3ABN crucial documents, some context Options

[Clay]

my kids are not looking at 3abn for role models. I encourage my children to have a relationship with God, not with a church or a denomination.... that is where we have erred....

[Hersheys99]

my kids are not looking at 3abn for role models. I encourage my children to have a relationship with God, not with a church or a denomination.... that is where we have erred....

I agree that is what we should teach our kids & that is what I taught mine as well. BUT unfortunately kids do look to others as role models cause if they didnt' then we would have no need of the super stars, etc. that kids look up too. I know my older girls seen a lot of stuff in the "leadership" in these so called churches & their kids, etc. to turn them off somewhat. One of them isn't even in church/religion today in any capacity. No the "church" isn't entirely to blame but when they see those in leadership roles & their kids doing things that are WRONG as WRONG can be & nothing being done about it even when it is brought to their attention it does hurt our kids relationship with God.

I know growing up I was the same way even though I was told we shouldn't look to leadership, etc. but to God. Being told that & following that is 2 different things. I hope and pray that your kids can adhere to that as it will save them a lot of heartache & undue stress if they can. Just keep telling them that & hopefully it sticks with them & that is the course they will follow.

[Clay]

when we teach our kids to think for themselves then they learn to look behind the curtain, they are not impressed with the hype and they figure out quite quickly that we are all human... as I have said in other threads... church is overrated... and unfortunately some leaders in the church take themselves way too seriously...

[Hersheys99]

I agree church is totally overrated as do some leaders take themselves way too serioiusly. What is sad is when you talk to these leaders & they have one excuse after another why they are doing what they are doing & they make you look like you are the one with the problem, etc. Hence one reason I am no longer in the church I really felt part of & like family there. Now I am so disillusioned as a whole with the churches I haven't found one I care to attend full time.

[PaperTigers]

I agree Hersh...
sometimes even if you teach your kids to think for themselves, they have a tendency to look to others who are put in front of them as role models. Hopefully they are able to differentiate between the real and the fake, but oftentimes the two are so close that it's hard to tell.

[Johann]

I agree Hersh...
sometimes even if you teach your kids to think for themselves, they have a tendency to look to others who are put in front of them as role models. Hopefully they are able to differentiate between the real and the fake, but oftentimes the two are so close that it's hard to tell.

Sad to say, but not only children follow role models. Public radio in Norway has announced that the chairman of the board of 3ABN Europe, is evading arrest by police for his immoral acts. Is he following his role model from 3ABN?

[summertime]

Sad to say, but not only children follow role models. Public radio in Norway has announced that the chairman of the board of 3ABN Europe, is evading arrest by police for his immoral acts. Is he following his role model from 3ABN?

A problem is that, as I have posted before, there are way too many parents who pay for their children to go to our academies and colleges, plunk them there thinking that they will be trained and influenced properly, and then they go home to their lives thinking little about the influence the teachers and the fellow students will have on them. Actually, I doubt if a lot of them care at all. Then the Bible teachers in the academy sing the praises of Danny Shelton and 3ABN (look at what happened at Andrews University). Our children, even through the tender years that they are absorbing a life style in our colleges, are influenced by the supposed leaders of our church, and when they glorify 3ABN, then the children will do so also. I see it in my own home.
And I was shocked at the post that Johann made this morning that the 3ABN Europe Chairman of the board is running from the police because he has been acting immorally. Shades of what has happened in other churches, and does not anybody care? So we sit and allow this to happen in the organizations that preach the 3rd angels message? This whole thing should prompt us to sit up and notice how the next generation will follow. In shielding these men (and women) who act improperly, we are harming our world of tomorrow

Isn't 3ABN Europe a part of 3ABN? What does the home base in T'ville control in regards to 3ABN Europe?

This post has been edited by summertime: May 15 2006, 08:29 AM

[awesumtenor]

my kids are not looking at 3abn for role models.

While this is true, even things that touch us peripherally affect us... as Watchman Nee notes when, regarding footwashing, he says:

...the point about the dust on our feet is this, that in walking through the world, no matter who we are or how careful we may be, it is inevitable table that our feet will collect something. Of course if we do not touch the earth at all, we certainly pick up nothing, but to achieve this we should have to be carried around. If we do touch the ground-and who seriously expects not to?-we are certain to pick up what is there. Even our Lord Jesus rebuked his host with the words: "Thou gavest me no water for my feet" (Luke 7:44). So please remember that the mutual washing in John 13 is not concerned with sins committed, for which there is always forgiveness through the Blood, but from which anyway God intends that we should be delivered. No, it is concerned rather with our daily walk through the world, during which it is unavoidable that we shall contract something. "Ye are clean," Jesus says. The precious Blood sees to that. "He that is bathed needeth not ..." and as far as sin is concerned the sentence might end there. But move about in Satan's kingdom and something certainly clings to us. Like a film upon us it comes between us and our Lord. This is inescapable, simply because we are touching the world's things all the time, its business and its pleasures, its corrupt scale of values and its whole ungodly outlook. Hence the words with which Jesus concludes: "... save to wash his feet."

One need not be a 'role model' to affect others... for good or ill... especially if the ones being influenced are children.

In His service,
Mr. J

[Panama_Pete]

Sad to say, but not only children follow role models. Public radio in Norway has announced that the chairman of the board of 3ABN Europe, is evading arrest by police for his immoral acts. Is he following his role model from 3ABN?

That story being circulated on Public Radio must be rather unsettling for many who see these folks as leaders and role models.

[summertime]

my kids are not looking at 3abn for role models. I encourage my children to have a relationship with God, not with a church or a denomination.... that is where we have erred....

Clay, do your children go to Sabbath School--do they admire their teachers? Do they sit in the church service with you and watch as you carefully listen to and agree with what the pastor has said? As sure as you are sitting there with them they are learning to love and respect the speakers of the moment--unless you belabor them to ignore the examples of the leaders who stand before
them. My children loved and admired those who led them in worship service---and heaven forbid that any of them would lead our children and youth away from the will of God. I think that is what we are seeing today when they joyfully watch 'Tiny Tots for Jesus' and all the rest. How are these leaders showing love to the 'squished' and the downtrodden? "By their fruits you will know them."

This post has been edited by summertime: May 15 2006, 03:29 PM

[summertime]

That story being circulated on Public Radio must be rather unsettling for many who see these folks as leaders and role models.

To tell you the truth, that story being circulated on Public Radio in Norway, about anyone connected to the name of Seventh Day Adventist being in the position of running from the police, is rather unsettling to me.

[Clay]

Clay, do your children go to Sabbath School--do they admire their teachers? Do they sit in the church service with you and watch as you carefully listen to and agree with what the pastor has said? As sure as you are sitting there with them they are learning to love and respect the speakers of the moment--unless you belabor them to ignore the examples of the leaders who stand before
them. My children loved and admired those who led them in worship service---and heaven forbid that any of them would lead our children and youth away from the will of God. I think that is what we are seeing today when they joyfully watch 'Tiny Tots for Jesus' and all the rest. How are these leaders showing love to the 'squished' and the downtrodden? "By their fruits you will know them."

my children don't like sabbath school because it does not challenge them to think, as much as it continues the indoctrination process. They may or may not sit with me in church, and if the sermon is full of cliche's or questionable things (yes I make the determination of what is questionable) then we leave. If we do say we process the content of the sermon pointing out what was good or not.... we raised our kids to think, to question, even question what we say, to test it... so our experience has been somewhat different....

[Johann]

To tell you the truth, that story being circulated on Public Radio in Norway, about anyone connected to the name of Seventh Day Adventist being in the position of running from the police, is rather unsettling to me.

Pray for him. . . Often they catch the small fish while the big ones remain.

[awesumtenor]

Pray for him. . . Often they catch the small fish while the big ones remain.

What did he do to run afoul of the authorities? I have been able to find no reporting of this anywhere... not even from church sources.

In His service,
Mr. J

[watchbird]

What did he do to run afoul of the authorities? I have been able to find no reporting of this anywhere... not even from church sources.

In His service,
Mr. J

Yes, Johann, how about sharing with us. If it is on public radio in Norway, it can't be too private to share on BSDA. And what about internet news from Norway. Maybe we have someone here who can translate if you gave us some urls. I wouldn't expect the official church to be making any comment, especially since this is an independent ministry rather than an offical church entity. But can you tell us any of the comments that have been made about it in an unofficial way from Adventists in that section of the world?