Somthing Interesting... Options

[watchbird]

TLC, he isn't? I thought he was.

You are correct. He was... probably for more years than anyone else posting on this board. But now he isn't. You might want to go to his profile and read all of his posts. You would find out a lot of interesting things about him.... and about a lot of things that are interesting. And you would doubtless get a better idea as to why so many of us put so much weight on what he says. And once you did that, you just might find that you would be a lot less "bewildered". (Or at least you would be bewildered about different things and at a different level.)

[PrincessDrRe]

I too have skeletons in my closet...but I am not trying to destroy innocent people by using "powerful" people to do my dirty work.

Maybe if you had been there and under the dictates of the ungodly leader, you would have seen the lives destroyed by his tactics...with the help of these "friends"...

Yes, I would like to see justice done or at least a true public repentance to all affected, full restitution and a change in their life style/actions.

This is dead on pernt.

I really don't understand the people that just want to "let things go" and let GOD handle it.

I guess they don't realize that GOD works through people on Earth...today!

That is how he is working!

[justme]

Oh, how true it is that we need to see what we generally call "justice". The bible is full of stories of men of God who "blew it" so to speak, and yet the people oif God were made to see what happens when spiritual leaders follow "self" or "other poor advise" and hurt God's children and God's work.

I don't remember any offenses that God "let go" of and failed to reveal the offense OR the punishment!

Be not deceived, God is NOT mocked, whatsoever a man sows that shall he also reap". IT"S HARVEST TIME!

Forgiveness, ... yes, forgiveness means that I am not going to PERMIT the "trespass" keep me from praying for the "trespassor". If I continue to hold the trespass against my brother, AND, I fail to pray FOR his salvation, I have not forgiven him. there are those who prey FOR God to "PUNISH" trespassors" by letting the victim SEE that punishment. This does not come under the heading of "love your enemies, do good to them that hate you..". But it can be the hardest thing in the world to do.

I also struggle with my feelings when I see abuse of children, wives, animals, ... it enrages my sensibilities. I have to control my actions because the natural impulse it to RETALIATE immediately.

When I see those precious children on 'Kids Time" and all the other shows, I cringe at the idea of what some of them might have had to endure. I can't find in my heart the ability to "forgive" the offenders, but I will pray for their salvation, and for the healing of those children.

((Oh,NO!) I see Danny is back on at PMC. I gotta edit this part out of my recordings.) (Shame on me, ..... sorta).

Didn't David, the Psalmist, have these fluctuating feelings, about Saul?
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[PeacefulBe]

You are correct. He was... probably for more years than anyone else posting on this board. But now he isn't. You might want to go to his profile and read all of his posts. You would find out a lot of interesting things about him.... and about a lot of things that are interesting. And you would doubtless get a better idea as to why so many of us put so much weight on what he says. And once you did that, you just might find that you would be a lot less "bewildered". (Or at least you would be bewildered about different things and at a different level.)

I will do so. Thanks

Er, how do you read a person's posts on their profile? I just went to beartraps and can't find any such button. I'm bewildered. hehe.

This post has been edited by PeacefullyBewildered: Sep 23 2006, 06:33 PM

[watchbird]

I will do so. Thanks

Er, how do you read a person's posts on their profile? I just went to beartraps and can't find any such button. I'm bewildered. hehe.

I know the feeling..... it isn't obvious on the first try. But look at the right upper corner of the profile screen..... see the box that says "profile options". Click on that, and "Find Member's posts" will be the first choice. Click on that and you will find small windows for each post.... and in the case of Beartrap, page after page of posts. You can scroll down in each window to see the full post, or if you wish to see the dialogue of which it is a part, click on the "post preview" number and you'll be taken to the post in its thread context.

Enjoy.

[PeacefulBe]

I know the feeling..... it isn't obvious on the first try. But look at the right upper corner of the profile screen..... see the box that says "profile options". Click on that, and "Find Member's posts" will be the first choice. Click on that and you will find small windows for each post.... and in the case of Beartrap, page after page of posts. You can scroll down in each window to see the full post, or if you wish to see the dialogue of which it is a part, click on the "post preview" number and you'll be taken to the post in its thread context.

Enjoy.

Thanks!

[watchbird]

"beartrap", "watchbird", "simplysaved", "brothersam":
Thank you for your comments. I can see we are very, very close in our thinking. I really appreciate your posts.

In regards to the "forgiveness" thing, I was remembering being taught to forgive this was because of the "Lord's prayer" reference to forgiveness. .."forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who have trespassed against us..".

Thanks for the thanks... and as for "forgiveness".....

Ah yes..... and generations of us got a wrong idea of the forgiveness of God because of the way in which this text was taught..... seeming to make God's forgiveness predicated upon how we forgive. I know the feeling.... been there, thought that..... and even when I moved beyond that it took a long time to see a lot of the other wrong concepts about forgiveness that we have all too often "been taught"..... or perhaps that we have "caught" from those around us.

I think I mentioned it somewhere else, but I'll repeat here.... the book by Lewis B. Smedes having to do with forgiveness is simply the best bar none that I have run across. The title sounds trite, until you read the expanded subtitle Forgive and Forget: Healing the Hurts We Don't Deserve . I highly recommend it. (He has written a newer version, which probably expands on some things that might have been unclear in the first, but so far I have not read it so don't know if it adds anything of real necessity or not.

But the first is a "must read"..... and especially so for those who find themselves in a situation where they have received hurts they simply did not deserve.

Smedes answers questions we seldom ask ... for starters.... What is forgiveness? What is it not? What does it mean to "forget"? Is that possible? Is it desirable? But we can come back to that later if you wish.....

Help me with understanding the "Karma" thing. I was made to understand that it's like reaping what we have sown; or even, "what goes around comes around" type thing.

To understand Karma one must first understand the religious system from which the word comes, for there is no comparable concept in Christianity. Saharafan can probably help us better with this than what I can.... but as a beginning.....

The "wheel of Karma" has to do with the belief that life goes on through multitudinous reincarnations until such a time as that particular entity has completely cleansed itself of all wrongdoing.... at which time it is permitted to go back to the "whole".... as a drop of water to the ocean.... losing all of its self-identity and self-awareness in the bliss of eternal "oneness" and oblivian. There is no explanation for how the idea of wrong and right arose in the first place nor how the entity which is currently "incarnated" as a living object (insect, animal, human) managed to accumulate so much negative karma as to need yet another reincarnation. But once one's karma has been fixed for this life, there is no way of moving from one station to another (obvious when thinking of an insect changing to an animal, not at all obvious to the Christian when one thinks of moving from an "untouchable" caste to another "higher" caste of humans.) For any "good" karma that one might accumulate is only applicable to one's next incarnation, and to fail to maintain one's assigned lot in this life would work to accumulate more "bad" karma for the next. This underlies to some extent the resistance to mission work which seeks to improve the lot of the unfortunates. Fortunately there are real efforts in those countries dominated by this thought system to eliminate the caste system, so humanitarian and mission work is more welcome than at some times in the past.

Restitution!?! Absolutely, I agree. Biblically we have seen the instruction to restore SEVEN-FOLD what has been taken illegally. No wouldn't THAT go over big at 3ABN.

What if 3ABN supporters who have been supporting it for years, and have receipts were to start a "class action" law suit against 3ABN to recover misused funding. Misrepresentation of funds gathered for projects that never materialized?!?!i.e. "The Sanctuary Project", and to "refund seven times the amoubt of each receipt or cancelled check"??!!

WOW!

I had thought it was "four-fold".... but even that would be enough to call forth a WOW! were it to happen. But of course it can't. There has been so much that has been wasted that it would be impossible to even return the original amount that had been intended for a specific work.

But as to the "class action suit" that you mention..... Unfortunately, with the laws being what they are regarding the use of solicited funds, there is no way that this could happen. Very early on I asked a friend of mine who is a teacher of "criminal justice" about this, and his response was that the legal requirements were that if only 10% of the funds solicited were used for the purpose stated, they were within the law. But recently I was commenting on this to another friend who is much more involved in financial matters, being in the public accountant business, and his response was that actually it was not that high.... the requirements are more like 3 to 4 percent.

And we wonder why the "Televangelism" field is so popular and why the Televangelists are so wealthy?

Now I don't think that as Adventists we would consider this to be an ethically acceptable percentage of our funds to be used for the purpose for which it is solicited ..... just think of the outcry that we are hearing from many about the percentage of tithes and offerings that are used for overhead in our own church conference system. But because it is not legally illegal, we have to take this information to the "court of public opinion" ... or rather of church opinion.... rather than expecting it to be righted in the courts of the land.

Now if Danny has moved beyond mere "missappropriation of funds" to handling monies in ways that are illegal (and those who know say this is true), then that is a different story, and there are those who are very interested in persuing that angle..... and we wait patiently for those wheels to grind..... at the same time that we inform others as much as is appropriate about these matters.

from what I understand about t=some of the activities reported to us here, there may be a need for some "time out" in "lockup".

As far as what 3ABN has done to Linda's last two years and to her "ministry", how do they expect to "UN-RING THAT BELL"?..

A very good question..... and don't ever forget that Linda is not the only one who has been robbed of her "last two years". There are others who have also been affected adversely .... some for much longer than two years.... and some for whom it is even more impossible to "unring the bell".
Linda must always stay a focus, but she should also be seen as symbol for those others whose pain is too private and too deep to even be exposed for the purpose of giving them comfort and sympathy.