3ABN crucial documents, some context |
3ABN crucial documents, some context |
May 6 2006, 10:20 PM
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#16
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1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 2,015 Joined: 2-May 06 Member No.: 1,712 Gender: f |
QUOTE(watchbird @ May 6 2006, 10:14 PM) [snapback]129581[/snapback] Well maybe the first that 3ABN sent to Folkenberg. But this still is not the original document which was sent to 3ABN and was presumably the one which caused the reaction described by sister. . . . . I'll post the version that I have, and possibly you can confirm whether this was the one that was referred to by both sister and the documents that you posted. INTERNATIONAL SATELLITE DISTRIBUTION AGREEMENT This Satellite Distribution Agreement (Agreement) is made between the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists (GC), 12501 Old Columbia Pike, Silver Spring, Maryland 20904-6600, and Three Angels Broadcasting Network, Inc. (3ABN), RR#3, Box 176A, Thompsonville, IL 62890. 1. PURPOSE: This Agreement recognizes 3ABN as a non-exclusive interdivision satellite distributor of television programming produced by the GC and its affiliated entities and as a non-exclusive producer of television programming contracted for by the GC and affiliated entities, and setting forth the respective duties, obligations, and responsibilities of the parties. Nothing in this Agreement precludes 3ABN from producing and distributing by satellite other programs that do not otherwise violate the terms of this Agreement. Any additional cooperative communication initiatives will be the subject of future negotiations and written agreements. 2. RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PARTIES: A. The relationship between the parties shall be one of mutual cooperation in utilizing satellite distribution of television programming to proclaim the Gospel of our Lord to the whole world. The GC shall not be considered the agent or representative of 3ABN, and 3ABN shall not be considered the agent or representative of the GC, and neither shall hold itself out or otherwise represent itself as being the agent or representative of the other. Neither party shall have the right to bind the other contractually in any respect whatsoever. B. In their promotional efforts, both 3ABN and GC will recognize the contributions of the other. C. Financial appeals (other than regularly aired promotional programs and/or on-screen phone numbers) targeted for viewers outside of the North American Division, shall be undertaken only after consultation with the church governing bodies within the affected territory. D. Any financial relationship between a Church entity and 3ABN for distribution of programming will be documented by written agreement and approved beforehand by the designated GC body. 3. PROGRAMMING: A. Program production by Church: Church membership on all levels of the Church, through its elected representatives, may both provide programming to 3ABN for satellite distribution and may contract with 3ABN to produce programming for satellite distribution. B. Program continuation: Church membership, through its elected representatives, may request through the Issues Resolution Procedure of this Agreement the discontinuation of programming that is distributed by satellite by 3ABN to the territory they represent and which the membership considers detrimental to the work of the Church. C. Planning or other issues: All program production issues will be addressed by bodies designated by the General Conference Administrative Committee and which will include representatives of the affected world divisions, 3ABN, and the GC. 4. BROADCASTING AND DISTRIBUTION: A. So that 3ABN's services can optimally support the worldwide mission of the Church, committees or boards appointed by the General Conference Administrative Committee will be the channel for interaction between 3ABN and the world field for developing and distributing television programming by satellite and addressing technical, equipment, financial, distribution, and other related issues affecting those territories. B. Local or regional broadcast, cable, or other distribution systems for programs received from the 3ABN interdivision satellite distribution system will be either owned or contracted for as determined by the Church governing body in that territory or region. Should the Church governing body make no decision, 3ABN may initiate such contracts after receiving authorization by the church governing body, a request which shall not be unreasonably withheld. If the Church governing body refuses to respond to such a request 3ABN may initiate the issues resolution process. 5. ISSUES RESOLUTION: Both GC and 3ABN agree that no civil court has jurisdiction over this Agreement and that any issue, controversy, disagreement, or claim arising out of or relating to the breach of this Agreement shall be settled by using this issues resolution procedure. Wherever an issue arises, GC and 3ABN agree to resolve the issue as follows through their designated representatives: A. (Step 1) GC and 3ABN will communicate informally and attempt to resolve the issue. B. (Step 2) If informal communication does not resolve an issue and if the issue is not of an urgent nature, then it shall be placed on the agenda for review by an annual consultation, chaired by a designee of GC, and including representatives of 3ABN, the GC, and the world territories using 3ABN satellite distribution services, to review 3ABN programming and distribution services and unresolved issues. C. (Step 3) If informal communication and the annual meeting do not resolve an issue or if it is of an urgent nature, then the GC shall appoint and chair a special Issue Resolution Committee which shall include designated representatives of 3ABN and GC, and the affected territory or territories to consider and resolve the issue. D. (Step 4) If Steps 1, 2 and 3 do not resolve the issue, the chairman of the board of 3ABN and the GC by mutual agreement shall select a mediator who shall work with the parties to resolve the issue. (This step may come earlier in the process if the parties agree). E. (Step 5) If Steps 1 through 4 do not resolve the issue, the issue shall be referred to a three-member Binding Arbitration Committee (BAC) appointed by the General Conference Administrative Committee to review the issue and make a final determination. The General Conference Administrative Committee shall select members of the BAC as follows: (1) It shall request 3ABN and the affected division each to submit a list of three candidates for the BAC; (2) GC Administrative Committee will ask 3ABN to choose one name from the list of three submitted by the affected division and will ask the affected division to choose one name from the list of three submitted by 3ABN; (3) the two members thus selected will then choose any individual to be the third member of the BAC. The three members will choose the chairperson. Both parties agree to abide by the determination of the BAC. 6. TERM OF AGREEMENT: It is intended that this Agreement serve as a long term agreement. Therefore, this Agreement shall remain in effect until terminated by either party as provided for in this Agreement. Each party has the right to terminate this Agreement without cause by written notice given to the other party no less than ninety (90) days prior to the effective date of the notice. Either 3ABN or GC may terminate this Agreement, either in its totality or as it affects satellite distribution in a specific territory, effective immediately, by written notice given to the other party in any of the following events: A. if either party fails to fulfil or perform any one or more of the duties, obligations, or responsibilities it has undertaken under this Agreement; B. if either party assigns or attempts to assign any interest in this Agreement without the other party's written consent; C. if there is any transfer or relinquishment, voluntary or involuntary, by operation of law or otherwise of any material interest in the direct or indirect control or any change in management of 3ABN that the GC considers adverse to the interests of the Seventh-day Adventist Church or if 3ABN or any of its public personages or its board members become engaged in matters which the GC Administrative Committee considers adversely affects the interests or good name and good will or reputation of the Church. Upon termination of this Agreement in its totality, 3ABN shall cease to be an authorized broadcaster, distributor, and producer of programming for the GC and will discontinue all services represented to be affiliated with or on behalf of the Church, and neither party shall be responsible to the other for any damages growing out of the termination of this Agreement for any reason whatsoever, including any claim for lost or anticipated income, expenditures, or any other damages. In addition, upon termination of this Agreement, both parties agree to immediately discontinue the use of the names, trademarks, sign, stationery, advertising, or anything else that might make it appear that they are still operating under this Agreement. 7. TRADEMARKS, COPYRIGHTS, AND ORGANIZATIONAL IDENTITY: A. Both GC and 3ABN agree to refrain from any activity that leads to confusion, uncertainty, or misrepresentation regarding the use of their respective trademarks and trade names. B. Both the GC and 3ABN will respect the legal bounds that separate the GC from the independent 3ABN ministry. Nothing in this Agreement should be held to mean that the GC has assumed any corporate control of 3ABN and its independent programming or that 3ABN has assumed corporate control of the television programming of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. C. Copyrights of all 3ABN independent programming will continue to be owned and registered in the name of 3ABN, and copyrights of all programming produced by or for the GC and its affiliated entities will be owned and registered in the name of the GC and/or its affiliated entities. 8. UNCONTROLLABLE INTERFERENCE: Neither party shall be liable to the other for failure to perform its obligations under this Agreement due to fire, flood, earthquakes, disturbances, accidents, war, or other causes beyond the reasonable control of the parties. 9. NO ASSIGNMENT: Neither party of this Agreement may assign any right or interest in this Agreement without the prior written consent of the other party. 10. BINDING EFFECT & SEVERABILITY: This Agreement shall benefit and be binding upon the successors and assigns of the parties. If any part of this Agreement is void, voidable, invalid, or unenforceable, for any reason, this Agreement shall then be considered divisible as to such part with the remainder of this Agreement remaining a valid and binding. 11. COMPLETE UNDERSTANDING: This Agreement terminates and supersedes all prior agreements between the parties, if any. This Agreement sets forth the entire Agreement between the parties. This Agreement may be changed, altered, or amended only in writing signed by an authorized representative of each party. |
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May 7 2006, 06:03 PM
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#17
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 262 Joined: 1-February 06 Member No.: 1,556 Gender: m |
QUOTE(watchbird @ May 6 2006, 10:20 PM) [snapback]129583[/snapback] INTERNATIONAL SATELLITE DISTRIBUTION AGREEMENT This Satellite Distribution Agreement (Agreement) is made between the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists (GC), 12501 Old Columbia Pike, Silver Spring, Maryland 20904-6600, and Three Angels Broadcasting Network, Inc. (3ABN), RR#3, Box 176A, Thompsonville, IL 62890. 1. PURPOSE: ... Thanks for that. The GC legal team did make sure that on paper the GC/SDA...3ABN lines are not blurred. However in practice and in the mind of viewers the distinctions might be lost. -------------------- "I believe what my church teaches.
My church teaches what I believe. My church and I believe the same thing."--The Apostate's Creed. |
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May 7 2006, 07:12 PM
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#18
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1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 2,015 Joined: 2-May 06 Member No.: 1,712 Gender: f |
QUOTE(Zephyr @ May 7 2006, 06:03 PM) [snapback]129673[/snapback] Thanks for that. The GC legal team did make sure that on paper the GC/SDA...3ABN lines are not blurred. However in practice and in the mind of viewers the distinctions might be lost. Be sure you sort these documents out carefully in your mind. The contract that I posted was the one offered to 3ABN by the GC that 3ABN rejected and refused to sign. Sister gave a graphic description of the meeting and Beartrap posted Folkenberg's public announcement of the fact that 3ABN had refused to agree to the contract. In the same post, beartrap posted the 3ABN letter of rejection, and also a "Statement of Commitment of 3ABN to the Work of the SDA Church". Both Beartrap and I mentioned a letter from Bill Hulsey, but so far neither of us have gotten around to posting it. Maybe I'll get it done tonight. Thanks for your interest. And I'd be interested in yours, or anyone's, more detailed analysis or opinon on the document. Would you, as a neutral bystander have considered that this sounded like a "hostile takeover" as it has been said that those at 3ABN saw it? |
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May 8 2006, 06:21 AM
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#19
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1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 2,015 Joined: 2-May 06 Member No.: 1,712 Gender: f |
For what it is worth, here is the letter mentioned in the material Beartrap posted previously.
A Letter From William J. Hulsey April 16, 1997 To: The Board of Directors of 3ABN Fellow Board Members, The topic of signing an agreement with the General Conference has held top priority for many of us over a considerable period of time and has engaged us in seemingly endless hours of thought and discussion and prayer. Yet I respectfully request your audience once more by way of a few personal thoughts. First I need to say that I have an abiding sense of loyalty to the Seventh-day Adventist church. Secondly, I have tremendous respect for Elder Bob Folkenberg who has been commissioned with the heavy responsibilities of leadership of the world-wide Church. Thirdly, as a member of the 3ABN Board for eleven years, I have witnessed the origins, the struggles, the victories and the unprecedented growth of this dedicated ministry, and I'm persuaded that God had His Hand in these affairs also that they might reflect His Glory. At this crucial point in time, I'm reminded of Mordecai's challenge to Queen Esther, "Who Knoweth whether though art come to the kingdom for such a time as this?" God has a plan for us and the consequences are of such gravity that no effort is too great to find assurance that we are aligned with His Will. Elder Folkenberg has accorded distinct honor to 3ABN with an invitation to join hands with the world Church for the purpose of reaching the masses more expeditiously and we acknowledge the gesture with humility and gratitude. This is certainly a worthy common objective and one which 3ABN has devoted its every effort toward. For years we have wrestled with matters involving how best to direct our programming so as to remain true to Church and Biblical principles while retaining our position as a supporting ministry. Our Board is composed of individuals from a variety of professional backgrounds, but we all agreed and were determined to see that such a course be outlined and followed. We have felt that the Lord has honored that commitment by granting success as measured by listener acceptance. We want to assure Elder Folkenberg and his colleagues that this determination has not moderated. My thoughts revert to the beginning of 3ABN when Ellsworth McKee and I responded to the invitation to become charter Board members. We had no previous experience with television broadcasting. Danny & Linda and the Shelton family were enthusiastically engaged in planning and personal involvement with the project but they too were as inexperienced as we. We saw miracle after miracle as funds were directed to us from unexpected sources and the concept materialized step by step. The Lord has taken this amateurish beginning and used it to His glory. As we watch 3ABN now, as I do almost daily, I see a great variety of programs encouraging people to live more healthfully and positively. All of them are done tastefully and without sham or pretense. Danny & Linda present an image that depicts how Christianity is lived out in the home atmosphere. Viewers can easily relate to this concept of Christianity. In addition to the variety programs we air a number of very fine SDA ministers, including those of the Media Center, all of who present the special truths identified with the work of the Three Angels. For several weeks I have struggled with the concern of how these unique qualities of 3ABN programming could be preserved while at the same time laboring under a formal agreement to place priorities on needs and programming of the Church entity. My fear is that we would be placing our present ministry under great risk by accepting this additional responsibility. I have prayed earnestly for the power of the Holy Spirit to give us insight so that we could feel confident in a united course of action. I sense that our 3ABN board officers and staff were gratified with our joint effort in broadcasting NET 96. The Church appealed to 3ABN for utilization of our signal in order to project the series into Europe and it was sheer joy to participate in this unprecedented evangelistic thrust. There was no formal contractual agreement, and in spite of limited time restraints, there was beautiful coordination and the churches successfully received the messages. It seems that it was that measure of success that gives impetus to the practicality of plans for future advances. 3ABN can do that type thing well, and we would welcome similar opportunities in the future. It would therefore seem wise that 3ABN continue to follow the course that we have found to be successful. We dare not abandon the scores of viewers who have testified that our appeal is to the churched and unchurched, the discouraged, those without hope, those searching for Truth. We point them to the Church, the earthly repository of Truth, that they may be nurtured and fulfilled. Where baptisms result, the Church is benefited and strengthened. If these thoughts have merit, the board action of April 14 would need to be modified somewhat. I would like to see our Board reaffirm our devotion to our Lord, restate our loyalty to the Seventh-day Adventist Church, reconfirm our sense of respect and support for Elder Folkenberg and his fellow officers at the helm, and redouble our efforts to do better that which the Lord has signally blessed thus far. Further we would pledge to assist in any way possible the program and projects of the Corporate Church Body, motivated simply by the premise that God's Will is their Will and our Will. The tie that binds us together is love, respect and common beliefs and objectives. Respectfully, William J. Hulsey, Board Member, 3ABN |
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May 8 2006, 10:39 AM
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#20
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 262 Joined: 1-February 06 Member No.: 1,556 Gender: m |
QUOTE(watchbird @ May 7 2006, 07:12 PM) [snapback]129677[/snapback] Be sure you sort these documents out carefully in your mind. The contract that I posted was the one offered to 3ABN by the GC that 3ABN rejected and refused to sign. Sister gave a graphic description of the meeting and Beartrap posted Folkenberg's public announcement of the fact that 3ABN had refused to agree to the contract. In the same post, beartrap posted the 3ABN letter of rejection, and also a "Statement of Commitment of 3ABN to the Work of the SDA Church". Thanks for that clarification. I can't for the life of me see why 3ABN rejected this agreement. And no it does not sound like any kind of takeover. The SDA church, I am confident, has no interest in taking over 3ABN. It just does not make sense from any angle. I'd like to hear more about 3ABN's reasons/excuses for rejection. -------------------- "I believe what my church teaches.
My church teaches what I believe. My church and I believe the same thing."--The Apostate's Creed. |
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May 9 2006, 04:40 AM
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#21
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1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 2,015 Joined: 2-May 06 Member No.: 1,712 Gender: f |
QUOTE(Zephyr @ May 8 2006, 10:39 AM) [snapback]129780[/snapback] Thanks for that clarification. I can't for the life of me see why 3ABN rejected this agreement. And no it does not sound like any kind of takeover. The SDA church, I am confident, has no interest in taking over 3ABN. It just does not make sense from any angle. I'd like to hear more about 3ABN's reasons/excuses for rejection. Thanks for your interest. While Beartrap would be the only one (that I know of) who is posting here that could give you an "insiders" (at that time) view of the rationale given around 3ABN itself, I can give background information on the underlying reasons for the rejection of the contract. In the packet of information sent out at the time from 3ABN, there was also a copy of an evaluation of the contract that was done by a 3ABN lawyer. I don't think I understand the legaleze enough to even be real sure as to what it said. It's lengthy, but I can post it here if anyone is interested in examining it. But that is of little value, since the real reasons they rejected the contract do not lie with the specific items, but with the idea of having a formal "signed contract" of any kind. In partial "defense" of the rejection it is only fair to point out that at the time this came up, not only independent ministries, but official church institutions, especially educational institutions of higher learning, were also concerned about Folkenberg's efforts to get everyone in line with his thinking, even to the extent of trying to require "loyalty oaths" on key points of practice and doctrine. So from one angle 3ABN could be excused for resisting a contract on this basis. However, that is not the whole story, nor does that account for 3ABN's resistance from the beginning to taking any guidance or to having any lines of accountability to the church they claimed to be serving. That the "reasons" do not lie in the specific stipulations of the contract itself, but in something much more basic than that, can be seen by a careful reading of the letter from Bill Hulsey, which I posted yesterday. If you will notice, he makes no complaints about specific language or requirements in the proposed contract. His objections are to the very notion of having any contract at all. This may not be seen as significant by those not acquainted with the attitudes held in the old "self-supporting work" which are held as models for many (though not all) "Independent Ministries" today. The primary one being a deep distrust of what they call the "organized work", that is to say the Conference structures. The phrase "kingly powers", when applied to church leaders, comes straight from these sources. And the condemnation and fear of control by the "organized church" which this phrase indicates, follows recognized psychological functions of betraying their own desire for control, as can be clearly seen as one examines this type of Independent Ministry. If you combine this with the principles (almost doctrines) held by these groups--that of the function of the "prophet, priest, and king" God assigned roles, then you have the solid, unshakable ground for resistance to any "signed contract" which deprives (or even limits) the power, control, and even leadership (of the church itself) function of the Independent Ministry. Thus the very idea of having a "signed contract" is anathema to them, as the letter from Hulsey indicates. |
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May 9 2006, 11:35 AM
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#22
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5,000 + posts Group: Administrator Posts: 19,829 Joined: 20-July 03 From: Alabama Member No.: 4 Gender: m |
this thread was started to put all the documents in one place for review.... (if I find them all that is.....)
-------------------- "you are as sick as your secrets...." -quote from Celebrity Rehab-
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May 9 2006, 09:37 PM
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#23
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1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 1,521 Joined: 17-October 04 From: Iceland, formerly Denmark, Norway, USA, Sierra Leone, Nigeria, Faeroe Islands. Bound for Heaven. Member No.: 686 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Zephyr @ May 8 2006, 05:39 PM) [snapback]129780[/snapback] Thanks for that clarification. I can't for the life of me see why 3ABN rejected this agreement. And no it does not sound like any kind of takeover. The SDA church, I am confident, has no interest in taking over 3ABN. It just does not make sense from any angle. I'd like to hear more about 3ABN's reasons/excuses for rejection. When I entered the sphere of 3ABN six years later the Folkenberg shake was still an important part of the Danny Shelton rhetoric. He made frequent comments on this great crisis in the history of 3ABN. As I recall it he would give as the main reason for rejecting Folkenberg's onslaught, that Danny Shelton's power of control would be curbed. He could no longer decide himself, without external influence, what could be aired on 3ABN. Danny's role would merely be travelling around the world as the main fund-raiser to send programs that he might not even approve of. As a proof that only 3ABN under the control of Danny Shelton should transmit the Advent message he'd give some horrible examples of how Faith for Today had distorted the TRUTH, and therfore only Danny Shelton should decide what the Church presents to the World. -------------------- "Any fact that needs to be disclosed should be put out now or as quickly as possible, because otherwise the bleeding will not end." (Attributed to Henry Kissinger) "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it" (Martin Luther King) "The truth can lose nothing by close investigation". (1888 Materials 38) |
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May 10 2006, 07:33 AM
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#24
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site admin Group: Owner Posts: 2,833 Joined: 17-July 03 From: Omaha, Nebraska Member No.: 1 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Zephyr @ May 8 2006, 11:39 AM) [snapback]129780[/snapback] Thanks for that clarification. I can't for the life of me see why 3ABN rejected this agreement. And no it does not sound like any kind of takeover. The SDA church, I am confident, has no interest in taking over 3ABN. It just does not make sense from any angle. I'd like to hear more about 3ABN's reasons/excuses for rejection. Every business transaction or contract has to be a win-win, both sides have to benefit. IMO, 3abn had very little to gain, they did not need any kind of official endorsement from the Church it was already very successful. What really was the Church bring to the table in exchange for it’s desire for content control? Not much, 3abn did not need the Church for gains in views or donations, they had access to local churches, doubt if the Church could offer any technical expertise that 3abn did not have or could find somewhere else. Maybe the Church could offer some official church programming that 3abn did not have, but they may not have desired the programming anyway. All the nicely worded letters aside; 3abn did a BUSINESS cost/benefit analysis and said no thanks. Just from my cursory review and with hindsight, IMO it was a good decision for 3abn. The best thing the Church could have done was to create Hope TV. 3abn has a monopoly on Adventist broadcast. It needed some competition. |
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Guest_statrei_* |
May 10 2006, 07:46 AM
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#25
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QUOTE(calvin @ May 10 2006, 08:33 AM) [snapback]130124[/snapback] All the nicely worded letters aside; 3abn did a BUSINESS cost/benefit analysis and said no thanks. Just from my cursory review and with hindsight, IMO it was a good decision for 3abn. The best thing the Church could have done was to create Hope TV. 3abn has a monopoly on Adventist broadcast. It needed some competition. Agreed. An important aside to this is that a bad result does not necessarily mean that the intent behind the original action was bad. Even though bad intent may creep in over time we should resist the temptation to automatically backdate it. |
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May 10 2006, 12:17 PM
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#26
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 262 Joined: 1-February 06 Member No.: 1,556 Gender: m |
QUOTE(calvin @ May 10 2006, 07:33 AM) [snapback]130124[/snapback] Every business transaction or contract has to be a win-win, both sides have to benefit. IMO, 3abn had very little to gain, they did not need any kind of official endorsement from the Church it was already very successful. What really was the Church bring to the table in exchange for it’s desire for content control? Not much, 3abn did not need the Church for gains in views or donations, they had access to local churches, doubt if the Church could offer any technical expertise that 3abn did not have or could find somewhere else. Maybe the Church could offer some official church programming that 3abn did not have, but they may not have desired the programming anyway. All the nicely worded letters aside; 3abn did a BUSINESS cost/benefit analysis and said no thanks. Just from my cursory review and with hindsight, IMO it was a good decision for 3abn. The best thing the Church could have done was to create Hope TV. 3abn has a monopoly on Adventist broadcast. It needed some competition. Your analysis is correct Mr C. The move by the church was kind of visionary--I am sure they foresaw situations like what now obtains at 3ABN. IOW it was a bid for some amount of control, however constituted. 3ABN (or its succesor) will always have an edge over the church. The church is too complicated (not complex) in its management structure and its systems of accountability to do well in any venture requiring entrepreneurial drive. 3ABN may have moral problems and other kinds of skullduggery but it delivers good programming that its viewers and patrons like. -------------------- "I believe what my church teaches.
My church teaches what I believe. My church and I believe the same thing."--The Apostate's Creed. |
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Guest_statrei_* |
May 10 2006, 12:29 PM
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#27
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QUOTE(Zephyr @ May 10 2006, 01:17 PM) [snapback]130167[/snapback] The move by the church was kind of visionary--I am sure they foresaw situations like what now obtains at 3ABN. IOW it was a bid for some amount of control, however constituted. Visionary is not the word I would use but that episode does reflect the results of flawed "remnant" thinking. Why would the GC think they could present 3ABN with a contract for them to sign? One would think that such a contract would arise out of talks and negotiations between the two entities. However, remnant thinking can result in strange behavior. |
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May 10 2006, 12:54 PM
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#28
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 262 Joined: 1-February 06 Member No.: 1,556 Gender: m |
QUOTE(statrei @ May 10 2006, 12:29 PM) [snapback]130168[/snapback] Visionary is not the word I would use but that episode does reflect the results of flawed "remnant" thinking. Why would the GC think they could present 3ABN with a contract for them to sign? One would think that such a contract would arise out of talks and negotiations between the two entities. However, remnant thinking can result in strange behavior. I don't know if there were any such negotiations and I wouldn't be surprised if there were none or little. I don't believe it was "remnant thinking" (at least not in the pejorative sense) that motivated them. I think they anticipated a successful 3ABN and wanted to preempt any negative fallout for the church should things go bad at 3ABn. I think the backdrop to this contract is the tv scandals of the 80's and early 90's. The irony is that 3ABN is so powerful they can't do a thing...no matter what. Too many are feeding at the 3ABN trough. This post has been edited by Zephyr: May 10 2006, 12:57 PM -------------------- "I believe what my church teaches.
My church teaches what I believe. My church and I believe the same thing."--The Apostate's Creed. |
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May 10 2006, 01:19 PM
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#29
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1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 1,521 Joined: 17-October 04 From: Iceland, formerly Denmark, Norway, USA, Sierra Leone, Nigeria, Faeroe Islands. Bound for Heaven. Member No.: 686 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Zephyr @ May 10 2006, 08:54 PM) [snapback]130173[/snapback] The irony is that 3ABN is so powerful they can't do a thing...no matter what. Too many are feeding at the 3ABN trough. It has come to the question if it is 3ABN running the Church or the Church running what? How long will the Church tolerate being run by 3ABN? -------------------- "Any fact that needs to be disclosed should be put out now or as quickly as possible, because otherwise the bleeding will not end." (Attributed to Henry Kissinger) "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it" (Martin Luther King) "The truth can lose nothing by close investigation". (1888 Materials 38) |
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May 10 2006, 05:39 PM
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#30
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 274 Joined: 4-April 06 Member No.: 1,655 Gender: f |
QUOTE(Johann @ May 10 2006, 02:19 PM) [snapback]130174[/snapback] It has come to the question if it is 3ABN running the Church or the Church running what? How long will the Church tolerate being run by 3ABN? I know that I must sound like a broken record. But I hope that the church leaders will realize what their full confidence in the actions of the President of 3ABN are doing to the young foks in the church who are looking for their church leaders to help them find the way. After all, isn't that why we take our older teenagers to church and try to get them involved in the SDA religion who touts Danny as one who has been spoken to by God? I have some of these older teenagers living in my house, and they used to watch 3ABN faithfully--especially on Sabbath. Now when they see him come on to talk about "Mending Broken People" they laugh and want to know if he has gotten rid of this wife and is looking for another. This is a joke to them, but it should not be overlooked by the familiar faces of our preachers that they see on 3ABN everyday. They are entirely losing confidence in the morality of the church as a whole. |
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