Word of Faith concepts, this is interesting IMO Options

[Clay]

Got this from another forum from a person who was in this type of church... their insight into this is interesting.... I wonder how much of this may have slipped into our way of thinking......check it out and share your thoughts...

What are some Word-of-Faith concepts in a nutshell?

Word-of-Faith is more or less the practice of positive confession in a Christian package. It is not an official movement as such, but some proponents of it are very popular, such as Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Marilyn Hickey, Joyce Meyer.... I am not saying that everything that they preach would be false, but the Word of Faith doctrine is not biblical. They believe that the words that they speak whether good or bad can have an effect on their surroundings, kind of like a magic spell. The difference they say, is that God makes their words come true. But God cannot be made to perform as if he were our servant. It is the other way around, He is our master. Romans 9 contains much about the sovereignty of God, here are verses 15 and 16. "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy."

The Word-of-Faith proponents are perhaps unknowingly making use of a very old concept called gnosticism. Gnosticism includes a wide range of beliefs, some of them being:

1. salvation is not by faith but by knowledge - gnostics are "those that know"

2. one returns to the parent spirit through repentance and the undoing of the sin of material existence, becoming one with it or becoming like it - in power as well as knowledge

3. salvation is a process (not by faith), the aquisition of wisdom leads to a return to the former state, by some seen in Adam and Eve. Some compare the revelations of the Holy Spirit to wisdom - Sophia.

4. An image of a perfect man called the Beginning, the Name of God, the Logos, immortal, incorruptible. This is a concept that has misused the person of Jesus Christ and applies it to all men. Christian theology says that we will all become sons of God, albeit adopted - status without power. Gnosticistic Christianity would say that we become just like God - status and power. That is what Satan wanted and why he was thrown out of heaven.

The "Name of Jesus" plays a large role in these ministries. Jesus' name contains his essence, so they say, by using it one starts becoming it.

The gnostic terms are seldom mentioned in sermons or books by the Word-of-Faith proponents, but they are couched in the more familiar biblical terminology, a sort of doublespeak. What they say and what you hear may not be the same thing.

The word "faith" for instance may take on a different meaning. "Faith is a power force. It is a tangible force. It is a conductive force", Kenneth Copeland, The Force of Faith, p. 13. "The force of faith is released by words. Faith-filled words put the law of the Spirit of life into operation", p. 18.

Hebrews 11 contains a list of what some have done by faith, but it is not defined as a force or power. Verse 1 says, "Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see." Having faith is believing, but even belief is not initiated by man, but by God if we consider the passage of Romans 9:16 above.

"The work of God is this: to believe in the one that he has sent." John 6:29.

"An this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us." 1 John 3:23.

The proponents say that faith is a force released by our actions, but the bible says differently.

"I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ - the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith." Our actions and words are and expression of faith, but they by no means release a power. They are evidence of faith and righteousness. Philippians 3:8,9.

The Word-of-Faith adherents believe in being cursed by sickness, demons or the words of others. Spiritual Warfare may then be required to "break the bonds" and "overcome". This then takes them a step further, sometimes they use their words to curse, citing the passage about the fruit tree that Jesus cursed because it had no fruit. I call that the flip-side of the Word-of-Faith coin. Pat Robertson has made public use of that concept as has Benny Hinn, causing embarassment throughout Christiandom. Jesus did rebuke the Pharisees, but he was speaking of what he could see in their hearts as one with the power to judge. We, however, cannot see into the hearts of others and cannot pass judgment over their souls, Jesus being the only one with authority to do that. We are commanded to love and be merciful and watchful I might add.

Some related subjects to gnosticism are pantheism, theosophy and alchemy. Other related subjects to Word-of-Faith are Spiritual Mapping and Spiritual Warfare and the Church Growth Movement.

[Selah]

Claborn,

People often think that if 'truth' is an straight line, then 'false' must be no line at all.

In reality, truth is an straight line and the false is an crooked line.

For instance the devil misquoted scripture for wrong purposes. Jesus quoted scripture correctly.

I said all that to say this. The opposite of "word of faith' thinking is not walking around doubting God, claiming bad things or talking in terms of nonfaith.

The real answer is to get it straight. Faith is not Faith in what you say. It is faith in God.

It is not what you believe in and say. It is WHOM you believe in and what He has said in His word.

Prosperity gospel combined with Psychobabble is an large part of the apostasy.

As the bible says: It is an perversion of the gospel of Christ.

[Clay]

so you said that to say what?

[Selah]

Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

An doctrine surrounding the importance of what an christian says is not so easily dismissed by trying to say it is an lie and an heresy from yesteryear.

It is more accurate to say that it is an perversion of the truth.

[Pibb]

Steve,
Is what you posted above the same thing or similar to a phrase I have heard many many times where people say "Speak into my life", or "Speak it into existence".
Pibb

This post has been edited by Pibb: Nov 13 2005, 05:06 AM

[Denny]

I have heard the 'speak into your life' phrase on channels like TBN etc and hear the occassional Adventist member use it. To me it did come across like some kind of magic spell , the Reformers recognised the concept of a human mediator to speak for one was not biblical so why are we talking about a similar concept via the back door based on a Pentacostal type this is the in thing to say? One does not need another to speak into ones life, yes we should pray for one another but we all have the ability to talk to God an ask Him to do the speaking, He will not bite.

This post has been edited by Denny: Nov 14 2005, 07:33 AM

[Clay]

Steve,
Is what you posted above the same thing or similar to a phrase I have heard many many times where people say "Speak into my life", or "Speak it into existence".
Pibb

I think so Pibb, which is why I posted it.... some of these phrases are the extension of a belief that these preachers are preaching.... I wanted to highlight it and see what it is and if was biblically supported....

[HUGGINS130]

Steve,
Is what you posted above the same thing or similar to a phrase I have heard many many times where people say "Speak into my life", or "Speak it into existence".
Pibb

Yes it is.

I think so Pibb, which is why I posted it.... some of these phrases are the extension of a belief that these preachers are preaching.... I wanted to highlight it and see what it is and if was biblically supported....

As for the speaking into one's life, or positive confession, this is the scripture they use to uphold that doctrine about positive confession...sure some of you have heard this scripture before...
Proverbs 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof...

[Selah]

You shall answer for every idol word.

Jesus said that.

I rebuke satan when I hear people saying what satan wants me to think. (remember Jesus rebuked satan coming from Peters mouth) Also the bible says do not sit in the seat of scorners or mockers. (pp)

So I do not believe and will rebuke someone who is trying to get me to doubt what the Lord has said in His word.

(or as an nice christian man put it....I do not let athiests explain Jesus nor any other part of the bible......i.e. nonbelievers have nothing to teach me about the bible or God)

I walk in faith and in expectation of the Lord.

I have been totally lost in an depression and had others say an bible verse and it leads to an total reversal of my depression. Jesus said His words were Spirit and life. So they have that ability.

I think all that praying for money and cadillacs is from the devil. A person in right standing with God does not pray for an expensive car to prop up thier pride and look good on the streets.

Often times these "blessings from God" that people "claimed it and named it" are in the form of: I worked real hard and charged it to my credit card and took 17 months to pay it off and look at the 1700 dollar shirt "God has blessed me with".

Ahh.....no. I think you bought that for yourself.

Besides which the wicked prosper. Getting fancy stuff is no sign that you are being blessed from God because of your faith.

WOF is prosperity gospel. Prosperity gospel is another gospel. It is false.

However, your words are still important.

[awesumtenor]

You shall answer for every idol word.

Jesus said that.

No, He didn't.

He said something about idle words... but nothing about idol words.

And yes, as a matter of fact, spelling *does* count... especially if you call yourself castigating another about the importance of what is said.

In His service,
Mr. J

[Selah]

Mr.j,

LOL

Thanks for the correction. I should spell check. I am notorious for writing here when I mean hear.

Good looking out. Smile.

[Denny]

Often times these "blessings from God" that people "claimed it and named it" are in the form of: I worked real hard and charged it to my credit card and took 17 months to pay it off and look at the 1700 dollar shirt "God has blessed me with".

Ahh.....no. I think you bought that for yourself.

[Clay]

More on Word of Faith.....

The Word of Faith movement or word-faith theology developed in the latter half of the 20th century in mainly Pentecostal and Charismatic churches. Its beginnings trace back to an early twentieth century evangelical pastor, E.W. Kenyon (1867-1948), who preached that God would award financial and other gifts if the faithful would ask. Kenyon coined the phrase, "What I confess, I possess." Kenneth E. Hagin is often credited with being the father of the modern Word of Faith movement, using a four-part formula he claimed to have received from Jesus: "Say it; do it; receive it; tell it."

Proponents of the doctrine include Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Benny Hinn (who renounced the doctrine in the 1990's), Joel Osteen, and Marilyn Hickey, among others. They teach that Christians must claim the grace God has promised them, whether in material goods, health, social position, or roles within the church.

Detractors, such as Ron J. Bigalke Jr., Norman Geisler, Hank Hanegraaff, Dave Hunt, and Roger Oakland, denounce word-faith theology as aberrant and contrary to the teachings of the Bible. Hanegraaff, among the others, claims that this teaching goes against God's sovereignty and his prerogative to grant or deny what the praying one asks for. Word of Faith theologians counter that they believe the Bible is God's will and they are having faith in His Word. Critics have also often noted a remarkable resemblence of key Word of Faith doctrines to Christian Science, and have demonstrated that some of the key leaders were likely influenced by Christian Science, thus establishing a direct descent (which Word of Faith leaders have vigorously denied). Critics have also objected that the Word of Faith movement distorts the Gospel and that the Bible condemns seeking wealth (Proverbs 23:4, 28:20, 1 Timothy 6:7-10, Matthew 19:23-24, Mark 10:23-25, Luke 18:24-25).

Detractors and proponents alike acknowledge that word-faith theology finds echoes in the "prosperity gospel" often preached on the Trinity Broadcasting Network.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_of_faith

[Clay]

"The myth of the poor Jesus needs to be destroyed, because it’s holding people back."

(Kaylois Henry, “Bishop Jakes Is Ready. Are You?,” The Dallas Observer magazine, June 20-26, 1996, pg. 31. PFO Quartely Journal Article)

Interesting the more I read....

[Selah]

Claborn,

You are finding mild comments. Here is an sight that chronicles all the speakers on TBN and more. They even have video's showing what they said, so you do not have to just believe them.

http://www.myfortress.org/FALSETEACHERS.html

There are more sites like this about the preachers on TBN leading some to call it "The Blasphemy Network".

I have seen when it aired on TBN, Kenneth Copeland say that you are an little GOD and that Jesus had an sin nature (You have an sin nature, so it is necessary to show Jesus with an sin nature to convince you, you can still be God with your sin nature.)

It is far worse than talking about cash. I have seen his wife say: it does not matter how they get into the Kingdom as long as they get in. She was talking about people coming in to make money. The bible says the complete opposite: stay away from those who think godliness is gain.