comments and questions continued, from those who were interested and know how to contact him. The publication of litigation documents in BSDA, which contained contact information for Gailon gave more peopleinformation as to how to contact him. People contacted him.
I have to assume that some of these people asked Gailon if he was going to renew the domain name registration. No, I have not been told that any did so. But, I assume that such happened.

The trouble with Gailon's answers to 3abn questions is this: He is usually wrong. Though he knew the date of the board meeting (as many people did) his statements of what would happen in the meeting were totally generic, speculative and wrong as usual. Once he put his "ideas" in writing, in people's minds they became facts. "Joy is in the know, he knows what is happening in the board meeting." This, is why there is a lawsuit. His stabs in the dark were exactly that, stabs in the dark....with no basis of fact whatsoever. As far as I can see, he was wrong on all counts concerning the boards agenda, Danny and the future outlook for 3abn.

How ironic that this board has been busy this past year saying how wrong it was for Danny to be placed on a pedestal and for people to take his word as if he were a prophet. And yet, the same is taking place here. Now that Joy is posting, his words are being passed around like they are coming from the President of the United States instead of a man who, court records show, has contradicted himself, given false information, given himself titles that he can't back up, and has done it all with an arrogant and unchristian character. Joy knows no more "Hidden Truths" about 3abn than someone on the street. He isn't "in the know" as has been proven time and time again when his speculation and opinions have played out. If anyone wanted "true" facts about 3abn, the Pickle/Joy team would be the last place you would go to find them.

[appletree]

my opinion based on what I have observed here for the past few years is that there are those who are not interested in any "realistic" closure nor are these same folks interested in stifling the urge to engage in speculation or innuendo...

So for them daily hashing and rehashing must continue....

Only if you, the admins, allow it.

[Clay]

Only if you, the admins, allow it.

we allow civil discussion regardless of our personal opinions about what is being discussed....